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Thread: The Final Chapter of Animal Farm has arrived

  1. #1

    The Final Chapter of Animal Farm has arrived

    The Final Chapter of Animal Farm has arrived

    August 26, 2014
    by Brian4Liberty

    (RPF) - Many people have pondered what has happened in American politics in recent years. The establishment Progressives, Socialists and Marxists have come to resemble crony corporatists. The US Chamber of Commerce and various big business interests work together with the left on Obamacare and on increasing immigration during a time of high unemployment and recession. The neo-conservatives and progressive interventionists have seemingly merged on foreign policy, with little difference remaining between Hillary Clinton and John McCain. What is going on?

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    It may seem as though some unique and striking changes have been occurring, but that is not the case. What has happened is that we have reached the final chapter of Animal Farm by George Orwell. This is more of a well-known progression rather than an unheard of development. A review of that final chapter paints a picture that could be a snapshot of America today. The last paragraph of the book sums it up well. The mundane animals of the farm are looking through a window at the private dining room of their leader, the pig Napoleon:

    - "Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    Today, we have President Obama, meeting in backrooms with the US Chamber of Commerce and big corporate interests, planning which executive actions will be taken to increase the flow of cheap labor. It is almost surprising that Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio are not in attendance. Is it possible to distinguish which is which?

    Uniting under the pro-war banner

    In the 2016 Presidential contest, Hillary Clinton is the leading pro-aggression war hawk running for President in either party. If she were to debate the inevitable neo-conservative backed candidates in the GOP, what could they disagree about? No doubt there would be some meaningless hair-splitting to exaggerate, but once again, would it be possible to tell them apart?

    The striking similarities to Animal Farm do not stop there. Orwell was prescient in his vision of the future, and this quote encompasses more than one example:

    - "Somehow it seemed as though the farm had grown richer without making the animals themselves any richer–except, of course, for the pigs and the dogs. Perhaps this was partly because there were so many pigs and so many dogs. It was not that these creatures did not work, after their fashion. There was, as Squealer was never tired of explaining, endless work in the supervision and organisation of the farm."

    Destruction of the Middle Class


    That brings to mind perhaps the most damaging development of the past decade or more, which has been the destruction of the middle-class. And those on both the left and right have noticed the glaring and growing gulch between "the haves and the have nots". But as Orwell observed, there is "endless work in the supervision and organisation of the farm."

    The leviathan of government continues to expand. Quite often, the only hope of a decent wage for an American is working for the government or for a government contractor. Even the Unions have conceded, and have taken a seat at Napoleon's table, focusing more on being the Human Resources department for government employees.

    If one were to listen to the nightly news, you might hear a statistic on employment or economic growth that provides some hope. Once again, official statistics were also a standard fixture on the Animal Farm:

    - "There was nothing with which they could compare their present lives: they had nothing to go upon except Squealer's lists of figures, which invariably demonstrated that everything was getting better and better."

    Ferguson and Police militarization

    In the realm of current events, another similarity can be found in the "supervision" and dogs aspect of Orwell's Farm. Recent events in Ferguson, Missouri have highlighted a certain unease in the air about the militarization of the Police in America. We now have domestic Police that resemble an invading army in terms of equipment and tactics. Is it easy to tell the difference between a middle of the night SWAT raid in America, and house searches by the military in Iraq or Afghanistan?

    "We have rights in America!" is often heard in opposition to the growing police state in America. People tend to only think about rights when police take excessive action, when a person is subjected to TSA groping and naked scanning, or all of their personal information is captured by the NSA. For the most part, the resulting discussion is not about natural rights, or even the subset of rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. It's just a vague reference to some general "American" rights, rights that many have a hard time specifically recalling.

    Once again, Orwell has one more prediction for those who want to reference their rights as defined by law. Forget about all of those archaic rights, or the more popular "human rights" that are in vogue today. The new Constitution has been written, and whether by actual amendment, or more likely via steady erosion of the current Bill of Rights, Orwell has predicted your new law:

    - "There was nothing there now except a single Commandment. It ran: ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS."
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Best damned US government that the Rothschild's bazillions can buy for the NWO.

