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Thread: Senate passes bill arming "Syrian rebels" (ISIS/AQ) 78-22

  1. #1

    Senate passes bill arming "Syrian rebels" (ISIS/AQ) 78-22

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senat...ry?id=25607472

    The Senate passed a stop gap funding measure tonight, which includes authorization for President Obama's plan to train and arm Syrian moderates in the fight against ISIS.

    The Senate voted 78-22 on the continuing resolution, which will fund the government and authorizes Title X until December 11.

    Many Republicans joined Democrats in voting for the continuing resolution, making this a rare bipartisan showing in the Senate.
    ........
    "I want to thank leaders in Congress for the speed and seriousness" with which they acted on his plan, the president said.
    .........
    “It’s a long overdue support for the brave Syrians who are fighting on the front lines against the terrorist enemy,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said.

    “There is no guarantee of success. ... There is none but there is a guarantee of failure if we do not even try and try we must,” Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., said of arming and training Syrian fighters against ISIS. “Despite my concerns about the underlying bill…I will support this resolution because I think it’s in the best interest of our national security.”

    more if click
    It's never rare for the zio-owned Senators to become bipartisan chums when it comes to causing more havoc in the Middle East. In fact, it's expected.

    Rand Paul and Mike Lee voted no.
    Roll call: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00270


    (eta: ignore the two posts immediately below. both have been cheerleading for syria intervention for weeks on rpf....just search their post histories on anything ISIS related. the first page of this thread is a good demonstration of how shills work together to derail a thread.)
    Last edited by devil21; 09-18-2014 at 05:50 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  3. #2
    This is a huge mistake.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    This is a huge mistake.
    It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. They even did this after the Syrian rebels signed a cease fire deal with ISIS.

  5. #4
    ^^^^^^^^
    Who do you two think you're kidding with those posts???? You've both been cheerleaders for this action, and more, for the last few weeks.
    Last edited by devil21; 09-18-2014 at 05:31 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    ^^^^^^^^
    Who do you two think you're kidding with those posts???? You've both been cheerleaders for this action, and more, for the last few weeks.
    I don't know about the other guy, but TC has NOT supported this. He supported airstrikes against ISIS, not supporting the Syrian Rebels.

    TC's position is bad enough as it is, there's no need to strawman it and make it worse.

  7. #6
    No, I think something may need to be done to deal with threats to the US. Threats caused only by the actions of our president. This is not the something. This is an epic mistake.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    No, I think something may need to be done to deal with threats to the US. Threats caused only by the actions of our president. This is not the something. This is an epic mistake.
    It won't be the end of it and you know it.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I don't know about the other guy, but TC has NOT supported this. He supported airstrikes against ISIS, not supporting the Syrian Rebels.
    Yes, exactly. Devil21 is an unabashed idiot, and I'm not really sure whether it's even worth it to respond to any of his posts.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Yes, exactly. Devil21 is an unabashed idiot, and I'm not really sure whether it's even worth it to respond to any of his posts.
    If he's an unabashed idiot for misrepresenting you, what are you for actually supporting intervention?

    I am NOT taking your side here. Never. I value our friendship on these forums, and I don't think its fair to misrepresent your positions, but your positions as actually stated are still pretty bad.

  12. #10
    I neg repped both of you guys.

  13. #11
    Y'all are a little too predictable to be very good at subversion. If that's the best shill training my tax money can buy then I want a refund.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  14. #12
    Look, not everyone is going to agree with you that bombing is always immoral and anti-libertarian. A lot of libertarians, including Rand, believing that killing people who want to kill us is a form of self defense. However, I've always been absolutely opposed to arming ISIS, so Devil21 is an outright liar, and I have no problem at all calling him out on it.

  15. #13
    It is not "pacifist" to oppose this intervention, TC. ISIS hasn't actually done anything to the US. We've seen rhetoric and the murder of two journalists in Iraq. That doesn't give the US government the right to intervene. You are blatantly warmongering here, going against libertarian principles, as is Rand Paul. Rand Paul, of course, is a politician, which isn't an excuse that you have.

    The "liberty movement" will likely split over this. So much for the better. Of course, your side will falsely accuse Ron Paul of pacifism...

  16. #14
    Back to subject matter:

    YEAS-78
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    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Look, not everyone is going to agree with you that bombing is always immoral and anti-libertarian.
    Can bombs be dropped without killing civilians? If not, it is certainly anti-libertarian... More importantly, its anti-Christian.

    A lot of libertarians, including Rand, believing that killing people who want to kill us is a form of self defense.
    Rand is not a libertarian. And if you really think a mere DESIRE on the part of X to kill Y is enough reason for Y to kill X, you are not a libertarian. Rand has NEVER been a libertarian, domestically or on foreign policy. Do you really think there are libertarians for drug prohibition? Heck, libertarians who think Chris Kyle was a "hero"? Come on.

    Live by the sword, die by the sword. THat goes for you, Rand, and whatever foolish pawns wind up dropping the bombs...

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    It is not "pacifist" to oppose this intervention, TC. ISIS hasn't actually done anything to the US. We've seen rhetoric and the murder of two journalists in Iraq. That doesn't give the US government the right to intervene. You are blatantly warmongering here, going against libertarian principles, as is Rand Paul. Rand Paul, of course, is a politician, which isn't an excuse that you have.

