No man can snatch them out of my hand

[jmdrake]

Hello. I see this verse used a lot by people in the "once saved always saved" camp or the "saved before you were even born" camp. Catholics, by contrast, believe you have to remain in communion with the church, where you have access to the sacraments, in order to be saved. (See http://www.catholic.com/quickquestio...person-to-hell). But there is a third belief. The belief that while no one else can take you out of God's hand, you can freely choose to leave if that's what you really really want to do. Believing in sacramental salvation means that some man can indeed come between you and God. I reject that view as unbiblical. There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5).

So how does this work in practice? I don't think if I'm driving down the street in full communion with my God and I see a sexy jogger in a bikini and "lust with her in my heart" then immediately have an accident due to my being distracted and die before I can say "Lord forgive" me (let alone die before someone can give me last rites) that I'm going to hell. Or lets make it more interesting. My death is such that, for whatever reason, no priest or fellow Christian knows I'm dead. (I'm hiking in the Amazon, see some sexy native taking a bath in a waterfall, and get eaten by a leopard.) Same thing. I don't think God's that eager to throw me away nor that He will leave my salvation to chance that some missionary may find my bones and pray for me.

But on the flip side there are those who at one time had faith in God, turned their back on God, and never came back. Charles Darwin was very much a Christian when he set out on his journey that ultimately led him to challenge creationism. Eventually he became an agnostic. All credible accounts are that he died that way. Some would say "Well he never had faith to begin with". Well...he certainly believed he had faith. So if someone might think they have faith, but they never really had it in the first place, then what kind of "assurance" is that?

Anyway, that's my belief. Nothing that anyone else can do can separate me from God. Being denied sacraments does not cut me off from God, nor does it necessarily show that God has already cut me off. God isn't going to cast me away like damaged goods for some temporary mistake. But I still have the freedom to say "Enough of this God. You go your way, I'll go mine."

[Terry1]

Hello. I see this verse used a lot by people in the "once saved always saved" camp or the "saved before you were even born" camp. Catholics, by contrast, believe you have to remain in communion with the church, where you have access to the sacraments, in order to be saved. (See http://www.catholic.com/quickquestio...person-to-hell). But there is a third belief. The belief that while no one else can take you out of God's hand, you can freely choose to leave if that's what you really really want to do. Believing in sacramental salvation means that some man can indeed come between you and God. I reject that view as unbiblical. There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5).

So how does this work in practice? I don't think if I'm driving down the street in full communion with my God and I see a sexy jogger in a bikini and "lust with her in my heart" then immediately have an accident due to my being distracted and die before I can say "Lord forgive" me (let alone die before someone can give me last rites) that I'm going to hell. Or lets make it more interesting. My death is such that, for whatever reason, no priest or fellow Christian knows I'm dead. (I'm hiking in the Amazon, see some sexy native taking a bath in a waterfall, and get eaten by a leopard.) Same thing. I don't think God's that eager to throw me away nor that He will leave my salvation to chance that some missionary may find my bones and pray for me.

But on the flip side there are those who at one time had faith in God, turned their back on God, and never came back. Charles Darwin was very much a Christian when he set out on his journey that ultimately led him to challenge creationism. Eventually he became an agnostic. All credible accounts are that he died that way. Some would say "Well he never had faith to begin with". Well...he certainly believed he had faith. So if someone might think they have faith, but they never really had it in the first place, then what kind of "assurance" is that?

Anyway, that's my belief. Nothing that anyone else can do can separate me from God. Being denied sacraments does not cut me off from God, nor does it necessarily show that God has already cut me off. God isn't going to cast me away like damaged goods for some temporary mistake. But I still have the freedom to say "Enough of this God. You go your way, I'll go mine."

Great post!

I believe that the most important thing for a believer to remember is that God didn't ask us to love our neighbors and do good to them--He commanded it.

As believers in Christ, we all won't attend the same churches or believe exactly the same way to the letter, but what I believe is one of the most important things to understand with regard to our salvation is that it's possible to walk away from God and be cut off for doing it after God sees that one will not return to Him. This is paramount in understanding why we are warned throughout the NT to continually walk in the Spirit of the Lord and to put on our spiritual armor every day to withstand the attacks of the principalities of darkness that seek to destroy mankind through their own carnal flesh and temptations that will lead them away from God.

