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Thread: The angels that visited Abraham

  1. #1

    The angels that visited Abraham

    Genesis 18 talks about "three men" that come to visit Abraham to tell him that he will have a son and that Sodom will be destroyed. One of the men is identified as the Lord. The other two men leave and go to Sodom. Chapter 19 clearly identifies these other two as angels. Back to chapter 18, Abraham has his famous discussion with the Lord where he pleads for Sodom and asks how many good men would need to be in the city for it to be spared. But how is Abraham able to talk face to face with God? God plainly told Moses "No man may see my face and live." So the only way God could talk directly to Abraham is to shroud His true form. Now some may say "But of course! He took human form!" Well....He certainly LOOKED human. But a key belief of Christianity is that God didn't actually take true human form until His incarnation through Mary. So what form was He in? The same form that the angels He was with were in!

    Fast forward to Jacob. Genesis 32:22-32 describes a physical wrestling match between Jacob and some other being. We know it was physical because it ended when Jacob's hip was dislocated. Jacob was given the name Israel which means "He who wrestles with God". Hosea 12 briefly describes the incident but uses the term "angel". Jacob called the place Peniel because he said "I have seen God's face and lived". But again, a man cannot see God's face and live. God has to shroud His face. Hosea described the shroud as being an angel.

    Fast forward to Joshua. I Joshua 5 he saw a soldier and asked "Are you friend or foe"? The soldier said "Neither. But I am the captain of the Lord's host." Joshua took off his shoes and worshiped this captain. Who are the Lord's host? Who leads them?

    Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
    If Schifference 9 25 14 talked about the angel that appeared to him and told him to.............. Most people would think Schifference was nuts!

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    If Schifference 9 25 14 talked about the angel that appeared to him and told him to.............. Most people would think Schifference was nuts!
    If you had had a conversation with a such a powerful spiritual being,, why would you care what men thought?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    If you had had a conversation with a such a powerful spiritual being,, why would you care what men thought?
    Beside the point. The point is, why are they believed? The people that tell such stories might not care what others think, or maybe they do since they are trying to exalt their position in life.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Beside the point. The point is, why are they believed? The people that tell such stories might not care what others think, or maybe they do since they are trying to exalt their position in life.
    In the case of accounts of angels in the Bible, the fact that Jesus rose from the dead is an important factor.

  7. #6
    I've often wondered about the mysterious and curious angel involvement in the near murder (sacrifice) of Isaac. Seems like a really sick and twisted test of a father's devotion to God.

    And then there is Lott, offering his daughters to appease the horny mob, instead of the demanded visiting angels.

    Screwy times for screwy folks.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 09-25-2014 at 08:10 AM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Beside the point. The point is, why are they believed? The people that tell such stories might not care what others think, or maybe they do since they are trying to exalt their position in life.
    Others see them as well sometimes.
    Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was circling the city. And his servant said to him, "Alas, my master! What shall we do?" So he answered, "Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them." Then Elisha prayed and said, "O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." And the LORD opened the servant's eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.…
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Beside the point. The point is, why are they believed? The people that tell such stories might not care what others think, or maybe they do since they are trying to exalt their position in life.
    Because many of us have had our own supernatural encounter of some kind or another? Here is mine. I have twin boys. When they were toddlers one was always running off and one always stayed close to us. I dreamed that the one that stayed close to us was crossing the street and got hit by a car and there was nothing I could do about it. I told my then wife and we began special prayer every day for his protection. A few months later at a church picnic I was across a field and my son was running to me. There was a worn path in the grass that cars would drive on to the picnic area. As he was crossing, a college student came driving in way too fast. I was too far away to get to him and all I could do was pray. The car stopped just a few feet from him. Now you can believe me or not believe me. But this story hasn't exalted my position in life.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Because many of us have had our own supernatural encounter of some kind or another? Here is mine. I have twin boys. When they were toddlers one was always running off and one always stayed close to us. I dreamed that the one that stayed close to us was crossing the street and got hit by a car and there was nothing I could do about it. I told my then wife and we began special prayer every day for his protection. A few months later at a church picnic I was across a field and my son was running to me. There was a worn path in the grass that cars would drive on to the picnic area. As he was crossing, a college student came driving in way too fast. I was too far away to get to him and all I could do was pray. The car stopped just a few feet from him. Now you can believe me or not believe me. But this story hasn't exalted my position in life.
    I believe you.

    I had that experience myself. When I was about 10 a car came to a dead non-screeching halt in front of me, I could almost touch it with my stomach or elbow when it stopped.

