OK I'm backing up the truck (Ag)

[GunnyFreedom]

Silver is way down so I'm loading up. I plan to get 100 oz. Before I pull the trigger I wanted to see if 1) anybody had any input on the 10oz APMEX Stackable IRA Approved Bars at $198.60 each and 2) if anybody has a better / cheaper source for about 100 oz of silver.

I do plan on getting 50 1 ounce Buffalo Bars unless someone points me to an insanely better deal.

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't much like how the 10oz bars LOOK, but I'm guessing they would be very easily sellable. Not very pretty, but certainly secure from shaving. Is "IRA Approved" the only real benefit? I don't really plan on putting them into an IRA. I guess I'm looking at that particular 10 oz because I think it would be easier to find a buyer when it came time to sell. But would it, really? It's not like it's marked for being "IRA Approved" so someone would have to know THAT particular bar to make it's security a selling point. I'm probably better with bars stamped "ISO" in terms of ease of resale. Hmm.

[mad cow]

JM Bullion has free shipping for any quantity and I have dealt with them many times without any problems or complaints.
They will keep you updated by email on the status of your order and they accept personal checks.
They currently have 12 different 10 troy ounce bars that beat that price,delivered to your front door.
http://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silv...ilver%20Prices

Here is a good website for keeping track of different PM dealers but figure in the shipping costs.
https://comparesilverprices.com

[presence]

I think it would be easier to find a buyer when it came time to sell

Simran has a hookup on silver jewlery, heavy chains etc at just over spot. Very reasonable to deal with. I sent him a pm with a link here.

[presence]

[11:48:46 PM] litepresence: u there?
[11:49:28 PM] litepresence: about 60 minutes ago one of the guys from RPF said he's looking for $2000 in silver bars/coins

[11:58:24 PM] litepresence: u stilll in the business but just dry atm?
[11:58:28 PM] Simran : still in business
[11:58:30 PM] Simran : just dry
[11:58:40 PM] Simran : my circumstance is work

