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Thread: California winery fined $115,000 for using volunteers; put out of business

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    While I think the state of California is full of $#@! and this is complete and utter crap I think there's an easy way out of this. If for-profit-corporations can't have volunteers and these people want to gain experience, let them pay a couple bucks for a course. Problem solved.

    Although.... There's probably laws against that, certificates you need, permissions and bowing to the king. No way I'd ever live there, even though the climate and scenery are most amazing.
    Minimum wage laws would probably prohibit that from being done.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    This does not make sense unless, of course, you're a liberal troll posing as a doofus libertarian. Your trolling reminds me of the dope in the article who said that businesses cutting corners is libertarianism.
    No, it makes perfect sense if you're somebody who doesn't want government or doesn't believe employees have a right to be protected from being screwed. As I said, there's nothing in the Constitution that protects employees. Businesses cutting corners is not libertarianism, but libertarianism and capitalism gives businesses the maximum freedom to cut corners, reduce costs, and screw employees, none of which are crimes.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Every law has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean the net result of it is negative. It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.

  5. #64
    More to this story to come...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    ...libertarianism and capitalism gives businesses the maximum freedom to...screw employees...

    The article cites rising worker abuse through temp agencies, contract work, franchises, etc. This freedom to abuse increases despite government being larger than ever. There's no libertarianism in sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  8. #66
    dupe
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    The article cites rising worker abuse through temp agencies, contract work, franchises, etc. This freedom to abuse increases despite government being larger than ever. There's no libertarianism in sight.
    I disagree that this freedom has increased with government increasing.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    I disagree that this freedom has increased with government increasing.

    Government has not increased? More workers are not being abused?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Government has not increased? More workers are not being abused?
    Government has increased, but I don't believe more workers are being abused (in proportion to population).

  12. #70
    How does CA graduate anyone from college which requires an internship/observation esp. medical field majors? Oh, I bet they have some 'exemption'... CA, IL, and NY are complete & utter cesspools. Give them some more time and I'm sure they'll be right there with their North Korean and petty dictator brethren in Africa. Ain't no thang better than being a slave (all these states have ridiculous population numbers...what buffoons).
    School of Salamanca - School of Austrian Economics - Liberty, Private Property, Free-Markets, Voluntaryist, Agorist. le monde va de lui męme

    "No man hath power over my rights and liberties, and I over no mans [sic]."

    What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.

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    An Arrow Against all Tyrants - Richard Overton vis. 1646 (Required reading!)

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    There is no justification for preventing an exchange of experience for labor. There is only enmity and jealously, and enforcement of the confiscation of wealth. This case is such an obvious move against freedom of association.
    If Theye cannot control it, directly or otherwise, they hate it. If Theye hate it, they work tirelessly to gain control. If Theye cannot, they destroy it, and that they can always do because they have guns, the will to use them, and they have impunity in their back pockets because we give it to them.

    All we ever do is fight the House by House rules and that is why we will never win.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by XNavyNuke View Post
    A "feel good" news story from last year must have put the small vineyard on some Revenuer's radar.
    I have it on good authority that this became an issue after one of the volunteers was injured on-site. All of her medical expenses were paid for by the winery, but apparently she choose to pursue every avenue to get more money from the accident. That included her going to the State and inquiring about all of the possibilities for injury or disability payments.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I have it on good authority that this became an issue after one of the volunteers was injured on-site. All of her medical expenses were paid for by the winery, but apparently she choose to pursue every avenue to get more money from the accident. That included her going to the State and inquiring about all of the possibilities for injury or disability payments.
    smdh

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I have it on good authority that this became an issue after one of the volunteers was injured on-site. All of her medical expenses were paid for by the winery, but apparently she choose to pursue every avenue to get more money from the accident. That included her going to the State and inquiring about all of the possibilities for injury or disability payments.
    Never $#@!ing fails...should have figured that.

    Nice work, unknown $#@! broad, nice work.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by aGameOfThrones View Post
    I'm waiting for the comic issue where Lex Luther sues the Daily Planet for being saved by Superman. His pro bono volunteer work stopped the massive globe on top of the Daily Planet's building from falling off and causing catastrophic property damage and lost lives. As a for-profit corporation the Daily Planet did not pay for this help and was shut down immediately, giving rise to the Daily Lex propganda newspaper.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    Exactly. How and why that goofball is still invited on this forum is pretty amazing. I would have fired him from an e-cannon a longtime ago.
    mehh, its pretty funny to see his/her posts. I hope they keep him/her.

  20. #77


    These people are NOT volunteers helping our brewery build riddling racks. Seriously.
    The more prohibitions you have,
    the less virtuous people will be.
    The more weapons you have,
    the less secure people will be.
    The more subsidies you have,
    the less self-reliant people will be.

    Therefore the Master says:
    I let go of the law,
    and people become honest.
    I let go of economics,
    and people become prosperous.
    I let go of religion,
    and people become serene.
    I let go of all desire for the common good,
    and the good becomes common as grass.

    -Tao Te Ching, Section 57

  21. #78
    I spoke to several local winemakers about this case. Their reactions were mixed. Most were clear that they didn't want to be quoted "on the record". That would speak to the fear of the state that exists. Once you get on their radar for anything, you can be targeted for retribution.

    One winemaker expressed a great deal of anger with the winemaker who had to shutdown. The complaint? That he had brought the heat down on all of them.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #79
    The horror. Must have moar wine.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Root View Post
    The horror. Must have moar wine.
    But, is it "sanctioned" wine?

    I hate this, because so much of my education came from people being willing to give me a chance to learn, from them. Most of the times I got paid something, but sometimes not. But, the experience of working with people who knew, only rocketed me from "not knowing" to "knowing" and then "growing" even more beyond what they showed me. I am so thankful for those that have added to my knowledge and wisdom. It is worth much more, now, to me than the money that I made and paid (to government and to feed my stomach and passions) over the years.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    People should just show up and work still. What a great story having police arrest volunteer workers....
    The deserve a living wage of $15 an hour! This family was exploiting the poor to make drugs and should be jailed for life!
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I spoke to several local winemakers about this case. Their reactions were mixed. Most were clear that they didn't want to be quoted "on the record". That would speak to the fear of the state that exists. Once you get on their radar for anything, you can be targeted for retribution.
    Land of the free, FTW...

    One winemaker expressed a great deal of anger with the winemaker who had to shutdown. The complaint? That he had brought the heat down on all of them.
    ...home of the brave.

    Sheesh.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by aGameOfThrones View Post
    .


    teacher and apprentice not welcome here.
    Yep. Had the winery charged the volunteers tuition it would have been perfectly okay. Of course that would have meant an exchange of money which would have meant an opportunity to collect taxes. And maybe some people would have taken out student loans to learn the winery business. There's an opportunity for banksters to charge interest.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/bu...age-theft.html

    Oops, didn't fit in with the Paulite talking point.
    Actually in didn't fit in this thread dufus. Employers not paying promised wages is a violation of NAP and from a minarchist viewpoint enforcing NAP is a legit function of government. The government forcing people to pay a certain wage or any wage is the government violating people's rights to contract for themselves.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post


    These people are NOT volunteers helping our brewery build riddling racks. Seriously.
    Give them some free beer.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Xar View Post
    WTF!! You can't be that ignorant, you just can't.
    Certainly he's not, his goal is achieved in each thread. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

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