    I ran across the street, when in my 20's, just just behind a van. When I cleared the rear of the van a car was coming in the other direction straight at me almost within touching distance. I was swept back to where I started before the road, face toward the pavement and hands down, no gravel or scrape marks. Just like the wind swiftly but gently set me down.

    I was hitchhiking from Morgan City LA to Missouri, also in my 20's, and could not get a ride all night once I got to Mississippi. The next morning, people would ride by and yell "You better be outta here by dark, you long haired ni**er!". (I'm pretty dark in the summer and I had really long hair at the time, and now too). I walked fast, put out my thumb but couldn't get a ride all day. Close to evening, I looked up and I said, "God, if you will get me out of here and home to my wife, I will search to find out what it is that you want from me.". A few minutes later, a Cadillac picked me up, with a young black man driving and an old white grayed haired man in the passenger seat. I hadn't slept all night, so I dosed off pretty soon. But, I overheard the young black man ask the old grayed haired man, "Do you think he will be alright?", the old man said, "Yes, he will be fine"...then the old man said, "Wake up, we will drop you off at the top of this exit, walk across and someone will pick you up directly." I did and they did, pick me up immediately after I arrived to the other side, after no rides all night and day. They guy that picked me up said, "What are doing here? You shouldn't be here, it's almost dark, I'm taking you to Jackson City and you will get a ride out of here". And I did. Two guys picked me up. They were headed to Knoxville via Memphis to pick one of their brothers from the pen who was getting out. They asked if I would drive to Memphis and let them get catch zzz's. I said, "sure", so they stopped and bought me a six pack of Budweiser and a pint of whiskey and then jumped in the back seat a slept. We got to Memphis and I woke them up and got out. I was too tired and drunk, so I got under an overpass to sleep. I did have a thin blanket in my roll and a blue jean jacket on, but it snowed that night. I woke up, the first time the next morning, and couldn't feel my feet, the second time I couldn't feel anything below my neck. I almost dosed off again..I was groggy, but I told myself, you won't wake up again if you dose again. So, I tossed my head side to side, until I could feel my shoulders, then I used my should too, until I could feel more. Eventually I could feel my body again down to my knees. I was finally able to get up and walk on my knees and then onto my feet, although I still couldn't feel anything below my knees. I made it across to a gas station that was on the access road next to the freeway. I sat there for an hour or so, shivering every time a customer opened the door. I did make it home. I found some cooked chicken in the fridge and ate it, pulled off my army boots and found that the nails had worked through in the heel had torn my heel up. I went to bed. I woke up to my wife giving me a shotgun, and there were lots of friends there...I just wanted to talk. About 8 weeks later we were separated and then divorced.

    I've had a lot of experiences, more than I will tell now, and I did try to search and find what HE wanted from me. And, whoever HE is, or THEY, I'm usually taken care of but also provoked. I once asked them/he "Who are you and what do you want with me", after something occurred that should not have. It was then that I was introduced to the idea that my "Christianity" wasn't real, the whole thing wasn't real. I began to see the discrepancies in "The Word" and the fallacies of the stories as compared to one another. Like, for instance, why "not Hagar but Lea"?

    Then, I ended up....here.
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 10-01-2014 at 10:18 PM.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  12. #10
    I'm not a parent, admittedly, but if I were one, I would imagine nightmares about your child being hit by a car wouldn't be too uncommon.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    I'm not a parent, admittedly, but if I were one, I would imagine nightmares about your child being hit by a car wouldn't be too uncommon.
    All I can say is that I've never had that dream before or since. Also my cousin once begged my mom not to let us go to summer camp one year because she had a dream of a black boy drowning. (This particular camp was almost all white kids). I paid no attention, said that was crazy and I wanted to go to camp anyway. At the last minute a friend went with us just to go swimming for the day. He drowned. Sorry but I've seen too many stories like this for it all to be coincidence.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    Thanks for sharing. Sorry it ended up in divorce for you. As "not Hagar but Lea" did you mean "not Hagar but Sarah?" Lea's rival was Rachel.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    I believe you.

    I had that experience myself. When I was about 10 a car came to a dead non-screeching halt in front of me, I could almost touch it with my stomach or elbow when it stopped.

    I ran across the street, when in my 20's, just just behind a van. When I cleared the rear of the van a car was coming in the other direction straight at me almost within touching distance. I was swept back to where I started before the road, face toward the pavement and hands down, no gravel or scrape marks. Just like the wind swiftly but gently set me down.

