But Rand is, and I hope this doesn't hurt him.Originally Posted by pcosmar
I posted this in another thread on Kent Sorenson pleading guilty yesterday, here it is again for those that don't know and have missed some of the information:
"It's already been reported on some when it originally happened/broke. This is just a continuation of the original story. The FEC is currently investigating the campaign, and there were multiple staffers listed in the complaint to the FEC:
http://theiowarepublican.com/2014/fe...renson-payoff/
Which is why I think the campaign is sitting on so much cash still, to probably help fund the defense fund or certain staffers and/or pay any fees/fines. The campaign has been paying one law firm in the D.C. area several thousand dollars every single quarter, SINCE THE CAMPAIGN ENDED. Yet, it refused donation requests by some supporters, and said the amount on hand was over-stated (despite the FEC reports SHOWING us how much they claimed to have). They were lying, and have been lying, for years about a lot. Wasting people's time, and money. So they could get paychecks and nice cushy jobs?
Here are firms that received payment from Ron Paul 2012 just last quarter:
http://www.leclairryan.com/ ($6,000)
http://www.bblawonline.com/ ($19,000)
http://www.arentfox.com/ ($4,900)
http://www.andrewskurth.com/ ($2,900)
NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, that was in Ron Paul 2012 staff and has continued to defend what was/is a dishonest campaign, should be near Rand in 2016. If anybody wants to listen to an interview, on Ron Paul vs. Ron Paul Inc., here you go:
Not only does he discuss certain individuals by name, but you will also hear how Ron Paul Inc. is trying to filter the "riffraff" at conventions and seminars you may pay to attend. Which is very good to know, BEFORE YOU PAY MONEY, to attend one of them and fill out any paperwork or survey."
The innocents I'm concerned with, are the supporters. Those that gave money and time to a campaign that was helping Mitt Romney win the nomination, after it become apparent they had no chance to win. A campaign that kept begging, pleading, and lying to supporters in emails about what would be done with funds raised. Then having that campaign end abruptly in early June, BEFORE THE CONVENTION. So Rand could endorse Mitt Romney on national TV and get a speaking slot at the RNC?
So, then the Ron Paul 2012 campaign wouldn't even attend PaulFest in Florida, put on by supporters?
So then Jack Hunter could get a job with Rand, after poorly and horribly trying to defend Rand's horrid endorsement of Mitt Romney on RonPaul2012.com, the OFFICIAL campaign website?
So that Jesse Benton could get a job with Mitch McConnell?
So another Ron Paul 2012 staffer could get a job at with the RNC/GOP?
I certainly hope for some that have been banned from RPF over the years for being openly, legitimately, critical of Ron Paul 2012 and those associated with it, that Bryan will now go back and unban those accounts. And try to reach out to those people.
When you have moderators teaming up with people like Matt Collins though, defending him, banning users that called him names, but not banning Matt Collins when he does the exact same in return. It's pathetic.
When you have moderators openly lying about RPF members, name-calling members, deleting posts, not responding to PMs, making false claims about members, and banning members because the moderators apparently hate the truth and can't stand it, or simply don't like the tone of truth. That's pathetic.
At this point, I would actually suggest Bryan rename the forums, or redirect it to LibertyForest or another domain. We have no clue how deep this is going to go, but we do know the names of some being investigated by the FEC, as the first link above shows.
I know some people have absolutely HATED my posts critical about the campaign, but I have been warning about this for a while now.
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
John Tate too?
Waldron names several people involved in the Paul campaign, directly or indirectly, among those having knowledge of the alleged bribe. They are listed below as they appear in the complaint. PFP 2012 stands for Paul for President 2012:
Jesse Benton, Campaign Chairman, PFP 2012
John Tate, National Campaign Manager
Dimitri Kesari, Deputy National Campaign Manager, PFP 2012
Jedd Coburn, National Communications Director, PFP 2012
Drew Ivers, Iowa Campaign Chairman, PFP 2012
Kevin Wolfswinkel, PFP 2012, Chairperson for Iowa Conservatives Fund PAC
Yeah, I also asked in that thread I posted the original comment in, that I wonder if/when he'll resign from C4L because of this?
I recall getting lambasted as well when all that went down. I stopped donating to C4L shortly after that too.
Cursed at. Banned. Lied about. Name-called. George Washington was correct (if the quote is from him as I think), "Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
Moderators repeatedly making false statements, deleting posts, sending PMs making false claims. Telling me what I do/don't support, like they're mind readers (about as accurate as mind readers). Despite all that, I continued. And will, until Ron Paul 2012 starts giving refunds to supporters like they should have long ago when asked.
