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Thread: Adrian Peterson indicted after giving his son a 'whooping'

  1. #91
    After looking at those pictures, which are a week old, I would have him charged.



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  3. #92
    I turn put ffffffffffffine. The Chinese use corporal punishment all the time. With a bamboo stick or the wooden part of a feather duster. Chinese however is vulnerable and follows the authorities every order..

  4. #93
    Oh my god, so that is the picture after one week? unless the little boy has some minor form of hemophilia, there is no reason why you should still be seeing blood clot after 1 week from that injury. Charge the woman with child neglect for not giving the boy a good shower after 1 week, take the child off her hands and force her to pay Adrian child support for the rest of her life.

  5. #94
    Threads like this are why I don't post on here as often anymore.

    It's so simple: don't hit your kids! How is it so difficult for people to wrap their minds around this? This is what should be the most basic thing to understand for a libertarian or anarchist. How are we going to rid ourselves of the state if we act like the state to our kids?
    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    I understand that. How many times, as a four year old, were you switched upwards of 40 times to the extent it tore the skin on your scrotum? For pushing another child?
    It's 2014. It isn't 1714. Can we please stop $#@!ing beating children for acting like children? This $#@! makes me $#@!ing sick. Anyone who tolerates this horrific $#@! is a terrible, miserable, awful, human. Period. "Well, back in my day we used to get smashed in the face with a brick by our parents!" Really, go $#@! yourself. We're supposedly a civilized culture now. We DON'T hit four year olds! Period! End!

    This kind of thing makes me genuinely sick to my stomach. Imagine watching a 200 pound man hit a four year old. Ugh. A four year old. Just revolting.
    Last edited by KingNothing; 09-13-2014 at 03:54 PM.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Snew View Post
    Threads like this are why I don't post on here as often anymore.

    It's so simple: don't hit your kids! How is it so difficult for people to wrap their minds around this? This is what should be the most basic thing to understand for a libertarian or anarchist. How are we going to rid ourselves of the state if we act like the state to our kids?
    It is sickening. This stuff actually sickens me. I don't understand why anyone, let alone those who understand destructive cycles of violence would tolerate it.



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  9. #97
    There is one, and ONLY one, excuse to hit a child -- you need IMMEDIATE compliance in order to keep the child, or other children, from greater harm. If you hit a kid in any other circumstance, you're admitting that you do not have the intellectual capacity to guide another human through life, and that you're relegated to using force. You're no better than a tyrannical government.

    Only stupid people use violence to gain compliance.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    There is one, and ONLY one, excuse to hit a child -- you need IMMEDIATE compliance in order to keep the child, or other children, from greater harm. If you hit a kid in any other circumstance, you're admitting that you do not have the intellectual capacity to guide another human through life, and that you're relegated to using force. You're no better than a tyrannical government.

    Only stupid people use violence to gain compliance.
    Yup. Spanking is just an easy way out of actual parenting.
    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by The Free Hornet View Post
    Is there a middle path in this thread between beating children and being a smug a-hole? Perhaps it is printed on the Continental Currency of days gone by: Mind Your Business.

    No. You don't $#@!ing hit children. No four year old has ever done anything with malicious intent. This is infuriating.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    Parents have no rights. Only privileges. A child isn't their property they can abuse and beat to a bloody pulp for any minor infraction.

    Anyone who thinks this will reduce the likely hood of misbehaving in the future is a fool. The overwhelming consensus among health care professions is that corporal punishment leads to increased crime rates and a host of other issues.

    Corporal punishment is nothing more than lazy parenting that teaches might makes right. It teaches no moral values or principles. All it teaches is "fear someone stronger than you or get the $#@! kicked out of you", something that study after study confirms, as kids who were hit by their parents are far more prone to violence as adults.
    I bumped this excellent post so more people could read it.
    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    And what would you do if you saw someone punishing their child?

    My bet is either mouth off or call the cops.
    I give AF a hard time for the frequency with which he says he would jump to act in trying circumstances, but I would absolutely, unequivocally, stand up to someone abusing a four year old. That is totally unacceptable and I would never be able to live with myself if I witnessed it and stood idle.

  14. #102
    Anyone ever actually tried reasoning with a 4 year old little boy?