I can't stress enough how important it is that people realize how dangerous and corrupt the belief is that we can never lose our salvation. This type of belief also encourages corrupt lifestyles and violence thinking that there's nothing anyone can possibly do to lose that state of elect and salvation--when it will most certainly cause them to lose faith to the point it dies and then fall from grace. This happens only to those whom God knows their hearts and is what Hebrews 6:4 teaches us that when a believer reaches the point of no return to repentance--God cuts them off and then it's impossible to "renew them to repentance" as the word tells us. "Renew" being the keyword here that indicates that yes--at one point they were indeed saved and in a state of elect and then lost it. John 15:5 tells us basically the very same thing, that they were part of the True Vine as a branch that bore no fruit and were then "cut off and burned". There is no coming back or returning from that and yes--they were once saved and part of the Vine as a branch of that same vine, but did not bear fruits of the Spirit. Our fruit is our good works that we do in response to what it is that we have come to believe in Jesus Christ. Without these works that follow faith--James then tells us that our faith without works to back it up is dead being alone and by itself.

So faith can not possibly justify us without the evidence of our works to give "light" unto this dark world--our testimony and evidence that yes--we follow Christ and do His will as the Spirit leads us and guides us.

So we can be snatched out of the Fathers hands in this life if we choose to abandon Christ, but never can we be snatched from the Father once we have died the first death--been resurrected and glorified unto eternal life in the next life.

This is why we're warned all through the NT and told to be ever watchful and to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. What has anyone to fear or tremble about if they believe they can never lose their salvation?

[Christian Liberty]

@Jmdrake- Just for clarification: do you believe that a continual pattern of sin can be enough to separate one from God? Or do you think that it would have to be actual apostasy? also, do you believe that someone who loses his salvation can ever get it back again?

[Kevin007]

If in order to be saved, you believe you have to live a faithful life and not sin to keep your salvation then you are trusting in your good work of faithful living to keep you saved. A Believer's faithfulness is not keeping them saved as that is the work of God. 1 Peter 1:3-5- says a believer is kept by the power of God Himself:

• "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Colossians 2-

• "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." (Colossians 2:13-15)

God says when a person is saved, "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." (Hebrews 10:17)

[Crashland]

But on the flip side there are those who at one time had faith in God, turned their back on God, and never came back. Charles Darwin was very much a Christian when he set out on his journey that ultimately led him to challenge creationism. Eventually he became an agnostic. All credible accounts are that he died that way. Some would say "Well he never had faith to begin with". Well...he certainly believed he had faith. So if someone might think they have faith, but they never really had it in the first place, then what kind of "assurance" is that?

Exactly. Under the assumption of "once saved, always saved", then if you honestly believe that you have faith, there is no way to tell the difference between whether that is true faith, or whether it might turn out later that you must have been somehow deceiving yourself and you never had faith to begin with. Assurance of salvation is incompatible with the fact that people truly do honestly change their minds sometimes. There is no way to know in advance that you are going to change your mind about something before it actually happens.

[lilymc]

People who "change their mind" and leave God were people who were never regenerated and born from above in the first place.

The idea that one can go from "saved" to "unsaved" then back to "saved again" then finally back to "unsaved" is absurd and unbiblical.

In fact, to reject eternal security is borderline blasphemous and it is rooted in pride. Because we make about US, instead of about what God did for us. We can never earn our way to salvation, therefore we don't have to constantly strive and do good deeds in order to be saved. Once we're truly saved, we are saved.

[Crashland]

People who "change their mind" and leave God were people who were never regenerated and born from above in the first place.

The idea that one can go from "saved" to "unsaved" then back to "saved again" then finally back to "unsaved" is absurd and unbiblical.

In fact, to reject eternal security is borderline blasphemous and it is rooted in pride. Because we make about US, instead of about what God did for us. We can never earn our way to salvation, therefore we don't have to constantly strive and do good deeds in order to be saved. Once we're truly saved, we are saved.