I should have added John Tate to my list though:
Jack Hunter gets job with Rand, after using RonPaul2012.com to defend a horrid endorsement of Mitt Romney.
Jesse Benton gets job with Mitch McConnell.
John Tate gets job at C4L.
Another RonPaul2012 staffer got a job with the GOP/RNC.
Doug Wead is the only one near the top of the campaign that apparently didn't get some cush job after the campaign, did he? Doug Wead was also one of the few staffers (the only one I'm actually aware of now), to interact with supporters, answer emails, etc.
One of the major problems I had with Ron Paul is that he couldn't lead very well; part of being a leader is being able to manage people. In a way the primaries serve as a test for the leadership capabilities of the respective candidates and their ability to effectively manage an organization. Ron Paul allowed himself to be surrounded with family friends, and less than trustworthy individuals taking advantage of him. In fact, some of the best stuff that was done for the Paul campaign was done by independent activists unaffiliated with the mismanaged central campaign. Jesse Benton was a major symptom of this weakness.
Rand Paul seems like he's better. Although he doesn't have very much leadership experience from his professional career, the guy is a natural. Clearly he knows how to organize people somewhat, although to what extent remains to be seen. I suppose the real test will be seeing the quality of his organization come 2016.
Any time we'd question Jessie Benton's actions, I distinctly remember Matt Collins repeatedly telling people, "Oh you don't know how politics works." —Like there was some great $#@!ing master plan to infiltrate the GOP by playing the game and rubbing elbows and high-fiving and chest bumping every statist politician in Washington.
Well, Benton ain't gonna be doing much elbow-rubbing in a jail cell, and any alleged 'benefit'** he was doing the liberty movement by working for Mitch McConnell has just been shot to hell and back.
In regards to the 'benefit'**:
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 08-30-2014 at 03:10 PM.
This is getting silly.T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Looks like we can kiss a Mitch endorsement of Rand in 2016 goodbye.
Hope you're happy with yourself, Benton.
There is only one Ron Paul. I guess it is too much to have expected he could have possibly surrounded himself with men of the same character as himself
There will always be opportunists hanging around anywhere there is potential for opportunity, and they will take advantage of those with integrity. It happens all the time.
If Ron had one blind spot it was the character of those he surrounded himself with.
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
same here. if benton is in the campaign, im out. no money, no sign hanging, no word of mouth, nothing. ill be done and out.
So I guess this means we aren't going to have a money bomb for Jesse's legal defense fund?
Last edited by orenbus; 08-30-2014 at 09:14 PM.
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams
Hmm you guys are starting to convince me, if Benton is involved in 2016.
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams
Attachment 3011
after reading this and now listening to the vid posted "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9FbTKRU-E", i AM DONE if benton or any of these others are involved. that includes collins as well. and thats what $#@!ing hurts me. ive defended collins many times here. i thought he got picked at to much. now, not so. and then to read that some of the mods here were involved in directing the conversation of said topics....i AM DONE if these certain people are involved with rand. DONE!
anyone that knows me personally would $#@! themselves to hear me say this. people here that know me WILL $#@! themselves when they see that im serious. this will break the camel in $#@!ing half if these people get involved.
i think i may have to take some time off from the forums for a little bit and see how this plays out. $#@!ing better NOT be true.
Yea I'm listening to that interview right now while searching for a video where Benton said "we didn't offer him any money."
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams
Without trying to sound pretentious, I want to say I understand exactly how Ron gets himself into these positions, as I have found myself in them before as well.
Short version: It is VERY hard to be a "leader", to bark orders and make commands and demand that things happen just as you want, when your whole personality is opposed to authoritarianism.
Burn...
That was already done by Ron Paul 2012 in February 2012, March 2012, April 2012, and May 2012. And it's probably why Ron Paul 2012 has been, and probably still is, paying those firms I linked above:
"Here are firms that received payment from Ron Paul 2012 just last quarter:
http://www.leclairryan.com/ ($6,000)
http://www.bblawonline.com/ ($19,000)
http://www.arentfox.com/ ($4,900)
http://www.andrewskurth.com/ ($2,900)"
What about Doug Stafford? Fusaro seemed to think he is all right.
Just reinforces my gladness that I didn't fall for the 2012 Ron Paul campaign from before it officially started. I always thought it was just piss poor excutive leadership on Ron's part but after he was elbow deep in trying to rip off ronpaul.com, my thoughts are changing. Remember staffers from Ron Paul 1988 went to jail as well. Something stinks about all of Rons business and campaign endevers. Yep I will be taking a closer look at Rand as well not because of his less than pure statements that rile the purists so much but how close he associates with his father and his fathers men. If he starts building a tract record of shady staffers I also might start looking elsewhere.
