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Thread: Libertarian Thought Is Rapidly Winning Hearts and Minds

  1. #1

    Libertarian Thought Is Rapidly Winning Hearts and Minds

    Libertarian Thought Is Rapidly Winning Hearts and Minds

    By Jack D. Douglas

    September 3, 2014

    Lew Rockwell has just shown how the New York Times and other Republicran media belittle the rapidly growing impact of serious Libertarian thinkers and actors on America and beyond and shows that a large and growing minority of serious people in America are thinking seriously about the ideas and goals of Libertarianism.

    In short, the best and brightest of Americans are awaking more and more to the catastrophes of the System and to the realistic and moral alternatives Libertarians have been proposing forcefully for centuries.

    This is not yet clear even to most of the serious people waking up to Libertarian thought and action, both because of the Big Media belittling and blacking-out [censoring] of the serious Libertarian thought and action and because most of the Americans awaking to all of this still feel a need to hide their real thoughts and desires from the oppressive people who rule the System and might throw them down Big Brother’s Memory Hole along with Libertarian truths.

    I recently had a splendid, scholarly talk with a brilliant businessman who is an important libertarian thinker but writes his libertarian works under a nom de plum, as dissidents living in police states of all forms have had to do for centuries to avoid getting black-balled or worse, possibly put on secret trial by Inquisitors or summarily disappeared.

    I know many brilliant libertarians in business and the professions who choose to remain “in the closet” and pass as Demos or Repubs of the Republicrat Party, depending on which wing of the monopoly party is dominant in their lives.

    This is quite obvious in worlds like finance where the Repubs are a strong monopoly and academic economics where, except for a few black-balled universities, the monopolists are Demos. [Decades ago I was at a libertarian conference where some of the people knew that I was a friend of an economist known by them to agree basically with Mises and Hayek, but as chairman of a major department he hired econometric policy makers for the System. Some of them asked me suspiciously, as if I might be part of some conspiracy with him, WHY he did that? I told them he never told me, but I assumed it was because his academic bureaucracy career demanded it for money and status and he was not willing to sacrifice those for truth as they and I were doing, committing academic "suicide" or "stateside" by being libertarians openly.]

    Most people still working in the vast U.S. System must make a living within the System and they know that being “stigmatized” as a libertarian will get them black-balled. They’re right. I could give you all kinds of examples of that from “elite universities” I knew from the inside. For example, I once presented the c.v. of a brilliant black sociologist specializing in the media with experience at the very top and lots of publications. They thought she sounded great. Then they read some things she had written and obviously realized she was not a “Real Black” (leftist). That killed her immediately for them. She was blacked out, not mentionable. That’s typical, but most get shot down in flames before any interest is shown. They see the tips of freedom thought and disappear that non-person into Big Brother’s Republicrat Sinkhole of Forgetfulness.

    The best and brightest in America are waking up to the awful catastrophe of the System across the board from medicine and law and education and politics and finance and business to wars raging around the world.

    In fact, most Americans, not just the best and brightest, want out of the Republicrat Warfare State and say so secretly to pollsters.

    But most of the best and brightest lead double lives. They have to make a living in the System and want to avoid getting black-balled. So they “pass” as Republicrats. But more and more of them are heart-and-soul libertarians waiting for a better day.

    Most of them “come out” when they retire, if they have secure incomes. More and more are finding niches in the family farm back in North Dakota or build a niche in the hill country south of Austin or in N. California or….

    Then they can come out as honest, whole, integrated human beings devoted to freedom in full public view.

    They see the System is rapidly destroying itself. The whole world is still mired in a Black Financial Hole because of the U.S. Fed System Implosion at the top eight years ago. Serious people can disagree over whether the Systme will Implode, as I have argued for many years, or will Crash and be rebuilt without an implosion. But most of the best and brightest in all walks of life know The System is on code-blue and destroying itself. They are more and more desperate to find escapes for the day when the final count-down ends and Financial Armageddon begins. They already see the U.S. starting and fueling vast, cataclysmic warfare worldwide from Drug Wars to guerrilla armies and coups and….

    Lew Rockwell and all of us who write libertarian essays or books get heart-felt letters all the time from bright and good people hiding out all over America who tell us how wonderful it is to find out they are not really alone.

    Most people do not know much about finance or economics or warfare and such things, but they understand and feel in their hearts and intuitive minds that the System is destroying itself and will come to an end soon and that Americans will return to their human and American roots and rebuild livable and fulfilling and self-sustaining worlds, just as the people of other totalitarian societies such as Nazi Germany and Communist Russia have been doing once the System was destroyed from within or outside.