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic View Post
    Anyone ever actually tried reasoning with a 4 year old little boy?
    Yes. Sometimes it doesn't work. Thankfully, at that age they are not particularly able to do too much to entertain themselves without adult assistance. In this case the argument was over a certain video game, I believe, so the intelligent response would have been to remove the video game and point out that if they (both of them) cannot play nicely, then they will not play it at all. If there was a tantrum thrown afterwards, then time out/spanking/whatever seems like the next logical step.

    I don't get how people who see this as wrong are immediately met with lines about how spanking is necessary and being switched is normal/okay. You can agree with those things and still understand that punishments must be age and action -appropriate. You don't punish a toddler the same way you punish a teen. You don't punish someone who shoved another child the same way you'd punish someone who shoved a much smaller child (think a ten-year-old shoving their two-year-old sibling off of a deck) and could have caused serious injury. And you don't punish a four-year-old by whipping them bloody along their hands, legs, and scrotum, so many times that you lost count and so severely that the wounds are still bloody a week later. This shouldn't be so very difficult for people to get, but somehow it is.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic View Post
    Anyone ever actually tried reasoning with a 4 year old little boy?
    No, but I've tried reasoning with people who think it's okay to whip them bloody. The maturity level is similar, so I'm sure it relates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic View Post
    Anyone ever actually tried reasoning with a 4 year old little boy?
    Yes, two of them.

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Oh my god, so that is the picture after one week? unless the little boy has some minor form of hemophilia, there is no reason why you should still be seeing blood clot after 1 week from that injury. Charge the woman with child neglect for not giving the boy a good shower after 1 week, take the child off her hands and force her to pay Adrian child support for the rest of her life.
    Now that's a twist I can support.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    ..being switched is normal/okay...
    These aren't synonymous in the context of what we're talking about here. I know that it's easy to make it seem as if they are but they really aren't.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-13-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic View Post
    Anyone ever actually tried reasoning with a 4 year old little boy?

    it's not reasoning with a child

    it is enforcing standards

    if standards are backed up by violence, then one shouldn't be surprised when violence is displayed by the child

    my standards are, we do not hit. ever.

    by 4 years old, children can reciprocate standards... violent or not

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    These aren't synonymous in the context of what we're talking about here. I know that it's easy to make it seem as if they are but they really aren't.
    Read back over the thread, and read comments anywhere the story's been posted. They should put out a "I was switched as a kid and turned out GREAT!" template for use. Read the player's own comments about how okay what he was doing was. Make an educated guess that the mother --- who was not the one to report the injuries and has been strangely quiet --- seems to be okay with it, particularly since it doesn't seem those welts were particularly cared for.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  23. #110
    I can find no circumstance under which whacking a 4 year old in the scrotum, or drawing blood is an appropriate punishment.

    That said... I would like to see some anger management type classes and some community service. No jail time. No foster care.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic View Post
    Anyone ever actually tried reasoning with a 4 year old little boy?
    Better to just hit them, really.

    Holy Christ, it is not difficult at all to reason with a four year old, or a one year old, or a ten year old, or a twenty year old. Humans have wants, and needs. A parent is obligated to provide for a child's needs, but not all of a child's wants. If a child wants to play a video game, or to eat cookies, or to play outside, or to have a friend over, or to watch a movie, and they behave in an unacceptable manner, you talk to to them about it like they're a human being and you explain to them that if they don't change their behavior, they lose something they want until their behavior improves. Sometimes that is difficult. Sometimes you have to endure tantrums. So what? You're an adult. Don't act like the child. Don't lash out and act violently. Be resolute. It isn't that difficult. Plenty of people raise children without making them bleed, or even striking them at all.
    Last edited by KingNothing; 09-13-2014 at 06:50 PM.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    Parents have no rights. Only privileges. A child isn't their property they can abuse and beat to a bloody pulp for any minor infraction.
    The Libertarian movement needs to move away from the concept of "rights" all together. To argue within that hemisphere leads one to spinning their wheels. Everyone picks and chooses what rights they think they have. Once I started arguing from a consequential position (which I used to be very against) it all clicked and fell into place. Your argument is a great example of where I'm talking about arguing from.
    Founder and leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army.



