http://time.com/3403976/rangel-draft-tax/
Charlie is again afoot!
its the topic on Fox news Political insiders, now
Read his reasons which make sense.
While I am optimistic about our Commander-in-Chief’s strategy to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, I voted against the Continuing Appropriations Resolution 2015 that would grant the President the authority to provide funds to train and arm Syrian rebels against the enemy. I opposed the amendment because I strongly believe amassing additional debt to go to war should involve all of America debating the matter. That is why I have called for levying a war tax in addition to bringing back the military draft. Both the war surcharge and conscription will give everyone in America a real stake in any decision on going to war, and compel the public to think twice before they make a commitment to send their loved ones into harm’s way.
Well , I will not have to pay a war tax , because nobody declares war. I would though , check off a war tax deduction of my present taxes if it was available .
Which is the idea. If people see a direct tax to pay for war or face the risks of themselves or sons or daughters of having to go fight it, they will not be as quick to support military actions. If their taxes don't go up and just kids who "want to" (the "volunteer army") they don't care nearly as much.
Not new thinking. But...there are those already opposed to these wars that might face sending their kids, and Canada might not take them easily, this time, to escape. It's crap, just like before.
"When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law
"nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence
"I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin
Originally Posted by Zippyjuan
You left out the rest of what he said:
...everyone should share the sacrifices instead of the small few who are already carrying that burden.I have been calling for the reinstatement of the draft because our military personnel and their families bear a tremendous cost...
...we should all come together in defense of our nation, not just one percent of America.
ISIS militants are a real threat.They [ISIS] have already killed two American journalists. [LOL]We must share the burden in diminishing their impact to our national security.Containing their spread will help America and our allies to feel safe whether at home or abroad.
In other words: We're running out of dumbasses. With my proposal--you too, can be a loser!
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
If you want the war taxes, then you must want the war.
[QUOTE=NorthCarolinaLiberty;5654595]You left out the rest of what he said:
Good Time Charlie
hoping for tax increases and slavery for all .
I do think that forcing the people to actually pay for a war would prevent war.
Maybe , but we do not have wars .
War financing doesn't actually work that way.
Government financing as a whole doesn't work that way. Joe watching CNN report that we launched 500 tomahawks at country XYZ doesn't feel like he is going to have to pay the $2 billion that the government just spent in an hour. If he did, his opinion on military intervention might change.
Of course they make sense to you progs. Slavers gonna slave.
Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
--Albert J. Nock
I've been an advocate for this for years. Course we can't have "get out of jail cards" for the rich and connected for either the tax or the draft. If we all had to throw in some money to fight we'd be a heck of a lot less likley to do so.
Just imagine tell in all those Red kookaid folks that we're going to start deducting $250 from their social security check to fight ISIS. We'd be done fighting today. Its way to easy to go to war when we don't feel any pain or loss of "our" family members.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/07/a...on-is-slavery/
https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/...-conscription/The draft is a form of slavery. There is no way around it. Compelling a person to work for the state is involuntary servitude. Forcing a person to fight, kill, and possibly die in a war — and threatening resisters with imprisonment and deserting conscripts with death — is a particularly immoral brand of enslavement, and it is murder for all conscripts who do not survive the war.
[...]
The draft is among the greatest of all crimes the modern western state inflicts upon “its” own people. For all of one’s liberty to be stolen, to have to serve the state even at the cost of one’s own life, is a far greater injustice to face than a tax increase or a new burdensome regulation — as horrible as the latter policies are to one’s liberty and property. If someone cannot own himself, all other property rights become moot. When his liberty is seized for the purpose of killing, wretched insult and injury are only added to the grave injustice of compelled labor.
Mr. Speaker, I hope my colleagues who believe that the current war on terrorism justifies violating the liberty of millions of young men by reinstating a military draft will consider the eloquent argument against conscription in the attached speech by Daniel Webster. Then-representative Webster delivered his remarks on the floor of the House in opposition to a proposal to institute a draft during the War of 1812. Webster’s speech remains one of the best statements of the Constitutional and moral case against conscription.
Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
--Albert J. Nock
The income tax has ALWAYS been a war tax.
Never noticed it stopping any wars.
The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.
"Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron
"Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton
So slavers should stick to slaving in secret? Or should they have to operate with great big neon signs?
