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Thread: Ron Paul Says Son Rand Speaks for Himself on Attacking ISIS

  1. #1

    Ron Paul Says Son Rand Speaks for Himself on Attacking ISIS

    Ron Paul and Rand Paul agree on a lot, but they don’t agree on what the U.S. should do about the Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria.

    Ron Paul, the former Republican congressman from Texas, tells U.S. News he would “definitely not” vote to give President Barack Obama authority to wage war against the jihadi militants.

    Fighting the group, he says, "will just hurt us and it will end when we go bankrupt.”

    ...

    “He speaks for himself,” Ron Paul says of his son. “I don’t speak for him. He's his own person and he has his views.”
    More:
    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...attacking-isis



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  3. #2
    How about Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11? Or is that a non-starter since it's Constitutional and won't feed the MIC?
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  4. #3
    Just waiting to see how Rand actually votes on this stuff. I'm too jaded at this point to care much what he says in front of cameras.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Just waiting to see how Rand actually votes on this stuff. I'm too jaded at this point to care much what he says in front of cameras.
    He voted to give Israel more funds during their recent dustup after saying he would do so. Voted for sanctions after saying he would do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    He voted to give Israel more funds during their recent dustup after saying he would do so. Voted for sanctions after saying he would do so.
    Thread is about 'ISIS'.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thread is about 'ISIS'.
    Your comment alluded that you weren't going by what he said, but by what he does. Hence the comment from FTA.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  8. #7
    It was only a matter of time until someone as principled as Ron, threw the Rand Paultards under the bus. It's best to get it over with early on, instead of letting it fester until '16.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    It was only a matter of time until someone as principled as Ron, threw the Rand Paultards under the bus. It's best to get it over with early on, instead of letting it fester until '16.
    the Paultard pejorative isn't any less contemptuous or disapproving just because you put "Rand" in front of it. Your message is transparent, April 2011, 3 years and 158 posts. How many of these do you have?



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  11. #9
    Ron > Rand

  12. #10
    Ouch....but I don't really care.

  13. #11
    Are Ron and Rand playing hardball? Seems like Rand's rhetoric on the offensive is vague and cleverly crafted in a way that would make him seem separate from his father, which is important, but not necessarily hawkish. I think they're $#@!ing with the entire country and people are eating it up. This was a very black and white issue for Ron which was the ultimate negative with TV Land boobus. Rand on the other hand is making himself appear as though he's more hawkish than his dad yet I believe it's all an elaborate plan to get him into the WH. As we've learned in politics, the fruit don't fall far from the tree. You're not raised with values like that and then drop them all of a sudden for the presidency. Especially after the kind of life Rand has led.
    Dishonest money makes for dishonest people.

    Andrew Napolitano, John Stossel. FOX News Liberty Infiltrators.


    Quote Originally Posted by Inkblots View Post
    Dr. Paul is living rent-free in the minds of the neocons, and for a fiscal conservative, free rent is always a good thing
    NOBP ≠ ABO

  14. #12
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    Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think Ron and Rand are working almost hand-in-hand on this. And probably because of how Mitt Romney's campaign was going to "forever destroy" (whatever the actual Doug Wead quote was) Ron Paul's legacy/name in 2012.

    The attack ad template was done in 2012. Except, the attack ad wasn't used against Ron Paul, and instead was used against a Ron Paul candidate in a primary with simple word changes. And with simple word changes, it will be a Rand Paul attack ad in 2016. And, depending on WHO is running against Rand the polls, and HOW MUCH they spend, it could very easily destroy any chances Rand has in the south. If you see/saw how the ad was presented, and Rand's actions and "playing the game" regarding certain issues now, it might make some sense. Well, maybe if you think the majority of voters aren't just stupid and actually think before voting.

    So, I hope they have a path to the White House that doesn't include Iowa, South Carolina, Florida, or other southern states. I see New Hampshire as the one early state for a good chance to win, then maybe Maine? Not sure where it goes after that though.