    Milovan Djilas was a top Yugoslavian communist official who came to realize long before the communist System imploded that most of the intelligent “Marxist” officials in the communist world no longer really believed what they said and were simply lip-synching Marxist BS and hiding out and waiting. He was right. And when the System started imploding they were ecstatic and buried it very quickly and rebuilt their lives and nations.

    Our System Implosion will probably be more financial and may be more painful, but we will return to the roots of our hearts and minds and of our Libertarian [classical liberal] Constitutional roots of freedom.

    People everywhere must have faith in the truths of their innermost hearts and minds, begin carefully to bear witness to those truths so that all people can hear and see them in real life and know they are not alone, and prepare to survive the System catastrophes or Implosion as it Crashes in a final flame out and then rebuild their lives on those firm foundations of realistic, shared, responsible freedoms and morals.

    The Best of Jack D. Douglas

    Jack D. Douglas [send him mail] is a retired professor of sociology from the University of California at San Diego. He has published widely on all major aspects of human beings, most notably The Myth of the Welfare State.
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/09/j...ht-is-winning/

    Copyright © 2014 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are provided.



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  3. #2
    And yet even elements of RPF are clamoring for war with ISIS. I don't buy it yet.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    And yet even elements of RPF are clamoring for war with ISIS. I don't buy it yet.
    http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    I'm aware. I'm just saying that the last few days have shown me that even many here aren't actually libertarians. Let alone most people in the rest of the country.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    And yet even elements of RPF are clamoring for war with ISIS. I don't buy it yet.
    Because ISIS is arguably a threat.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I'm aware. I'm just saying that the last few days have shown me that even many here aren't actually libertarians. Let alone most people in the rest of the country.
    Hence the NAP litmus test for all "libertarians" (so called) that I continue to and have now long endorsed. Applies to LP members also.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    Because ISIS is arguably a threat.
    That could then also mean that it's arguably not. Maybe just the current government fabricated scary boogie man, du jour.

    What's next OSIRIS?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Hence the NAP litmus test for all "libertarians" (so called) that I continue to and have now long endorsed. Applies to LP members also.
    Good point. I don't demand perfect adherence to the NAP on fiscal or social issues before I'll endorse someone. I think Ron Paul made one or two errors, as do most other people. Mind you, I want something CLOSE to the NAP, but if someone makes a small number of mistakes I may still endorse them.

    I have far less patience on foreign policy issues.



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  11. #9
    Once the seed is planted, it will grow. It just grows faster with some people. 5 stars.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Good point. I don't demand perfect adherence to the NAP on fiscal or social issues before I'll endorse someone. I think Ron Paul made one or two errors, as do most other people. Mind you, I want something CLOSE to the NAP, but if someone makes a small number of mistakes I may still endorse them.

    I have far less patience on foreign policy issues.

    I'm kinda sorry there, I'm just pretty much of a hardline purist when it comes to NAP adherence, if you want the right to claim the libertarian moniker. For instance, I see no way for a true libertarian to hold a political office or a government job, or even vote for that matter.

    Fish or cut bait. Them's the choices.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    That could then also mean that it's arguably not. Maybe just the current government fabricated scary boogie man, du jour.

    What's next OSIRIS?
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    I'm kinda sorry there, I'm just pretty much of a hardline purist when it comes to NAP adherence, if you want the right to claim the libertarian moniker. For instance, I see no way for a true libertarian to hold a political office or a government job, or even vote for that matter.

    Fish or cut bait. Them's the choices.
    Well, that's why guys like you get nowhere. Ron Paul has done more to advance liberty than all the non voting libertarians combined.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    Because ISIS is arguably a threat.
    Haven't seen those credible arguments yet.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    And yet even elements of RPF are clamoring for war with ISIS. I don't buy it yet.
    In the end, the people who matter are the intelligent ones.

    A few wayward, weak-minded waifs do not matter. They have no influence and, being unintelligent, no reliable way to go about obtaining it.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Well, that's why guys like you get nowhere. Ron Paul has done more to advance liberty than all the non voting libertarians combined.
    Really? I hadn't noticed. But then again, I've only been watching Ron for the last 30 years or so. Did I miss all of the legislation he got passed? Did I miss all of the national elections he won? My blanket elections boycott since 1972 have not changed the outcomes of ANY forgone opportunities. I at least consider myself to not be complicit in the continued subjugation and further enslavement of my brother and sister Americans. How about you?

    BTW, I'm just exactly where I want to be. Thank you very much. Get real!
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 09-06-2014 at 04:46 AM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    I see no way for a true libertarian to hold a political office or a government job, or even vote for that matter.
    None of those actions necessarily violates the NAP.

    They usually do.