[12:00:30 AM] Simran : Find a good refinery is all I can say
[12:00:34 AM] Simran : these online refiners
[12:00:40 AM] Simran : like APMEX
[12:00:47 AM] Simran : $#@!ing insane premiums
[12:01:01 AM] litepresence: how do you find a good refinery?
[12:01:17 AM] Simran : if he has people who buy silver like the We buy Golds and SIlver stores
[12:01:22 AM] Simran : ask them where the refinery is at
[12:01:28 AM] Simran : because that's who they are selling the scraps too
[12:01:40 AM] Simran : local refiners sell for spot
[12:01:50 AM] Simran : while corp type refineries have premiums
[12:01:57 AM] Simran : and even worse most have insane premiums
[12:02:18 AM] litepresence: good stuff
[12:02:27 AM] litepresence: so no chance of $2000 in glitter?
[12:02:38 AM] Simran : not really, but I'm trying to find ya a decent seller
[12:02:51 AM] Simran : actually the best way to actually get the $#@! way below spot is
[12:02:59 AM] Simran : buy scraps from local stores, eBay
[12:03:01 AM] Simran : etc
[12:03:10 AM] litepresence: hang sign in front yard "I buy gold"
[12:03:12 AM] Simran : and just pay a jeweler or refiner to turn it in a bar
[12:03:13 AM] Simran : yes
[12:03:15 AM] Simran : YES
[12:03:20 AM] Simran : eBay is really good though
[12:03:28 AM] Simran : especially if you eBay snipe
[12:03:47 AM] litepresence: what do you use to test silver and gold? Where do you get it?
[12:03:58 AM] Simran : you can buy the acid testers
[12:03:59 AM] Simran : pretty cheap
[12:04:12 AM] Simran : a nice magnet + some acid + a scratch pad is the best combo
[12:04:26 AM] Simran : those machines that test silver are 100% accurate as opposed to the acid
[12:04:31 AM] Simran : but they cost a $#@! load
[12:04:39 AM] Simran : the machines test the conductivity of the metal
[12:04:43 AM] Simran : and it can tell you the purity etc
[12:04:49 AM] Simran : without scratching the piece
[12:04:56 AM] Simran : but with acid you scratch the piece
[12:05:01 AM] Simran : and you get the purity
[12:05:17 AM] Simran : however it's just a how would I say
[12:05:26 AM] Simran : like when something just has a bad look however it makes no difference
[12:05:43 AM] Simran : anyways
[12:06:19 AM] Simran : best thing to do is just buy a load of scraps, especially below spot, and pay a jeweler or refiner to melt it for ya and turn it in a bullion... and if he wants to do that long term, he can learn to refine and melt the $#@! himself
[12:06:55 AM] litepresence: that's cheaper than buying bars?
[12:07:00 AM] Simran : yes
[12:07:05 AM] Simran : because bars you are buying at spot
[12:07:10 AM] Simran : + premium
[12:07:16 AM] Simran : if you buy scraps, you paying way below spot
[12:07:17 AM] Simran : PLUS
[12:07:20 AM] litepresence: how much under spot is 100oz of scrap?
[12:07:30 AM] Simran : even if you pay someone to turn it to a bar for ya
[12:07:50 AM] Simran : whatever you pay will still be a price below spot regardless
[12:07:53 AM] Simran : understand it kinda?
[12:08:37 AM] litepresence: so ebay 100oz of scrap, contact local "I buy gold", find where refiner is, have scrap turned bullion. = cheap silver
[12:08:48 AM] Simran : yes
[12:08:52 AM] Simran : here let me throw in some numbers
[12:09:05 AM] Simran : 100 oz of silver = $1786 TODAY
[12:09:17 AM] Simran : Today, 100 oz silver bar = $1851
[12:09:19 AM] Simran : BUY
[12:09:22 AM] Simran : *BUT
[12:10:08 AM] Simran : if you buy scraps, which will cost you anywhere between $893 - 1607 (50%-90% of spot, generally)
[12:10:23 AM] Simran : and you pay a jeweler or refiner to turn it into a bar
[12:10:47 AM] Simran : which would anywhere between $20-50(even $100 because maybe the jeweler is a scammer)
[12:10:53 AM] Simran : You pay where between
[12:11:05 AM] Simran : $913 - 1627
[12:11:06 AM] Simran : or
[12:11:15 AM] Simran : $943 - 1657
[12:11:16 AM] Simran : OR
[12:11:29 AM] Simran : $993 - 1707
[12:11:44 AM] Simran : which is still cheaper than $1786(Silver spot price)
[12:11:44 AM] Simran : or
[12:11:50 AM] Simran : a premade bar of $1851
[12:11:54 AM] litepresence: where do I get 50% silver scrap prices?
[12:12:04 AM] Simran : eBay, people who want to sell they're silver
[12:12:20 AM] Simran : those places that buy silver and gold, and pawn shops buy at
[12:12:29 AM] Simran : 40% - 65% of spot
[12:12:44 AM] Simran : but even if you buy the silver at 90% of spot, you still win
[12:12:55 AM] litepresence: very interesting
[12:13:05 AM] litepresence: can I quote you on all this at RPF?
[12:13:12 AM] Simran : sure
[12:13:15 AM] Simran : just clean it up
[12:13:21 AM] Simran : but yeah, it's the truth
[12:13:24 AM] litepresence:
[12:13:27 AM] Simran : also not to mention
[12:13:37 AM] Simran : jewelery is 92.5% pure(sterling silver)
[12:13:44 AM] Simran : so it' even cheaper
[12:13:53 AM] Simran : because you get 92.5% of spot price for the jewelery
[12:14:11 AM] Simran : and on top of pay 50-90% of that
[12:14:13 AM] Simran :
[12:14:23 AM] Simran : *on top of that
[12:14:32 AM] litepresence: what % after refining?
[12:14:45 AM] Simran : .999 pure
[12:14:53 AM] Simran : that's the point of refining
[12:15:07 AM] Simran : you refine the silver to pure and remove all the impurities
[12:15:22 AM] Simran : for example I'm paying only 60% of spot
[12:15:34 AM] Simran : someone brings me a PURE(.999) chain that weighs 10 grams
[12:16:24 AM] litepresence: *dramatic pause while simran works calculator*
[12:16:24 AM] Simran : Today spot price is $17.86 a troy ounce of pure silver
[12:16:38 AM] Simran : 31.1 grams in a troy ounce
[12:17:00 AM] Simran : 1 gram of pure silver = $0.57
[12:17:12 AM] Simran : (17.86 / 31.1) = $0.57
[12:17:21 AM] Simran : anyways, so let's say I'm paying 60% of spot
[12:17:39 AM] Simran : $0.57 * 0.6(60%) = $0.34
[12:17:49 AM] Simran : so I'm paying $0.34 a gram OF PURE SILVER
[12:18:08 AM] Simran : so I'd pay the person $3.4 for that 10 gram pure silver chain
[12:18:26 AM] Simran : BUT jewelry is typically impure, so silver has sterling silver, so since it isn't pure
[12:18:35 AM] Simran : it's 92.5% pure
[12:18:48 AM] Simran : so I want to pay a sterling silver price
[12:18:56 AM] Simran : $0.34 * 0.925 =
[12:19:00 AM] litepresence: so you lose 7.5% in weight during refining?
[12:19:19 AM] Simran : $0.3145
[12:19:27 AM] Simran : So you're paying $0.34 a gram of pure silver
[12:19:34 AM] Simran : BUT $0.3145 a gram of sterling
[12:19:37 AM] Simran : yes you lose weight
[12:19:42 AM] Simran : but it's not dramatic
[12:19:49 AM] Simran : you still win regardless
[12:20:14 AM] litepresence: thanks for silver insight
[12:20:25 AM] Simran : losing 7.4% of weight is nothing compared to losing half etc
[12:20:53 AM] Simran : so say even if you're paying 60% of pure silver price for sterling, you still win
[12:20:58 AM] Simran : just small tricks here and there
[12:21:23 AM] litepresence: gotta call it a night, split logs all day for firewood
[12:21:51 AM] Simran : ^^
[12:21:55 AM] Simran : but yeah
[12:21:59 AM] Simran : some good tips
[12:22:12 AM] Simran : people pay premiums because of the name
[12:22:25 AM] Simran : but imho, who cares about the name, it's only worth what it weighs in it's silver price
[12:22:45 AM] Simran : unless it's some really vintage or antique piece which has value based on history and time
[12:23:07 AM] Simran : to me an APMEX bar made in 2014 is only worth what it weighs
[12:23:10 AM] Simran : $#@! the name
[12:23:17 AM] Simran : APMEX has no value to me
[12:23:21 AM] Simran : but the silver does
[12:23:23 AM] Simran : heh