    The "liberty movement" will likely split over this. So much for the better. Of course, your side will falsely accuse Ron Paul of pacifism...
    Unfortunately, Ron Paul has some pacifist tendencies. He even opposed killing Osama Bin Laden, a guy who was responsible for murdering 3,000 of our citizens. I supported Ron in 2008 and 2012, but I didn't agree with him on every single issue. I agreed with him when it came to things like opposing the Iraq invasion and opposing foreign military bases, but I felt that at times he went into pacifist territory. So I think that Rand has a better grasp of this issue than Ron does. Radical Islam is a threat to your liberty and my liberty, whether you want to admit it or not.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Unfortunately, Ron Paul has some pacifist tendencies. He even opposed killing Osama Bin Laden, a guy who was responsible for murdering 3,000 of our citizens.
    Would it be immoral for a "terrorist" to kill George W. Bush for murdering 100,000 Iraqis?

    Bin Laden should have received a trial like anyone else if at all possible.

    I supported Ron in 2008 and 2012, but I didn't agree with him on every single issue. I agreed with him when it came to things like opposing the Iraq invasion and opposing foreign military bases, but I felt that at times he went into pacifist territory. So I think that Rand has a better grasp of this issue than Ron does. Radical Islam is a threat to your liberty and my liberty, whether you want to admit it or not.
    lol! If it weren't for your posts in the religion forum I'd think you were a troll. This is just a joke.

  21. #18
    On the plus side,the next ISIS beheading video will probably feature American made bayonets and this free advertising might help with our balance of payments situation.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  22. #19
    Why does everyone have to fit into your labels?

    I think Obama was wrong to intervene in the first place. I though it would cause IS to attack the US. It seems I was right, they have stated they want to or will.

    So now that the US is under threat of attack, I think something should be done to mitigate that threat. I didn't support the intervention that caused the threat, but I am not naive enough to ignore the threat.

    Arming groups that have association with and non-aggression pacts with IS who made the threats is obviously not the way to deal with the situation.

    It's perfectly logical to me. If I don't fit some label because of it, so be it.

  23. #20
    What liberty, TC? What freaking liberty? If Radical Islam ever attacked us for our liberty, they won. Raise the freaking white flag and move on.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Can bombs be dropped without killing civilians? If not, it is certainly anti-libertarian... More importantly, its anti-Christian.
    Ok, then it's basically just you and a handful of other people who have the right to call yourselves "libertarians," if you have to be opposed to all military action in all circumstances to be a libertarian.

  25. #22
    lol arming foreigners while passing bills disarming citizens
    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Why does everyone have to fit into your labels?

    I think Obama was wrong to intervene in the first place. I though it would cause IS to attack the US. It seems I was right, they have stated they want to or will.

    So now that the US is under threat of attack, I think something should be done to mitigate that threat. I didn't support the intervention that caused the threat, but I am not naive enough to ignore the threat.

    Arming groups that have association with and non-aggression pacts with IS who made the threats is obviously not the way to deal with the situation.

    It's perfectly logical to me. If I don't fit some label because of it, so be it.
    Who brought up the labels first? Not me.

    Let me put it this way, intervention is just plain wrong.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Unfortunately, Ron Paul has some pacifist tendencies. He even opposed killing Osama Bin Laden, a guy who was responsible for murdering 3,000 of our citizens. I supported Ron in 2008 and 2012, but I didn't agree with him on every single issue. I agreed with him when it came to things like opposing the Iraq invasion and opposing foreign military bases, but I felt that at times he went into pacifist territory. So I think that Rand has a better grasp of this issue than Ron does. Radical Islam is a threat to your liberty and my liberty, whether you want to admit it or not.
    I thought he only opposed entering Pakistan without the permission of their government. Not killing Bin Laden. He voted for the AUMF to kill Bin Laden.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Ok, then it's basically just you and a handful of other people who have the right to call yourselves "libertarians," if you have to be opposed to all military action in all circumstances to be a libertarian.
    I don't think there are that many libertarians, but when did I say "all circumstances." I think we have the right to defend ourselves against actual, unprovoked attacks. Of course, our foreign policy for the past hundred years makes pretty much everything a gray area at best. But this? With no actual attack? This is blatantly wrong.

    You have the right to call yourself whatever you want, but if you can take this position and still be a libertarian, that's not a term that has that much meaning.

    How many children has America beheaded since 1973?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    lol! If it weren't for your posts in the religion forum I'd think you were a troll. This is just a joke.
    FF, how do you not see a problem with the Islamic religion when you have Muslims from all over the world joining ISIS in Syria and Iraq? There's over 100 Muslims from the U.S fighting for them right now. You don't see Christians running around beheading people and committing acts of terrorism. I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims. It's a problem that has to be addressed. As Rand has said, hopefully those Muslims who are peaceful will actually convince the Muslims who believe in Jihad that that's not the right way to go.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Who brought up the labels first? Not me.

    Let me put it this way, intervention is just plain wrong.
    Yes it is, we agree.

    I did not want this intervention in Iraq. We were done there, not our problem anymore. But when intervention has already happened, I think we need to be pragmatic. I think ignoring a capable group threatening the US is unwise, even though I did not agree with the intervention that caused the threat.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I don't think there are that many libertarians, but when did I say "all circumstances." I think we have the right to defend ourselves against actual, unprovoked attacks. Of course, our foreign policy for the past hundred years makes pretty much everything a gray area at best. But this? With no actual attack? This is blatantly wrong.
    Your statement was that air strikes are wrong since they inadvertently kill innocent people. If we used air strikes after a terrorist attack on our soil, we would still be killing innocent civilians by accident.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    But this? With no actual attack? This is blatantly wrong.
    Were we not attacked on 9-11? Have they not tried to attack us since then? Has this group not said that their goal is to attack us?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Back to subject matter:
    You're the one who started this and got this completely off subject with your unprovoked attack. I simply posted on this thread originally to praise the 22 members who voted against this bill.

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