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Thread: There will be no 'collapse'

  1. #1
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    There will be no 'collapse'

    After reading articles from the past, and investigating papers on Mises, the thought of a collapse seems incorrect.
    There are articles from forty years ago lamenting about the ballooning federal deficits, rising prices, etc. But all of this is based on a fiat currency. Something not real. So why would it matter. That the deficit is six fauxdollars or six trillion fauxdollars; how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    No I see this future:
    Faux Assets from those who have the power to create fiat dollars, accumulating more and more hard assets as well as the rights of future hard assets. With the end games being not slavery, but indebted servitude. Education loans, health rationing, housing subsidies; similar to China. There will be a loss of private property, and a loss of liberty, mostly for Americans, as Europeans already lost most of these basic human rights, but no collapse. No more autos - mass transit, or rented autos. No more 'homes', property taxes and mortgages; with your property seized for medical costs. Little control over retirement, disposable income.

    But no collapse.



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  3. #2
    One would almost think you have faith that Bernanke and his ilk know what the hell they're doing.

    I think you described their intended game plan perfectly. But when they hiked that ball, I strongly suspect they did not yet realize that China and Russia didn't line up on the other side of the line of scrimmage just for show.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  4. #3
    How do you not consider the following a collapse of American society?

    "With the end games being not slavery, but indebted servitude. Education loans, health rationing, housing subsidies; similar to China. There will be a loss of private property, and a loss of liberty, mostly for Americans, as Europeans already lost most of these basic human rights, but no collapse"
    Last edited by Seraphim; 09-21-2014 at 03:43 PM.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    How do you not condering the following a collapse of American society?
    I'm sure he does, as we all do. But some people won't call it that until CNN calls it that. And CNN will never so much as mention the fact.

    Ted Turner is paid well to be a 'team player'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    How do you not condering the following a collapse of American society?

    "With the end games being not slavery, but indebted servitude. Education loans, health rationing, housing subsidies; similar to China. There will be a loss of private property, and a loss of liberty, mostly for Americans, as Europeans already lost most of these basic human rights, but no collapse"
    I was thinking exactly that. That image represents precisely in many ways one of my visions of a collapsed society.

  7. #6
    Few ever thought it would go full-on Mad Max collapse. It's a long slow slide to third-world banana republic status. The dollar WILL cease to be the global currency sooner than later. Everything in the meantime is meant to spend it while it's still worth something and to manage the slow decline so large scale riots don't break out.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LibForestPaul View Post
    After reading articles from the past, and investigating papers on Mises, the thought of a collapse seems incorrect.
    There are articles from forty years ago lamenting about the ballooning federal deficits, rising prices, etc. But all of this is based on a fiat currency. Something not real. So why would it matter. That the deficit is six fauxdollars or six trillion fauxdollars; how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    No I see this future:
    Faux Assets from those who have the power to create fiat dollars, accumulating more and more hard assets as well as the rights of future hard assets. With the end games being not slavery, but indebted servitude. Education loans, health rationing, housing subsidies; similar to China. There will be a loss of private property, and a loss of liberty, mostly for Americans, as Europeans already lost most of these basic human rights, but no collapse. No more autos - mass transit, or rented autos. No more 'homes', property taxes and mortgages; with your property seized for medical costs. Little control over retirement, disposable income.

    But no collapse.
    While a shock or large collapse is always in the cards, I think I agree with you for the most part. Another VERY VERY important aspect is that the economy is continually improving and placing downward pressure on prices. This helps significantly drowned out the affects of massive inflation for most. The real thing to think about is what would our economy look like without the massive deficits, inflation, and regulation. Where would our economy be if instead of borrowing 8 trillion under Obama, we invested that money in real business? Where would we be if the money supply was kept dead constant?

    My guess is that if the economy was not being continually destroyed on those 3 factors; we would all be living like millionaires. The most anyone would have to work to provide for a family would be two days. There would be so much wealth that most people would probably focus on travel, leisure, and relaxation pursuits.

    The real amazing thing I think is that despite everything the elite have done to destroy the economy, we still are able to thrive and in general increase our standard of living.

  9. #8
    The moment BRICS decides to abandon the dollar, we will have a collapse.

    The moment China decides to top taking on new US debt, we will have a collapse.