Even if you are right about that, you can't hold that you can be assured of your salvation. That was the point. If it's "once saved always saved", yet there are constantly people who were once convinced, like you are, that they were saved (or that God saved them, however you want to word it), but they later turned away, then you have no way of knowing if you are one of those people right now.

[Brett85]

Even if you are right about that, you can't hold that you can be assured of your salvation. That was the point. If it's "once saved always saved", yet there are constantly people who were once convinced, like you are, that they were saved (or that God saved them, however you want to word it), but they later turned away, then you have no way of knowing if you are one of those people right now.

Exactly. Regardless of whether someone actually loses their salvation or were simply never saved to begin with, there are going to be people who had the false assurance that they were saved who won't make it to heaven.

[jmdrake]

@Jmdrake- Just for clarification: do you believe that a continual pattern of sin can be enough to separate one from God? Or do you think that it would have to be actual apostasy? also, do you believe that someone who loses his salvation can ever get it back again?

My personal view on the first question? I believe that a continual pattern of sin is a sign of a disconnect to the "vine" as opposed to the cause. That said, if someone felt so burdened by guilt that they didn't want to approach God or decided to start rationalizing sin that could cause them to drift. But the answer always is the relationship with God as opposed to worrying about "fixing" your own sin problem. You just can't do that.

As for someone losing salvation and getting it back, I will ask the question back to you. When Charles Darwin was openly agnostic do you think he was lost? If he had actually returned to a belief in God wouldn't he be saved? The prodigal son started off safe in his father's house. He left. He turned his back completely on his father. He came to his senses and came back home.

[jmdrake]

If in order to be saved, you believe you have to live a faithful life and not sin to keep your salvation then you are trusting in your good work of faithful living to keep you saved.

Kevin, who are you directing your argument at? Because ^that is not at all what I said. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote, made up something to argue against, and went to work. Once again, what I actually wrote.

So how does this work in practice? I don't think if I'm driving down the street in full communion with my God and I see a sexy jogger in a bikini and "lust with her in my heart" then immediately have an accident due to my being distracted and die before I can say "Lord forgive" me (let alone die before someone can give me last rites) that I'm going to hell. Or lets make it more interesting. My death is such that, for whatever reason, no priest or fellow Christian knows I'm dead. (I'm hiking in the Amazon, see some sexy native taking a bath in a waterfall, and get eaten by a leopard.) Same thing. I don't think God's that eager to throw me away nor that He will leave my salvation to chance that some missionary may find my bones and pray for me.

But on the flip side there are those who at one time had faith in God, turned their back on God, and never came back. Charles Darwin was very much a Christian when he set out on his journey that ultimately led him to challenge creationism. Eventually he became an agnostic. All credible accounts are that he died that way. Some would say "Well he never had faith to begin with". Well...he certainly believed he had faith. So if someone might think they have faith, but they never really had it in the first place, then what kind of "assurance" is that?


So no. I don't believe that you have to "keep yourself from sinning" in order to "keep your salvation". You can screw up and still be saved. But do you turn your back completely on God like Charles Darwin eventually did? It's like I tell my kids. It's not the mistake that gets you. It's the mistake after the mistake. Saul initially started off so humble that even after God chose him to be king the people had to go find him. But eventually he got arrogant. Then when Samuel corrected him by saying he would lose his kingdom, he was defiant and tried to undo the prophecy by killing David. David, on the other hand, committed what most would consider a much worse sin than Saul, but David had a teachable spirit and was willing to repent and accept the consequences for his actions when God brought them to his attention.

[Christian Liberty]

My personal view on the first question? I believe that a continual pattern of sin is a sign of a disconnect to the "vine" as opposed to the cause. That said, if someone felt so burdened by guilt that they didn't want to approach God or decided to start rationalizing sin that could cause them to drift. But the answer always is the relationship with God as opposed to worrying about "fixing" your own sin problem. You just can't do that.

As for someone losing salvation and getting it back, I will ask the question back to you. When Charles Darwin was openly agnostic do you think he was lost? If he had actually returned to a belief in God wouldn't he be saved? The prodigal son started off safe in his father's house. He left. He turned his back completely on his father. He came to his senses and came back home.