    But it's possible to hold political office, hold a government job, and vote, without violating the NAP.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    None of those actions necessarily violates the NAP.

    They usually do.

    But it's possible to hold political office, hold a government job, and vote, without violating the NAP.
    Are all of those folks getting paid by voluntary contributions? I view voting as a form of stealth violence and aggression by the hiring of proxies, and as such also a blatant violation of the NAP.

    Any more questions?

  21. #18
    Did you miss all those people he woke up?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Contented View Post

    BTW, I'm just exactly where I want to be. Thank you very much. Get real!
    OK, I kind of would like to live in a society with less tyranny, but I'm glad you are happy anyway
    Last edited by William Tell; 09-05-2014 at 10:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    OK, I kind of would like to live in a society with less tyranny, but I'm glad you are happy anyway
    Might as well be, we've got a several light year journey ahead of us, in the opposite direction.

    Voting for less tyranny is like drinking for more sobriety.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Are all of those folks getting paid by voluntary contributions?
    Receiving any benefit that was funded involuntarily cannot be strictly against the NAP, in my opinion. If it were, then it would be against the NAP to:

    • Check out books and movies and otherwise obtain utility from the state library
    • Work as a truck driver, on a system of -- you guessed it -- state roads
    • Fly on an airplane that benefits from state air traffic controllers
    • Put money into a bank that benefits from an FDIC funds guarantee
    • Receive care in a state hospital or one that is so wrapped up in state money and control that it might as well be a part of the state
    • Shop at a grocery store whose parent company has used eminent domain multiple times in the past to secure land for new store locations
    • Buy food from farmers who have received agricultural subsidies

    Do you agree? Or have I failed to see some flaw in my logic?

    Here's an interesting case, how about this one:

    • Receive an income tax refund

    I view voting as a form of stealth violence and aggression by the hiring of proxies, and as such also a blatant violation of the NAP.
    Well, it depends on what one is voting for. If I vote "Yes" on the question "Should the state stop taxing people, liquidate its assets, and cease to exist?" or some lesser step to stop a NAP violation, such as "Should this state legalize marijuana?" I do not believe that I have violated the NAP by doing so. Now one vote doesn't matter, and so I probably won't bother to vote "Yes" on such a referendum, but I would be well within my libertarian rights to do so if I happened to have a lot of time to waste at the polls.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 09-05-2014 at 11:01 AM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Did you miss all those people he woke up?
    Maybe. What's the count? Enough to make him POTUS?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Receiving any benefit that was funded involuntarily cannot be strictly against the NAP, in my opinion. If it were, then it would be against the NAP to:

    • Check out books and movies and otherwise obtain utility from the state library
    • Work as a truck driver, on a system of -- you guessed it -- state roads
    • Fly on an airplane that benefits from state air traffic controllers
    • Put money into a bank that benefits from an FDIC funds guarantee
    • Receive care in a state hospital or one that is so wrapped up in state money and control that it might as well be a part of the state
    • Shop at a grocery store whose parent company has used eminent domain multiple times in the past to secure land for new store locations
    • Buy food from farmers who have received agricultural subsidies

    Do you agree? Or have I failed to see some flaw in my logic?

    Here's an interesting case, how about this one:

    • Receive an income tax refund

    Well, it depends on what one is voting for. If I vote "Yes" on the question "Should the state stop taxing people, liquidate its assets, and cease to exist?" or some lesser step to stop a NAP violation, such as "Should this state legalize marijuana?" I do not believe that I have violated the NAP by doing so. Now one vote doesn't matter, and so I probably won't bother to vote "Yes" on such a referendum, but I would be well within my libertarian rights to do so if I happened to have a lot of time to waste at the polls.
    Taxation is theft. Theft is aggression. Aggression is anti-NAP. I like things simple. It requires less typing.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kylejack View Post
    Haven't seen those credible arguments yet.
    Whether ISIS is a threat or not, they are the closest thing we have seen to a legitimate threat since before 9/11. Since we here on the libertarian ground are 1) The 'storefront' that most people see when they look at 'libertarians,' 2) unable to wield enough influence to make noticeable changes yet, and 3) pretty darn secure in our philosophies; wouldn't it make more sense to instead of just insisting that they cannot ever be a threat for any reason (clearly appearing irrational) state that, "there is a pretty good chance they are not really a threat, BUT if they were a threat, then this is the proper way to deal with them."

    If they turn out to not be a threat at all, everybody knows you were right, but that (to their surprise) you actually had a legitimate plan if they turned out to be a threat anyway. If they do turn out to be a threat after all, you already know that TPTB are going to screw it up, so either you look like the only guy who had a real answer, or you look just as dumb as the PTB who screwed it up.