  15. #13
    I also thought they are working on this together. Distancing themselves from each other, while also showing a difference in beliefs.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ron > Rand
    Always.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Your comment alluded that you weren't going by what he said, but by what he does. Hence the comment from FTA.
    Voting for sanctions and foreign aid isn't great but voting to bomb people is a whole different animal in my book and doesn't come even close to comparison.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  18. #16
    If the extent of the strategy they've come up with is to arm and train "moderate rebels" (and non-specified bombing), I really can't see Rand voting for this!
    Last edited by Valli6; 09-16-2014 at 09:31 PM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    It was only a matter of time until someone as principled as Ron, threw the Rand Paultards under the bus. It's best to get it over with early on, instead of letting it fester until '16.
    I support Rand ATM, but I'd be more than happy to see a real libertarian run against him. If one did, I'd support that candidate. I'm mostly supporting Rand because he's significantly better than the alternatives at this point. Its absolutely silly to say Rand "must" be libertarian because Ron's his dad. My dad's a conservative who voted for Bush (twice), McCain, and Romney. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. Sometimes the fruit does fall far from the tree, at least on political matters.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by roho76 View Post
    Are Ron and Rand playing hardball? Seems like Rand's rhetoric on the offensive is vague and cleverly crafted in a way that would make him seem separate from his father, which is important, but not necessarily hawkish. I think they're $#@!ing with the entire country and people are eating it up. This was a very black and white issue for Ron which was the ultimate negative with TV Land boobus. Rand on the other hand is making himself appear as though he's more hawkish than his dad yet I believe it's all an elaborate plan to get him into the WH. As we've learned in politics, the fruit don't fall far from the tree. You're not raised with values like that and then drop them all of a sudden for the presidency. Especially after the kind of life Rand has led.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Buffett
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Voting for sanctions and foreign aid isn't great but voting to bomb people is a whole different animal in my book and doesn't come even close to comparison.
    The point was that he said he would do those things, and people hand-waved them away, saying he was simply employing rhetoric for support. Then he actually voted for those things. And some of those hand-wavers then started to justify not only the rhetoric, but then the votes themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I support Rand ATM, but I'd be more than happy to see a real libertarian run against him. If one did, I'd support that candidate. I'm mostly supporting Rand because he's significantly better than the alternatives at this point. Its absolutely silly to say Rand "must" be libertarian because Ron's his dad. My dad's a conservative who voted for Bush (twice), McCain, and Romney. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. Sometimes the fruit does fall far from the tree, at least on political matters.
    Sure, but Rand's voting record is nearly identical to Ron's. Ron has in the past said they are probably about 99% the same. Rand is 50, his father knows their agreements and disagreements well.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Voting for sanctions and foreign aid isn't great but voting to bomb people is a whole different animal in my book and doesn't come even close to comparison.
    So I guess killing someone instantly with a bomb is worse than starving someone to death over a two or three week period?

  25. #22
    You guys also must remember that Paul was once an average or below average Reaganite 20-30 yrs ago. It took him a while to become what he is now...The same for every1. At the same time, Rand is already there or almost there...

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    So I guess killing someone instantly with a bomb is worse than starving someone to death over a two or three week period?
    Everybody draws their line in the sand somewhere. That's mine.

    And really, starving someone to death over two or three weeks with weak sanctions? Hyperbole much? And we're talking about 'ISIS' and attacking Syria under false pretenses. Strange that I have to keep reminding what the thread is about. The troll brigade seems desperate to turn people against Rand....on Rand's own forum. You're here why again?
    Last edited by devil21; 09-17-2014 at 11:44 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Sure, but Rand's voting record is nearly identical to Ron's. Ron has in the past said they are probably about 99% the same. Rand is 50, his father knows their agreements and disagreements well.
    I think the 99% figure is exaggerated, but whether it is or not, we at least need a more sophisticated argument than "he's Ron Paul's son."

    Also, if Rand becomes as libertarian as Ron 20 years down the road, I'd be happy to support him as enthusiastically as I do Ron. And if Ron came out in favor of attacking ISIS, I'd lose some respect. But right now, reality is what it is. I still support Rand, but I'm not going to pretend like he's a perfect libertarian.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Everybody draws their line in the sand somewhere. That's mine.

    And really, starving someone to death over two or three weeks with weak sanctions? Hyperbole much?
    Fair enough. I more or less agree, other than the fact that I'm still reluctantly supporting Rand despite his stupid comments.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    You guys also must remember that Paul was once an average or below average Reaganite 20-30 yrs ago. It took him a while to become what he is now...The same for every1. At the same time, Rand is already there or almost there...
    Ron was not an average Reaganite 20 or 30 years ago. Read this:

    http://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Policy.../dp/0912453001
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    You guys also must remember that Paul was once an average or below average Reaganite 20-30 yrs ago. It took him a while to become what he is now...The same for every1. At the same time, Rand is already there or almost there...
    No, Ron Paul was the #1 most Conservative/Small Government Congressman between 1937, and 2002. http://voteview.com/Is_John_Kerry_A_Liberal.htm

    Last edited by William Tell; 07-06-2018 at 07:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Everybody draws their line in the sand somewhere. That's mine.

    And really, starving someone to death over two or three weeks with weak sanctions? Hyperbole much? And we're talking about 'ISIS' and attacking Syria under false pretenses. Strange that I have to keep reminding what the thread is about. The troll brigade seems desperate to turn people against Rand....on Rand's own forum. You're here why again?
    Rand has spoken out in support for attacking ISIS with airstrikes. So, if people who support that don't belong here, Rand doesn't either. I'd be OK with that, but at least be consistent.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I think the 99% figure is exaggerated, but whether it is or not, we at least need a more sophisticated argument than "he's Ron Paul's son."
    I don't think it is, it seems to me his heart is in the same place.
    Last edited by William Tell; 07-06-2018 at 07:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Rand has spoken out in support for attacking ISIS with airstrikes. So, if people who support that don't belong here, Rand doesn't either. I'd be OK with that, but at least be consistent.
    Perhaps you should reread what I said. I'm ignoring most of the camera rhetoric, because Im jaded enough at this point to understand how the political game is played, and just watching the votes. That is consistent. He is a politician, you are not. You don't have an excuse.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

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