Well, my stance would be that Darwin was lost when he was agnostic, and that he always had been lost. Had he come to a truly saving faith, he would have then been saved for the first time. But I know you disagree.

[jmdrake]

People who "change their mind" and leave God were people who were never regenerated and born from above in the first place.

As I predicted. The "they were bitten by the rattlesnake because they didn't really have faith" argument.

The idea that one can go from "saved" to "unsaved" then back to "saved again" then finally back to "unsaved" is absurd and unbiblical.

It's neither absurd nor unbiblical. The "lost sheep" in Jesus parable started out in the fold. Jesus clearly said the sheep was "lost". The shepherd "found" or "saved" the sheep. Adam and Even started out in paradise. They sinned. They needed a savior. You assume, without evidence, that anyone who ends up lost never had saving faith. Of course here's the question. What does it mean to be "regenerate" and how do you know that you are? Do yo have a "faith" that is beyond "faith"? Calvinists never bother trying to define why it is that they think they are saved. You believe in Jesus? Great. You believe TULIP? Wonderful. There are people with the exact same beliefs that end up lost.

In fact, to reject eternal security is borderline blasphemous and it is rooted in pride. Because we make about US, instead of about what God did for us. We can never earn our way to salvation, therefore we don't have to constantly strive and do good deeds in order to be saved. Once we're truly saved, we are saved.

Ad hominem fallacy. "Don't dare think for yourself you blasphemer!" There is not a person on earth who gets off of a sinking ship onto a rescue ship that thinks it was "about him" just because he got on the rescue ship rather than swimming away to the sharks. What is "absurd" is the argument that believing you have the freewill to accept or reject salvation somehow makes salvation about "you". It doesn't.

[jmdrake]

Well, my stance would be that Darwin was lost when he was agnostic, and that he always had been lost. Had he come to a truly saving faith, he would have then been saved for the first time. But I know you disagree.

And so what might have been quantifiably different about the faith he had before he became an agnostic besides the fact that you believe if he had the "right" faith he wouldn't have become agnostic? I know you can't get inside his head. That's why I said "might".

[Kevin007]

Exactly. Under the assumption of "once saved, always saved", then if you honestly believe that you have faith, there is no way to tell the difference between whether that is true faith, or whether it might turn out later that you must have been somehow deceiving yourself and you never had faith to begin with. Assurance of salvation is incompatible with the fact that people truly do honestly change their minds sometimes. There is no way to know in advance that you are going to change your mind about something before it actually happens.

incorrect. If you are a Believer you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and you def. will know.

[Kevin007]

Kevin, who are you directing your argument at? Because ^that is not at all what I said. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote, made up something to argue against, and went to work. Once again, what I actually wrote.

So how does this work in practice? I don't think if I'm driving down the street in full communion with my God and I see a sexy jogger in a bikini and "lust with her in my heart" then immediately have an accident due to my being distracted and die before I can say "Lord forgive" me (let alone die before someone can give me last rites) that I'm going to hell. Or lets make it more interesting. My death is such that, for whatever reason, no priest or fellow Christian knows I'm dead. (I'm hiking in the Amazon, see some sexy native taking a bath in a waterfall, and get eaten by a leopard.) Same thing. I don't think God's that eager to throw me away nor that He will leave my salvation to chance that some missionary may find my bones and pray for me.

But on the flip side there are those who at one time had faith in God, turned their back on God, and never came back. Charles Darwin was very much a Christian when he set out on his journey that ultimately led him to challenge creationism. Eventually he became an agnostic. All credible accounts are that he died that way. Some would say "Well he never had faith to begin with". Well...he certainly believed he had faith. So if someone might think they have faith, but they never really had it in the first place, then what kind of "assurance" is that?