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  27. #113

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Read back over the thread, and read comments anywhere the story's been posted. They should put out a "I was switched as a kid and turned out GREAT!" template for use. Read the player's own comments about how okay what he was doing was. Make an educated guess that the mother --- who was not the one to report the injuries and has been strangely quiet --- seems to be okay with it, particularly since it doesn't seem those welts were particularly cared for.
    I tend to take comments like those at face value. How I read them kind of tells me if they sincerely got it really good or regularly. It's a very humbling thing if a kid is at the receiving end of both and it guides the way one approaches the kind of discussion as an adult because, really, it humbles the kid for life and guides the way that he or she functions with their families. To be honest, I haven't read anything about it except for here on the board. If someone tells me how good they got it when they were little they're either bragging or genuinly want to discuss the phenomenon. Most of the time it's easy to decipher from the basic tone of what they're saying and is really why I took the time to specifically mention my thought on the synonymous language. What you have there are really two different debates or discussions. Subjectively different, even.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    If I saw some one switching a kid.

    Oh yeah, I'd call the cops, also record it on my nexus 5, post it online. A fair amount of people don't like that kind of thing.

    If it was to the level that the whipping was drawing blood, like in the pics, yeah, I know I'd do my best to stop the psychopath right there.

    If your view is a "libertarian" stands by while someone beats on another human being and does nothing, well, that's not the side of the debate I'm on.

    It doesn't really matter if the abuser is a cop or a psycho parent.
    So you want to stop a person from using voilence, by having government use violence on them?

    Makes perfect sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutional Paulicy View Post
    1. Open handed on the buttocks causing sting
    2. Administer with a level head
    3. Execute very rarely
    4. Only apply for extreme or destructive behavior

    Strong willed kids will respect you more the next time you shout and exhibit your boiling point. They wont want you to go there again.
    As a last resort to stop an out of control younger child in a full blown tantrum, a smack on the butt is not a big deal. It works.


    I saw the pics, honestly it looks like a few scratches, not a beating. My kids come back from playing in the woods looking worse than that.

  30. #116
    Everyone here who is at least tacitly supporting switching/spanking/smacking should be aware that Ron Paul didn't even yell at his children, let alone hit them.

    They seem to have turned out OK.

    "Mrs. Paul was a stay-at-home mom, longtime Girl Scout troop leader and self-described “busybody” who prided herself on knowing exactly what everyone was doing. If one of the children misbehaved, her husband did not spank or yell. Instead, he sometimes gave them written assignments, Mrs. Paul said, explaining, “He believed in exercising the brain.”"

    Imagine that. It is possible to raise children without hitting them. Who would have guessed?!
    Last edited by KingNothing; 09-13-2014 at 07:22 PM.

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    Everyone here who is at least tacitly supporting switching/spanking/smacking should be aware that Ron Paul didn't even yell at his children, let alone hit them.

    They seem to have turned out OK.

    "Mrs. Paul was a stay-at-home mom, longtime Girl Scout troop leader and self-described “busybody” who prided herself on knowing exactly what everyone was doing. If one of the children misbehaved, her husband did not spank or yell. Instead, he sometimes gave them written assignments, Mrs. Paul said, explaining, “He believed in exercising the brain.”"

    Imagine that. It is possible to raise children without hitting them. Who would have guessed?!
    Do you even have kids?

    Some PR statement aside, no parent has never yelled at their kid.

  32. #118
    i think what mrs. paul is saying is that a thinking parent does not yell or spank on principle.... not that mistakes aren't made

    but yelling, violence, and poor self control are not what a parent should model...

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by The Free Hornet View Post
    Is there a middle path in this thread between beating children and being a smug a-hole? Perhaps it is printed on the Continental Currency of days gone by: Mind Your Business.
    I've never understood the "Don't tell me how to raise MY kids" kind of argument. If you're hitting your children, it IS my business. Hitting children has been proven to decrease IQ and increase aggression. When I have to live in the same world as these broken human beings, it IS my business.

  34. #120
    I understand you can make an argument about optimality, but I just don't think a slap on the butt is anywhere near morally equivalent to what AP did.



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