..

[GunnyFreedom]

JM Bullion has free shipping for any quantity and I have dealt with them many times without any problems or complaints.
They will keep you updated by email on the status of your order and they accept personal checks.
They currently have 12 different 10 troy ounce bars that beat that price,delivered to your front door.
http://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silv...ilver%20Prices

Here is a good website for keeping track of different PM dealers but figure in the shipping costs.
https://comparesilverprices.com

Wow! thanks for the comparison site.

It turns out apples to apples at JM I only save $1~ on 100 oz. (They don't carry the buffalo ounces.) BUT, this other site on the comparison list you posted, silver.com. Including shipping there I save $20 on 100 ounces.

everything to my doorstep:

APMEX: $1995.95
JM Bullion: $1994.72
Silver.com: $1975.43

I wasn't going to be pulled off of the Buffalo fir a dollar, but I might for $20. Hmm.

[navy-vet]

http://www.golddealer.com/
I liked them a few years ago.

[GunnyFreedom]

..

This is fascinating; buy scrap silver, have it refined into 999, and have a jeweler make bars out of it? surely the refinery isn't that cheap. I'll have to think about this. can't think for long though. I can cruise ebay while I'm thinking though lol. Truth be told I could probably design a bullion piece that would be very popular, and there looks to be a profit model in there somewhere....

[mad cow]

Wow! thanks for the comparison site.

It turns out apples to apples at JM I only save $1~ on 100 oz. (They don't carry the buffalo ounces.) BUT, this other site on the comparison list you posted, silver.com. Including shipping there I save $20 on 100 ounces.

everything to my doorstep:

APMEX: $1995.95
JM Bullion: $1994.72
Silver.com: $1975.43

I wasn't going to be pulled off of the Buffalo fir a dollar, but I might for $20. Hmm.