So no. I don't believe that you have to "keep yourself from sinning" in order to "keep your salvation". You can screw up and still be saved. But do you turn your back completely on God like Charles Darwin eventually did? It's like I tell my kids. It's not the mistake that gets you. It's the mistake after the mistake. Saul initially started off so humble that even after God chose him to be king the people had to go find him. But eventually he got arrogant. Then when Samuel corrected him by saying he would lose his kingdom, he was defiant and tried to undo the prophecy by killing David. David, on the other hand, committed what most would consider a much worse sin than Saul, but David had a teachable spirit and was willing to repent and accept the consequences for his actions when God brought them to his attention.

a Believer couldn't and wouldn't turn their back on God on purpose. Period. How long or how often can a person sin without repenting before "losing" their salvation? And why would God keep you guessing day to day with the most important question? What kind of security and joy could a Believer have if they were always wondering if their salvation could be lost? Jesus died for a Believer's sins- all of them, not just some of them.

[Kevin007]

People who "change their mind" and leave God were people who were never regenerated and born from above in the first place.

The idea that one can go from "saved" to "unsaved" then back to "saved again" then finally back to "unsaved" is absurd and unbiblical.

In fact, to reject eternal security is borderline blasphemous and it is rooted in pride. Because we make about US, instead of about what God did for us. We can never earn our way to salvation, therefore we don't have to constantly strive and do good deeds in order to be saved. Once we're truly saved, we are saved.

exactly right. The focus here seems to be on our "performance" and not on Jesus' . How sad and terrible. Jesus died while we were STILL SINNERS. He knew every sin we would commit even after we were saved- yet still we were ALREADY FORGIVEN. Many Believers will have sins that they can never shake. We are in the FLESH. We will never be practically perfect on Earth, but when we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior we became POSITIONALLY PERFECT in God the Fathers eyes.

We are being sanctified daily when we walk in His ways. We should be getting smaller and Christ bigger. All of us want to please God and it makes us feel good and our Father feel good but when we sin, Jesus "has our back". When God sees a true Believer He sees Jesus.

[Kevin007]

Kevin, who are you directing your argument at? Because ^that is not at all what I said. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote, made up something to argue against, and went to work. Once again, what I actually wrote.

So how does this work in practice? I don't think if I'm driving down the street in full communion with my God and I see a sexy jogger in a bikini and "lust with her in my heart" then immediately have an accident due to my being distracted and die before I can say "Lord forgive" me (let alone die before someone can give me last rites) that I'm going to hell. Or lets make it more interesting. My death is such that, for whatever reason, no priest or fellow Christian knows I'm dead. (I'm hiking in the Amazon, see some sexy native taking a bath in a waterfall, and get eaten by a leopard.) Same thing. I don't think God's that eager to throw me away nor that He will leave my salvation to chance that some missionary may find my bones and pray for me.

But on the flip side there are those who at one time had faith in God, turned their back on God, and never came back. Charles Darwin was very much a Christian when he set out on his journey that ultimately led him to challenge creationism. Eventually he became an agnostic. All credible accounts are that he died that way. Some would say "Well he never had faith to begin with". Well...he certainly believed he had faith. So if someone might think they have faith, but they never really had it in the first place, then what kind of "assurance" is that?


So no. I don't believe that you have to "keep yourself from sinning" in order to "keep your salvation". You can screw up and still be saved. But do you turn your back completely on God like Charles Darwin eventually did? It's like I tell my kids. It's not the mistake that gets you. It's the mistake after the mistake. Saul initially started off so humble that even after God chose him to be king the people had to go find him. But eventually he got arrogant. Then when Samuel corrected him by saying he would lose his kingdom, he was defiant and tried to undo the prophecy by killing David. David, on the other hand, committed what most would consider a much worse sin than Saul, but David had a teachable spirit and was willing to repent and accept the consequences for his actions when God brought them to his attention.

Charles Darwin was not a Christian when he set out. He became one most say at the end of his life. Thats a pretty weak "argument" against OSAS if I ever saw one.

[jmdrake]

a Believer couldn't and wouldn't turn their back on God on purpose.

So what exactly is a "believer" and how do you know Darwin didn't start out as one other than your circular reasoning argument?

Period. How long or how often can a person sin without repenting before "losing" their salvation?

Well I don't intend to disobey God's command to repent just to try it out.

And why would God keep you guessing day to day with the most important question?