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
That's a modern change from the historical standard, to fund regular operations of government by printing money. In contrast, war funding is almost always done by printing money. Inflation is directly correlated with being at war for the entirety of US history prior to the Vietnam War. If we are to read the inflation charts in the same way, we have been continuously at war since 1964.
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
--Albert J. Nock
I'm obviously nowhere near a prog. It does "make sense" in that it might work utilitarian wise (in other words, it might achieve the intended goal of making the electorate more anti-war). But really, that's like saying that slavery is morally justified even if there's a utilitarian gain to be made. It isn't.
Two peas in a pod showing once again their true colors.
Taxes already go to war fighting. This is just calling for more taxes, more penalties for the productive.
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The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
I have a girlfriend (who is also a vet) say something once that I found intriguing. She said that reinstating the draft was the only way to wake the people up to pay attention to what the government was actually doing. I am not pro tax or pro draft, but what she said was definitely intriguing.
Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
~ George Washington
She is almost certainly correct. That's why Vietnam had as much protest as it did, and why Iraq had as little as it did. That said, I still think that everyone who supports the draft is a scumbag, just like I think everyone who supports enslaving people is a scumbag. Its really the same thing.
Reinstating the draft to include ALL voters, maybe. Just drafting kids doesn't hurt enough fast enough.
The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.
"Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron
"Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton
Stop Suggesting Conscription As the Fix for American Militarism
http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/05/09/t...oesnt-end-war/
This column contains the same sentiments about the draft advocated by Gen. McChrystal, Ricks, and (incessantly) Congressman Rangel. Namely, if everyone, black white rich poor (now) men women, suffered the effects of war together, people would stop fighting them so damned often. (Sirota even uses Dwight Elliott Stone, the last man forced into Vietnam, to cement his case that the draft should menace everyone. Poor Stone apparently grew to embrace this idea years after trying desperately to evade conscription.)
The idea that the draft would stop perpetual war is tempting to consider for a minute. After all, wasn’t it that sword of Damocles hanging over every middle class kid that finally made Americans say enough was enough during Vietnam? Isn’t it worth a try?
No. Because you don’t end mass-murder by enslaving enough people to maybe, eventually, piss off the masses.
[...]
Experiment. The implication that not enslaving men aged 19-26 is a fluke, tried, and now to be discarded. Never mind Richard Nixon, or the military, or anyone else’s motives in lifting the threat of military service off of the general population in order to make war “an abstraction.” Consider the definition of the draft — the mandate that you serve the government in the most servile fashion. You are more directly the hand of the state than in any other job.
And you may die. In Vietnam, 30 percent of the men killed were drafted (around 17,000 people). Countless men also signed up knowing they were going to be forced into the armed forces, in order to pick the least loathsome choice of branch. To say nothing of 2 million Vietnamese killed during the war, look how many American men were sacrificed and how many — men and women, if Rangel had his way — would it take next time in order to stop the next war?
Ostensibly Sirota’s motivations for wanting a draft are good; the end of the worst thing in the world. But they’re twisted. Instead of starving the beast of militarism he wants to shove a few thousand people down its throat until it (hopefully) chokes.
Would it work? It’s possible. But it didn’t work during the Civil War, World War I, World War II, Korea, or Vietnam. Or, it didn’t work in time for scores upon scores of thousand of men. What about them? Isn’t preventing their enslavement and slaughter also a part of opposing war?
If people suggesting a return to conscription are serious about ending war and all its miseries, they will stop spinning their wheels on bull$#@! columns like Sirota’s; stop coyly suggesting unpopular plans that make them sound grave and determined; and they will start opposing war, period.
Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
--Albert J. Nock
Better to have the war go to the people as a public yes/no vote and draft all of the yes votes rather than draft people that are already against the war.
I'd actually be OK with this. It wouldn't be enslavement at that point, since people would be committing by voting "yes".
I think it's good. Draft everyone and raise taxes 200%. Maybe then the sheeple will awake. Prob not..
Ever since taxes were forced upon, war has been a continuance. Make it a 50% tax on top of what's stolen... let's see if of the useful idiots feel the pain, because hammering home logic with a ballpeen hammer doesn't sink into their coconuts.
Yeah, start with Lawyers, Bankers, & Politicians/Government slugs.
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