Why is Jesus' lineage traced back through Joseph?
Anyone, anyone, Bueller?
No, it was linked through Mary. Joseph was not Jesus' biological father.
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/geneology.htmlBoth Matthew and Luke signify that Joseph was not Jesus’ actual father but only his adoptive father, giving him legal right. Matthew departs from the style used throughout his genealogy when he comes to Jesus, saying: "Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." (Mt 1:16). Notice that he does not say ‘Joseph begat Jesus’ but that he was "the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born." Luke is even more pointed when, after showing earlier that Jesus was actually the Son of God by Mary (Luke 1:32-35), he says: "Jesus . . . being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Lu 3:23). Since Jesus was not the natural son of Joseph, but was the Son of God, Luke’s genealogy of Jesus would prove that he was, by human birth, a son of David through his natural mother Mary....
We may conclude that the two lists of Matthew and Luke fuse together the two truths, namely, (1) that Jesus was actually the Son of God and the natural heir to the Kingdom by miraculous birth through the virgin girl Mary, of David’s line, and (2) that Jesus was also the legal heir in the male line of descent from David and Solomon through his adoptive father Joseph (Lu 1:32, 35; Romans 1:1-4). If there was any accusation made by hostile Jews that Jesus’ birth was illegitimate, the fact that Joseph, aware of the circumstances, married Mary and gave her the protection of his good name and royal lineage refutes such slander.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
All scriptural genealogy follows the Male Family line.Originally Posted by Ronin Truth
The line of David,, as predicted by prophecy. (Family line)
Mary was of the line of Aaron,, Elizabeth's cousin.
He was both King and Priest. (by family lines)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Gee, I'm really so glad I asked. Do we have any mirrors to go with that smoke? Seriously folks, thanks.
Last edited by Ronin Truth; 08-27-2014 at 12:48 PM.
Joseph was Jesus' legal father. All lineages of adopted children were done that way.
And still are. In the state of California, if a child is born and both bio parents are listed on the BC, then the child is adopted by a new father, a new birth certificate is issued, and the new adopting father is listed as the bio-dad. All record of the bio-dad is removed from the newly issued birth cert, as if he never was.
Just a little factoid.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
That's deceptive and I think it is wrong. They should have BC and adoption BC.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
I agree wholeheartedly. But that's the goobermint for ya.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
^^Virgin births
- Buddha
- Krishna
- Odysseus
- Romulus
- Dionysus
- Heracles
- Glycon
- Zoroaster/Zarathustra
- Attis of Phrygia
- Horus
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 08-27-2014 at 02:47 PM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Seems there's been a little bit of artificial insemination going on over the millennia, aye?^^Virgin births
- Buddha
- Krishna
- Odysseus
- Romulus
- Dionysus
- Heracles
- Glycon
- Zoroaster/Zarathustra
- Attis of Phrygia
- Horus
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
Gotta give us Terra hominids a helpful leg up and a DNA boost or two for a shot at eventual Galactic Brotherhood membership.
Last edited by Ronin Truth; 08-27-2014 at 02:31 PM.
I've seen a few other ones like this. Kinda makes you wonder. Thanks! I'll save a copy in my pics folder.
- Buddha
- Krishna
- Odysseus
- Romulus
- Dionysus
- Heracles
- Glycon
- Zoroaster/Zarathustra
- Attis of Phrygia
- Horus
^^Virgin births
Fixed that for you.
Just a way for females to strip kids' biological fathers out of their lives. And it makes California a haven for females at war against the fathers of their children.
Charming stuff, eh?
Oh, and I've heard that 'virgin birth' was once commonly used to indicate the delivery of the woman's first child--typically the most dangerous delivery.
Last edited by acptulsa; 08-27-2014 at 03:08 PM.
To me, it's not so much that they were all virgin births, but more so when someone gets deified, those attributes are given to them (for whatever reason).
Very interesting, either way.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Kinda suggests the possibility that Jesus may have just been made up from earlier historical parts and pieces. I don't think I really just said that.
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Last edited by erowe1; 08-27-2014 at 03:14 PM.
the interwebz
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
Looks like a job for .... wait for it .......
Google bomb!
https://www.google.com/search?q=hist...gbv=2&oq=&gs_l=
So your best source for a historical claim you make about things that happened in 500-3000 BC is a website somebody made in AD 2014?
N.B. The first hit on that Google search contradicts your claims. Have you actually ever looked into them?
I like yours too.
You say, "when someone gets deified." When did this happen with Jesus?
Pitiful and lame, just what we've come to expect from you. Have you actually ever looked into them?
Probably a gradual process... I imagine the others were too - perhaps in a similar way for similar reasons.
For Jesus, I'm thinking through the 2nd and 3rd centuries leading up to the Nicene Council.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
For Jesus he was clearly already regarded as deity, and worshipped by Christians as God, earlier on than the very earliest Christian writings we have, which date to the 40's and 50's AD, including by people who walked with, talked with, and lived with Jesus in his earthly ministry. These same people believed he was born of a virgin.
This is very different from someone divinizing some ancient person, who may have been either fictional or real, that they believed to have lived hundreds or thousands of years before them.