    The moment the international secession movement in Europe has a victory (Scotland was close call, next comes Italy, Spain, etc), the loss of income will be fatal to the EU, and we will have a collapse.

    The moment the longest period of low interest rates in history ends, asset deflation will result, the markets will pop with the bubble and we will have a collapse.

    The moment the current bank debt bubble (which is much worse than the red ink situation of 2008) bursts, we will have a collapse.

    There are too many leaks in the dam to ignore the calamity that is about to come down. Some say the dam has already been bursting, but the damage is being held under artificial control for the moment. When that moment passes, look out.
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 09-21-2014 at 08:21 PM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    The moment BRICS decides to abandon the dollar, their currencies will collapse.

    The moment China decides to top taking on new US debt, our trade deficit will collapse.

    The moment the longest period of low interest rates in history ends, incentives for consumer saving and investment will result, and consumer dollars will replace Fed dollars.
    Fixed those for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    The moment the international secession movement in Europe has a victory (Scotland was close call, next comes Italy, Spain, etc), the loss of income will be fatal to the EU, and we will have a collapse.
    If EU countries leave the EU, it will be a economic net positive for the US, because those countries will have less incentive to trade with the EU and deal in Euros and more incentives to trade with the US and deal in dollars.

    If EU countries secede from each other but remain part of the EU, then nothing of value has changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LibForestPaul View Post
    After reading articles from the past, and investigating papers on Mises, the thought of a collapse seems incorrect.
    There are articles from forty years ago lamenting about the ballooning federal deficits, rising prices, etc. But all of this is based on a fiat currency. Something not real. So why would it matter. That the deficit is six fauxdollars or six trillion fauxdollars; how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    No I see this future:
    Faux Assets from those who have the power to create fiat dollars, accumulating more and more hard assets as well as the rights of future hard assets. With the end games being not slavery, but indebted servitude. Education loans, health rationing, housing subsidies; similar to China. There will be a loss of private property, and a loss of liberty, mostly for Americans, as Europeans already lost most of these basic human rights, but no collapse. No more autos - mass transit, or rented autos. No more 'homes', property taxes and mortgages; with your property seized for medical costs. Little control over retirement, disposable income.

    But no collapse.
    you're not seeing the whole picture, listen to more Alex Jones

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    How do you not consider the following a collapse of American society?

    "With the end games being not slavery, but indebted servitude. Education loans, health rationing, housing subsidies; similar to China. There will be a loss of private property, and a loss of liberty, mostly for Americans, as Europeans already lost most of these basic human rights, but no collapse"
    because it would not be abrupt.

  14. #12
    They know what they are doing. They consider it day and night. They know manipulation as well as you know your favorite profession.

    But, there are those that don't know and are just climbing the ladder, reaping sellout rewards, etc...
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    If EU countries leave the EU, it will be a economic net positive for the US, because those countries will have less incentive to trade with the EU and deal in Euros and more incentives to trade with the US and deal in dollars.

    If EU countries secede from each other but remain part of the EU, then nothing of value has changed.
    Because of all the regions being economically interlinked or inter-invested, a collapse in another region leads to a collapse in the US. If countries leave the EU, they are not under obligation to participate in paying the debts, derivatives et al racked up by the EU or the central bankers, which will cause a financial collapse there, followed by a collapse here once those defaults impact our markets and institutions. There are too many global level leaks to avoid the global level collapse.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Because of all the regions being economically interlinked or inter-invested, a collapse in another region leads to a collapse in the US. If countries leave the EU, they are not under obligation to participate in paying the debts, derivatives et al racked up by the EU or the central bankers, which will cause a financial collapse there, followed by a collapse here once those defaults impact our markets and institutions. There are too many global level leaks to avoid the global level collapse.
    The debt problems in Europe are national, not EU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The debt problems in Europe are national, not EU.
    The debts are heavily enforced by the EU on behalf of the banks and neighboring countries who made them, as seen in the classic case of Greece. When it tried to deal with its 'national' debt problems via elections, the EU and the banks were intensely involved, and fought all attempts of the people to resolve the matter on their own. Wall Street and the European stock markets created the credit default swaps and other derivative instruments in the first place, so the whole continent is intertwined in the outcome of those debts.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/



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