War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.
The problem with that is you tend to support even $#@!tier people than the Pauls.
I think Rand is going to have a lot of former McCain, Romney staffers in the leadership positions. If he gets RP 2012 staffers, I bet they go to his Senate campaign.
Rand hired Jack Hunter. Jack Hunter tried to basically tell us all we were stupid for not liking or understanding Rand's horrid endorsement of Mitt Romney. Jack Hunter used RonPaul2012.com to defend an endorsement of Mitt Romney. That, is/was PATHETIC.
I didn't know about staffers from Ron's 1988 campaign going to jail. *goes to Google
Found it. Just one staffer apparently, but his campaign manager. Interesting conspiracy theory attached with it:
""Finally, let me make a couple observations. The liberal media is ferociously attacking Ron this morning, on everything from the Newsletters to his various PACs. I’m amused at how off-base they all are. If they are looking for something that went un-explained after many years, it’s the Nadia Hayes incident from the end of the presidential campaign in 1988. I personally am still a little ticked off by this, and surprised that nobody has ever followed up on it. In brief, Nadia was Ron’s longtime business/campaign manager in the 1980s. On the very last day of the presidential campaign, attorneys, accountants, and even Nassau Bay police dept. investigation officials stormed into our campaign office, sealed everything off, rushed us campaign staffers into the storeroom (literally), and for hours on end ruffled through the entire campaign records, file cabinets, and other papers.
Lew Rockwell and Burton Blumert were there too. We were greatly surprised by this. Nadia was eventually convicted of embezzlement and went to jail for 6 months, plus had to pay $140,000 in restitution to Ron.
There were rumors at the time, and long thereafter, that Lew and Burt had pinned it all on Nadia, and that they had their own reasons for the “coup.” For years afterwards, Rockwell, and Blumert had complete control of Ron’s enterprises through Jean McIver and (former JBS/Jesse Helms fundraiser) David “James” Mertz of northern Virginia.
It was easy to pin it all on Nadia. She lived extravagantly, and her husband who owned a boat repair business in Clear Lake, had recently had some serious financial problems.
Nadia never resurfaced, and was never heard from again.
I will attest, that when campaign consultant Tony Payton died of heart failure, in 2002 I believe, I specifically asked Ron if I could look Nadia up, and contact her to let her know that her longtime friend had died, and he reacted sternly to me, expressing that he did not want me to do that, and if I did, there would be serious consequences. I was shocked. And this was one of the reasons I eventually left his staff.
http://www.rightwingnews.com/electio...anti-semitism/
Last edited by jjdoyle; 08-31-2014 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Added info on staffer jailed.
I think that is your problem.
War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.
Not really. You spend your time on a forum that supports the Pauls while not supporting them. Go to freerepublic.
Bryan, you and your moderators have banned people like cajuncocoa in the past for saying things similar to what klamath posted. You go right ahead and ban me. I don't care.
So looking back in retrospect as I try to bridge what we know now vs. what we knew back then, I notice there was at least one person back in December of 2011 that was asking the right questions at the time, while the rest of us (myself included probably) were drinking the kool-aid and slinging negative remarks and neg rep at him, and that person being KyleJack a forum member from 2007. Morale of the story is, even though we support a side or a person with passion and comittment, sometimes it makes sense to stay objective and at least approach the hard questions in a mature way in the pursuit for truth.
Anyway here is a report following the Kent Sorenson defection that we were looking at in terms of a official response to Bachmann's allegations that Sorenson had been paid off and Benton's response, still looking for another source but this is what I see so far.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...DPNP_blog.htmlBenton responded that the Paul campaign is not paying Sorenson.
Here are some of KyleJack's comments back in December 28/29th 2011:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3915586
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3914771
Some other comments at the time;
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3914912
I won't even quote the kool-aid enraged comments at the time, you can read them on your own in those threads, but just a heads up, its not pretty.
Last edited by orenbus; 08-31-2014 at 01:47 AM.
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams
RP was a loner too - I remember the jpg that was snapped of RP alone and
waiting for his bags at Reagan Airport to fly in for a congressional vote.
There was a lot of money - it came in faster than even RP might have thought especially initially in 2008 with "Meet Up" groups popping up everywhere.
renaming or consolidating the forums with redirects . . . I dunno
Rand is gonna want to be associated with people at the grassroots level in some ways still - and these forums work . . . I think.
Some will want to come back . . .
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