    I was hitchhiking from Morgan City LA to Missouri, also in my 20's, and could not get a ride all night once I got to Mississippi. The next morning, people would ride by and yell "You better be outta here by dark, you long haired ni**er!". (I'm pretty dark in the summer and I had really long hair at the time, and now too). I walked fast, put out my thumb but couldn't get a ride all day. Close to evening, I looked up and I said, "God, if you will get me out of here and home to my wife, I will search to find out what it is that you want from me.". A few minutes later, a Cadillac picked me up, with a young black man driving and an old white grayed haired man in the passenger seat. I hadn't slept all night, so I dosed off pretty soon. But, I overheard the young black man ask the old grayed haired man, "Do you think he will be alright?", the old man said, "Yes, he will be fine"...then the old man said, "Wake up, we will drop you off at the top of this exit, walk across and someone will pick you up directly." I did and they did, pick me up immediately after I arrived to the other side, after no rides all night and day. They guy that picked me up said, "What are doing here? You shouldn't be here, it's almost dark, I'm taking you to Jackson City and you will get a ride out of here". And I did. Two guys picked me up. They were headed to Knoxville via Memphis to pick one of their brothers from the pen who was getting out. They asked if I would drive to Memphis and let them get catch zzz's. I said, "sure", so they stopped and bought me a six pack of Budweiser and a pint of whiskey and then jumped in the back seat a slept. We got to Memphis and I woke them up and got out. I was too tired and drunk, so I got under an overpass to sleep. I did have a thin blanket in my roll and a blue jean jacket on, but it snowed that night. I woke up, the first time the next morning, and couldn't feel my feet, the second time I couldn't feel anything below my neck. I almost dosed off again..I was groggy, but I told myself, you won't wake up again if you dose again. So, I tossed my head side to side, until I could feel my shoulders, then I used my should too, until I could feel more. Eventually I could feel my body again down to my knees. I was finally able to get up and walk on my knees and then onto my feet, although I still couldn't feel anything below my knees. I made it across to a gas station that was on the access road next to the freeway. I sat there for an hour or so, shivering every time a customer opened the door. I did make it home. I found some cooked chicken in the fridge and ate it, pulled off my army boots and found that the nails had worked through in the heel had torn my heel up. I went to bed. I woke up to my wife giving me a shotgun, and there were lots of friends there...I just wanted to talk. About 8 weeks later we were separated and then divorced.

    I've had a lot of experiences, more than I will tell now, and I did try to search and find what HE wanted from me. And, whoever HE is, or THEY, I'm usually taken care of but also provoked. I once asked them/he "Who are you and what do you want with me", after something occurred that should not have. It was then that I was introduced to the idea that my "Christianity" wasn't real, the whole thing wasn't real. I began to see the discrepancies in "The Word" and the fallacies of the stories as compared to one another. Like, for instance, why "not Hagar but Lea"?

    Then, I ended up....here.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #13
    @jmdrake,
    The story of Hagar and that of Lea(h), including the children but not just the children.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    @jmdrake,
    The story of Hagar and that of Lea(h), including the children but not just the children.
    Ah. Gotcha. Well you realize that Leah's story didn't turn out bad? Ultimately her son Judah is who the royal line was established through. And the priestly line was established through her son Levi.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Ah. Gotcha. Well you realize that Leah's story didn't turn out bad? Ultimately her son Judah is who the royal line was established through. And the priestly line was established through her son Levi.
    Strange, huh? But, Jacob put his hands on Ephraim and Manasseh.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Strange, huh? But, Jacob put his hands on Ephraim and Manasseh.
    Jacob put his hands on all of his children and grandchildren. The Ephraim and Manasseh story is significant for two reasons. One is that he didn't know about their existence until near the end of his life. The other is that Jacob actually accidentally blessed Ephraim, the younger, over Manasseh. (See: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...48&version=KJV) I heard one pastor state that this was God's way of showing to Jacob what would have happened had he and his mother not tricked his father into giving him the blessing meant for his brother.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    I'm not a parent, admittedly, but if I were one, I would imagine nightmares about your child being hit by a car wouldn't be too uncommon.
    I have a 4 yr old and a 6 yr old. I've never had that kind of dream.
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Because many of us have had our own supernatural encounter of some kind or another? Here is mine. I have twin boys. When they were toddlers one was always running off and one always stayed close to us. I dreamed that the one that stayed close to us was crossing the street and got hit by a car and there was nothing I could do about it. I told my then wife and we began special prayer every day for his protection. A few months later at a church picnic I was across a field and my son was running to me. There was a worn path in the grass that cars would drive on to the picnic area. As he was crossing, a college student came driving in way too fast. I was too far away to get to him and all I could do was pray. The car stopped just a few feet from him. Now you can believe me or not believe me. But this story hasn't exalted my position in life.
    supernatural isn't always from God but satan. Second of all- that doesn't prove a thing. Theres a thing on a car called brakes and a thing on the driver called eyes.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    supernatural isn't always from God but satan. Second of all- that doesn't prove a thing. Theres a thing on a car called brakes and a thing on the driver called eyes.
    LOL. Whatever Kevin. I pray God will someday remove the hate from your heart.