    Strategically, politically, it is better to say, "I don't think they are that much of a threat, but if they were, then this is the best way to deal with it." than it is to say "Bull$#@!. Ignore them and they will go away." A month later some building blows up, maybe even completely unrelated, and in the eyes of 'your average voter' who is lacking credibility now?

    Whether ISIS is or is not a threat we have no way of knowing. All the actual information necessary to determine that is kept classified, and this government is bat-shirt insane, so there is no connection whatever between any evidence (or lack thereof) of threat and how the government chooses to respond.

    We won't know at this point in American civilization until something blows up (or fails to blow up) whether these people were in fact a threat or not. It could be the real thing, or it could be just some made up fantasy that some bean counter thinks will encourage us to support something awful they want to do.

    However, assuming it's real, assuming that they have declared some kind of war, and assuming they have legitimate plans to deal death and destruction here in the US, what is the proper response of a libertarian nation to address that threat? The NAP doesn't require 'just rolling over and taking it,' and electoral victory in the future requires people to see that we DO have some kind of plan in the event of the highly unlikely.

    Frankly, I think simply presuming these people are a major threat, is just as dumb as simply presuming they are not. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. If they are, then what do we do? Voters will be a lot more comfortable with a liberty minded President, if they understand that our philosophy allows for an effective self defense.

    It won't hurt to let the voters know that a Liberty President is not just going to roll over and let terrorists have free reign.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Taxation is theft. Theft is aggression. Aggression is anti-NAP. I like things simple. It requires less typing.
    But receiving funds or in-kind benefits that originally came from theft is not the same act as theft.

    I like things true. It requires more thinking.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Whether ISIS is a threat or not, they are the closest thing we have seen to a legitimate threat since before 9/11. Since we here on the libertarian ground are 1) The 'storefront' that most people see when they look at 'libertarians,' 2) unable to wield enough influence to make noticeable changes yet, and 3) pretty darn secure in our philosophies; wouldn't it make more sense to instead of just insisting that they cannot ever be a threat for any reason (clearly appearing irrational) state that, "there is a pretty good chance they are not really a threat, BUT if they were a threat, then this is the proper way to deal with them."

    If they turn out to not be a threat at all, everybody knows you were right, but that (to their surprise) you actually had a legitimate plan if they turned out to be a threat anyway. If they do turn out to be a threat after all, you already know that TPTB are going to screw it up, so either you look like the only guy who had a real answer, or you look just as dumb as the PTB who screwed it up.

    Strategically, politically, it is better to say, "I don't think they are that much of a threat, but if they were, then this is the best way to deal with it." than it is to say "Bull$#@!. Ignore them and they will go away." A month later some building blows up, maybe even completely unrelated, and in the eyes of 'your average voter' who is lacking credibility now?

    Whether ISIS is or is not a threat we have no way of knowing. All the actual information necessary to determine that is kept classified, and this government is bat-shirt insane, so there is no connection whatever between any evidence (or lack thereof) of threat and how the government chooses to respond.

    We won't know at this point in American civilization until something blows up (or fails to blow up) whether these people were in fact a threat or not. It could be the real thing, or it could be just some made up fantasy that some bean counter thinks will encourage us to support something awful they want to do.

    However, assuming it's real, assuming that they have declared some kind of war, and assuming they have legitimate plans to deal death and destruction here in the US, what is the proper response of a libertarian nation to address that threat? The NAP doesn't require 'just rolling over and taking it,' and electoral victory in the future requires people to see that we DO have some kind of plan in the event of the highly unlikely.

    Frankly, I think simply presuming these people are a major threat, is just as dumb as simply presuming they are not. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. If they are, then what do we do? Voters will be a lot more comfortable with a liberty minded President, if they understand that our philosophy allows for an effective self defense.

    It won't hurt to let the voters know that a Liberty President is not just going to roll over and let terrorists have free reign.
    First, it requires the nomination. Wake me later after that one's done and I'll give you the second step.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    But receiving funds or in-kind benefits that originally came from theft is not the same act as theft.

    I like things true. It requires more thinking.
    I believe that would be labeled as "an accessory after the fact". Though that's not exactly an area of my expertise.

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    I believe that would be labeled as "an accessory after the fact". Though that's not exactly an area of my expertise.

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
    So, am I an accessory after the fact, and guilty of violating the NAP, by using the local tax-funded library?

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    So, am I an accessory after the fact, and guilty of violating the NAP, by using the local tax-funded library?
    And driving on the public roads.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    So, am I an accessory after the fact, and guilty of violating the NAP, by using the local tax-funded library?
    Probably. The NAP CAN be a pretty heavy trip, for those looking for loopholes.

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