I was just replying to the 10 ounce bar part of your post,but unless you are dead set on Buffalo Bars you can do much better than the price quoted in your OP on one troy ounce silver bars many places,JM Bullion lists eight of them alone cheaper than the $20.36 each for 50 quoted by Apmex.http://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silver-bars/

[GunnyFreedom]

I was just replying to the 10 ounce bar part of your post,but unless you are dead set on Buffalo Bars you can do much better than the price quoted in your OP on one troy ounce silver bars many places,JM Bullion lists eight of them alone cheaper than the $20.36 each for 50 quoted by Apmex.http://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silver-bars/

And at JM I have to pay credit card fees, while at APMEX I get the wire discount by sending an online bill pay.

[mad cow]

Ah,I do know that JM takes personal checks or bank wires without the fees.Many places will take the bank wires but not the personal checks.
I use personal checks,it takes longer waiting for your check to get there and clear but your price is locked in as soon as the online transaction is completed.

[GunnyFreedom]

Ah,I do know that JM takes personal checks or bank wires without the fees.Many places will take the bank wires but not the personal checks.
I use personal checks,it takes longer waiting for your check to get there and clear but your price is locked in as soon as the online transaction is completed.

I haven't carried paper checks in 20 years, and it costs $15 to send a wire. :-/

[GunnyFreedom]

The silver.com price is the credit card price.

So far ebay looks kindA high

[GunnyFreedom]

Even at silver.com though I'm paying $187.43 over spot on 100 oz.

This other guy is talking about buying AT spot from a refiner, and that sounds like an almost $200 savings to me lol

[mad cow]

I haven't carried paper checks in 20 years, and it costs $15 to send a wire. :-/

I have paper checks at 2 different banks,both are free checking and both were easy to set up.

Edit:One of the banks is BB&T,a North Carolina bank,there should be one near you.

I have 2 checking accounts there,one is unlimited free checking and draws no interest and one is 3 free checks a month and draws whatever pathetic interest rate they are offering these days.

[oyarde]

Well , I buy things with at least some numistic value and pay little more than spot in many cases .If the dollar fails , it is spot , but spot will be much more than I pd .if it does not fail , yet and prices move slightly down , I can still sell for more.

[GunnyFreedom]

I have paper checks at 2 different banks,both are free checking and both were easy to set up.

Edit:One of the banks is BB&T,a North Carolina bank,there should be one near you.

I have 2 checking accounts there,one is unlimited free checking and draws no interest and one is 3 free checks a month and draws whatever pathetic interest rate they are offering these days.

My current account would give me paper checks if I wanted them. I don't. Now it would be so many days to get them, whether I order them from my current bank or opened a new account, and I can't bet that the silver prices would be the same in 10 days anyway. Opening a new account in any case would have to wait until Monday when the prices may be different, and all the time lag in valved in that and acquiring checks.

[GunnyFreedom]

OK one thing, how hard do you think it will be to move an OPM 10oz later? It's a pretty generic mint, but some will like the specification of US mintage. I'll go generic for the cost savings sure enough, but if the 10oz will really be easy to move later Ill get 30 1's and 7 10's and save even more money.

Next $2k I save up I'll buy gold, but it will be in assay.

What I'm actually doing is holding back my taxes since I'm on a 1099. No idea what I'll owe after my expenses now. But I have bought a crazy amount of tools and gas and mileage and repair, so I likely won't have to liquidate much of it in April.

[GunnyFreedom]

wait, I'm stupid. I can just print a freaking paper check. lol

[specsaregood]

Truth be told I could probably design a bullion piece that would be very popular, and there looks to be a profit model in there somewhere....

just remember that having a custom mold made isn't free.

[Ronin Truth]

FWIW, I'd probably go for 100 of the Canadian 1 oz. silver Maple Leafs. Certified weight, purity and also pretty well conveniently divided with a low premium over the bullion price. Whatever floats your boat.

"Hi-Yo, Silver. Away!".

[GunnyFreedom]

you know you want it lol

[2young2vote]

you know you want it lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrT8MbG7uTg

that is what I want.

[presence]

This is fascinating; buy scrap silver, have it refined into 999, and have a jeweler make bars out of it? surely the refinery isn't that cheap. I'll have to think about this. can't think for long though. I can cruise ebay while I'm thinking though lol. Truth be told I could probably design a bullion piece that would be very popular, and there looks to be a profit model in there somewhere....

Simran has been selling silver chains for the couple years I've known him; his assesment is through experience. If you do a bit of leg work on ebay and with your local refiner I bet you could be sitting on 100oz for 1400 or less refined in crude 999 10 oz bars. Something to think about anyway.