    Edit: And nothing from Satan has the effect of causing you to pray. Also just because something has a natural explanation doesn't mean that the Spirit of God was not involved. Sometimes storms abruptly stop. Sometimes fish actually do swallow shiny objects like coins. Sometimes fish are swimming on one side of a boat and not the other.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 10-02-2014 at 03:20 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #20
    One other thing Kevin. Attributing to Satan the works of the Holy Spirit is exactly what the Pharisees were doing when Jesus warned them against committing the unpardonable sin. Attack me all you want. But be careful about attacking the work of the Holy Spirit. Just like Jesus said "Satan wouldn't cast out Satan" because that would be counter productive, Satan wouldn't try to get Christians to pray because that would also be counterproductive.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    One other thing Kevin. Attributing to Satan the works of the Holy Spirit is exactly what the Pharisees were doing when Jesus warned them against committing the unpardonable sin. Attack me all you want. But be careful about attacking the work of the Holy Spirit. Just like Jesus said "Satan wouldn't cast out Satan" because that would be counter productive, Satan wouldn't try to get Christians to pray because that would also be counterproductive.
    You don't even know what blasphemy is, lol.... First off it cannot be commited by Believers. Second of blasphemy was only possible during Jesus' Ministry when unbelievers were accusing Him of using Satantic powers to deceive. You are clueless.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  25. #22
    No one today will have the opportunity to witness Jesus performing miracles in person (2 Corinthians 5:16). Second, there is no other mention of the sin in any biblical passage written after the resurrection of Christ. None of the inspired New Testament writers refers to the sin in any epistle or in the book of Acts, and none offers warnings to new converts about avoiding the sin post-Pentecost.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    You don't even know what blasphemy is, lol.... First off it cannot be commited by Believers. Second of blasphemy was only possible during Jesus' Ministry when unbelievers were accusing Him of using Satantic powers to deceive. You are clueless.
    No. The clueless one is you. Jesus didn't say the Pharisees were blaspheming Him. He made it clear that they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So that kind of blasphemy is the same whether the Holy Spirit was working through Him or was/is working through someone else. And I don't know if you are a believer or not. You could just be claiming to be one. You could be self deceived. Note I didn't say you were necessarily a blasphemer, just to be careful.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    No. The clueless one is you. Jesus didn't say the Pharisees were blaspheming Him. He made it clear that they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So that kind of blasphemy is the same whether the Holy Spirit was working through Him or was/is working through someone else. And I don't know if you are a believer or not. You could just be claiming to be one. You could be self deceived. Note I didn't say you were necessarily a blasphemer, just to be careful.
    I am one and because I have the Holy Spirit I doubt I could blaspheme Him
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.



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  29. #25
    This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. As a result, this particular incidence of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth—He is seated at the right hand of God. No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The closest example today would be attributing the miracle of a redeemed person’s changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    No. The clueless one is you. Jesus didn't say the Pharisees were blaspheming Him. He made it clear that they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So that kind of blasphemy is the same whether the Holy Spirit was working through Him or was/is working through someone else. And I don't know if you are a believer or not. You could just be claiming to be one. You could be self deceived. Note I didn't say you were necessarily a blasphemer, just to be careful.

    n
    o, its only through Jesus. see my link.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. As a result, this particular incidence of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today.
    LOL. Okay. So you just make up stuff as you go along or find other people who have already made it up. Again, Jesus made it clear that the blasphemy was not against Him but the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is on earth today. You can still blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    o, its only through Jesus. see my link.
    Just because you have a link that agrees that 2 + 2 = 7 doesn't make it so.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    LOL. Okay. So you just make up stuff as you go along or find other people who have already made it up. Again, Jesus made it clear that the blasphemy was not against Him but the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is on earth today. You can still blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
    Believers cannot.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    Believers cannot.
    Well good for you. That is as long are you are not one of those self deceived "believers" erowe1 was talking about. But more importantly, someone who knows the Bible and understands God and the nature of spiritual warfare would know that Satan will not do something to cause Christians to pray.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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