There is no "guessing". Either you're listening to God's voice or you aren't. Either you're believing or you aren't. I would say the guesswork is in your camp because you have no objective way of knowing whether you are really a "believer" or not. I'm pretty sure Darwin believed he was a believer.

What kind of security and joy could a Believer have if they were always wondering if their salvation could be lost? Jesus died for a Believer's sins- all of them, not just some of them.

More security than I would have if I believe, as you apparently do, that someone could think they are a believer but not really be a believer.

[jmdrake]

Charles Darwin was not a Christian when he set out. He became one most say at the end of his life. Thats a pretty weak "argument" against OSAS if I ever saw one.

So basically you reverse known facts to fit your argument? All credible sources (like his family) state that he was a Christian when he started on his voyage but eventually lost faith in God and became an agnostic. The reports that he became a Christian on his deathbed came from a woman that his family says wasn't even around at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...Charles_Darwin

[Brett85]

incorrect. If you are a Believer you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and you def. will know.

Don't you think that Charles Darwin felt that he had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him?

[Kevin007]

So what exactly is a "believer" and how do you know Darwin didn't start out as one other than your circular reasoning argument?



Well I don't intend to disobey God's command to repent just to try it out.




There is no "guessing". Either you're listening to God's voice or you aren't. Either you're believing or you aren't. I would say the guesswork is in your camp because you have no objective way of knowing whether you are really a "believer" or not. I'm pretty sure Darwin believed he was a believer.



More security than I would have if I believe, as you apparently do, that someone could think they are a believer but not really be a believer.

you just made my point. You wouldn't know, would you. God wants you to KNOW, OBVIOUSLY. Look at the whole of Scripture which supports eternal security of the believer. If I cannot do good works to get saved, how can i sin to get "unsaved". You do not understand a Believer's POSITION IN CHRIST. You are not saved one day then unsaved the next etc etc... The Believer knows they are His and vice versa. Verse after verse prove eternal security. There are about 3-5 verses those who do not believe in OSAS and they misapply them.

Those who deny OSAS are not trusting fully in Jesus for their salvation. They are trusting in themselves also. You are lowering true Christianity to other religions who are hoping to attain salvation by keeping the laws. Yoiu are hoping for the best. IMHO the people who are not saved are the ones who do not believe in Eternal Security.

You guys do not know a thing about sanctification vs salvation. Justification vs glorification.

[Kevin007]

Don't you think that Charles Darwin felt that he had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him?

I don't care what Darwin felt.

[Kevin007]

"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." —Romans 5:15


"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." —Romans 4:5


and many many others like; John 6:37-40, John 10:26-30, and Rom 8:33-39 especially in light of Rom 11:2.

[Crashland]

incorrect. If you are a Believer you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and you def. will know.

Yeah, and I definitely knew that I had the Holy Spirit in me for years. I was as sure of that as the sun coming up tomorrow. And yet today I'm an atheist. As much as you might not like to think so, most ex-Christians really were convinced that they had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them during the time they were Christians.

[Brett85]

IMHO the people who are not saved are the ones who do not believe in Eternal Security.

So now believing in eternal security is a requirement to be a Christian? Isn't that "works Salvationism" itself since you seem to believe that you have to get every doctrinal belief correct in order to be a Christian?

[Kevin007]

So now believing in eternal security is a requirement to be a Christian? Isn't that "works Salvationism" itself since you seem to believe that you have to get every doctrinal belief correct in order to be a Christian?

I said IMHO.

[Kevin007]

People are trusting in their works to "stay" saved, and not fully in Jesus.

[Crashland]

People are trusting in their works to "stay" saved, and not fully in Jesus.

Trusting fully in Jesus is just as much a "work" as anything else. I fail to see a distinction.

[Brett85]

People are trusting in their works to "stay" saved, and not fully in Jesus.

What do you think Jesus meant when he said that every good branch bears fruit, and that we're supposed to bear fruit once we become a branch on Christ's vine?

[Brett85]

Trusting fully in Jesus is just as much a "work" as anything else. I fail to see a distinction.

That's true. Trusting in Jesus is an action itself. It requires thoughts and words.