Charming indeed. Yes, California government is probably the worst of all, but government in general, doesn't seem to be serving us very well any where.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
This evening it occurred to me that maybe God did in fact reach down and touch all of those guys.... in a similar way.
I'm thinking during the "lost years" - age 13 to 30 - Jesus spent some serious time with mystic gurus in India, Llamas in Tibet, Priests of Egypt, northern Iran with the Zoroastrian High Priests (the 'Magi') - and learned a WHOLE lot of ancient, mystic spiritual practices that hadn't been seen in the Holy Land region... things that were taken for miracles.
All those other guys may have had similar experiences.
I really believe humanity has lost touch with a lot of spiritual practices over the millennia... not by accident, either.
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 08-28-2014 at 12:00 AM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-genealogy.htmlQuestion: "Why are Jesus' genealogies in Matthew and Luke so different?"
Answer: Jesus' genealogy is given in two places in Scripture: Matthew 1 and Luke 3:23-38. Matthew traces the genealogy from Jesus to Abraham. Luke traces the genealogy from Jesus to Adam. However, there is good reason to believe that Matthew and Luke are in fact tracing entirely different genealogies. For example, Matthew gives Joseph's father as Jacob (Matthew 1:16), while Luke gives Joseph's father as Heli (Luke 3:23). Matthew traces the line through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6), while Luke traces the line through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31). In fact, between David and Jesus, the only names the genealogies have in common are Shealtiel and Zerubbabel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27).
Some point to these differences as evidence of errors in the Bible. However, the Jews were meticulous record keepers, especially in regard to genealogies. It is inconceivable that Matthew and Luke could build two entirely contradictory genealogies of the same lineage. Again, from David through Jesus, the genealogies are completely different. Even the reference to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel likely refer to different individuals of the same names. Matthew gives Shealtiel's father as Jeconiah while Luke gives Shealtiel's father as Neri. It would be normal for a man named Shealtiel to name his son Zerubbabel in light of the famous individuals of those names (see the books of Ezra and Nehemiah).
One explanation, held by the church historian Eusebius, is that Matthew is tracing the primary, or biological, lineage while Luke is taking into account an occurrence of “levirate marriage.” If a man died without having any sons, it was tradition for the man’s brother to marry the widow and have a son who would carry on the deceased man’s name. According to Eusebius’s theory, Melchi (Luke 3:24) and Matthan (Matthew 1:15) were married at different times to the same woman (tradition names her Estha). This would make Heli (Luke 3:23) and Jacob (Matthew 1:15) half-brothers. Heli then died without a son, and so his (half-)brother Jacob married Heil’s widow, who gave birth to Joseph. This would make Joseph the “son of Heli” legally and the “son of Jacob” biologically. Thus, Matthew and Luke are both recording the same genealogy (Joseph’s), but Luke follows the legal lineage while Matthew follows the biological.
Most conservative Bible scholars today take a different view, namely, that Luke is recording Mary’s genealogy and Matthew is recording Joseph’s. Matthew is following the line of Joseph (Jesus’ legal father), through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is following the line of Mary (Jesus’ blood relative), though David’s son Nathan. Since there was no Greek word for “son-in-law,” Joseph was called the “son of Heli” by marriage to Mary, Heli’s daughter. Through either Mary’s or Joseph’s line, Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore eligible to be the Messiah. Tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side is unusual, but so was the virgin birth. Luke’s explanation is that Jesus was the son of Joseph, “so it was thought” (Luke 3:23).
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-ge...#ixzz3BfPJMGIo
Zietgeisters strike again.
- Buddha
- Krishna
- Odysseus
- Romulus
- Dionysus
- Heracles
- Glycon
- Zoroaster/Zarathustra
- Attis of Phrygia
- Horus
^^Virgin births
Do we really need to debunk this again after all these years?
I disagree with erowe a lot, but WTF? He pointed out the flaws in the source YOU CITED. That's considered standard debate technique and is standard in every scholarly journal you'll pick up on any subject. (see for example the back and forths Walter Block and his critics occasionally have publicly in open letters and videos)
Matthew and Luke describe two slightly different lineages through the House of David - there are some differences along the way as the lineage
has a discrepancy . . . maybe I'll look it up after work today or the three-day weekend.
Mary's lineage is from the Protoevangelicum of James (mostly, but there are multiple sources worthy of study too numerous to enumerate this minute) -
at least we know of her mother Anna from multiple, non-sola scriptura sources . . . a Grandma (tutu) of the Christ child definitely, that Grandma Anna
. . . but Jesus probably/certainly never got to meet his grandmother as Mary had been given up to the temple at a very early age
(again, not sola scriptura sources . . . but of historical significance worthy of learning)
With the Holy Spirit as THE FATHER . . . well you all know how that goes,
The Visitation by the Angel Gabriel when Mary gets the news she is with child without "knowing" a man -
as accounted for in Luke - is especially beautiful,
and read on Christmas Eve dinner in my family tradition . . .
(along with the re-reading by US Navy pilot Astronaut Frank Borman,
reading from Genesis on Christmas Eve 1968 aboard Apollo 8 )
Noteworthy, that the Angel Gabriel here may be also alluded to in the Moslem faith's Quran
.
Last edited by extortion17; 08-28-2014 at 04:51 AM.
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