  4. #3
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    Imagine what Pixar could do with subject material like Animal Farm? Though it's probably too gritty and hard-hitting for them.

  5. #4
    Mccain and Clinton are not progressives. Next.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Mccain and Clinton are not progressives. Next.
    You are right, he's a war mongering fascist and she's a one world government NWO socialist. They do appear to be happy with each other though. Go figure.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Mccain and Clinton are not progressives. Next.
    Progressives, conservatives, tea partiers, libertarians even, they are normally Oligarchs posing under different labels.
    Summum Jus, Summa Iniuria - More Law, Less Justice

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Mccain and Clinton are not progressives. Next.
    Clinton is a self-professed "progressive". McCain is a progressive as well. What is your definition of progressive?



    Here's McCain's record proving he's a progressive: http://thatsmycongress.com/senate/se...CainAZ111.html
    Last edited by Deborah K; 08-26-2014 at 04:23 PM.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The Final Chapter of Animal Farm has arrived

    August 26, 2014
    by Brian4Liberty

    (RPF) - Many people have pondered what has happened in American politics in recent years. The establishment Progressives, Socialists and Marxists have come to resemble crony corporatists. The US Chamber of Commerce and various big business interests work together with the left on Obamacare and on increasing immigration during a time of high unemployment and recession. The neo-conservatives and progressive interventionists have seemingly merged on foreign policy, with little difference remaining between Hillary Clinton and John McCain. What is going on?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	121127_clinton_mccain_605.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	49.0 KB 
ID:	2961

    It may seem as though some unique and striking changes have been occurring, but that is not the case. What has happened is that we have reached the final chapter of Animal Farm by George Orwell. This is more of a well-known progression rather than an unheard of development. A review of that final chapter paints a picture that could be a snapshot of America today. The last paragraph of the book sums it up well. The mundane animals of the farm are looking through a window at the private dining room of their leader, the pig Napoleon:

    - "Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    Today, we have President Obama, meeting in backrooms with the US Chamber of Commerce and big corporate interests, planning which executive actions will be taken to increase the flow of cheap labor. It is almost surprising that Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio are not in attendance. Is it possible to distinguish which is which?

    Uniting under the pro-war banner

    In the 2016 Presidential contest, Hillary Clinton is the leading pro-aggression war hawk running for President in either party. If she were to debate the inevitable neo-conservative backed candidates in the GOP, what could they disagree about? No doubt there would be some meaningless hair-splitting to exaggerate, but once again, would it be possible to tell them apart?

    (...)
    Excellent article!
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    Clinton is a self-professed "progressive". McCain is a progressive as well. What is your definition of progressive?



    Here's McCain's record proving he's a progressive: http://thatsmycongress.com/senate/se...CainAZ111.html
    She lied to appeal to the base, I'm sure in your world that never happens.

    And LMAO AT THAT LINK!!!! It says mccain got a 14 out of 100 score for being a progressive, PROVING THAT HE IS NOT!!! LOL you can't make this comedy up!

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    She lied to appeal to the base, I'm sure in your world that never happens.

    And LMAO AT THAT LINK!!!! It says mccain got a 14 out of 100 score for being a progressive, PROVING THAT HE IS NOT!!! LOL you can't make this comedy up!
    You don't think someone's voting record kind of proves where their thinking lies???? Do you think Dr. Paul would have ever voted for that $#@!? He's given the progressives campaign finance reform and authored immigration reform. Do you even know what Clinton's voting record was when she was a senator??? Or do you need someone to pull that up for your lazy ass too?
    Last edited by Deborah K; 08-26-2014 at 04:39 PM.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  13. #11
    Yes I'm sure in your fantasy world scoring 14 out of 100 on a progressive scorecard means that person is a progressive...

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Yes I'm sure in your fantasy world scoring 14 out of 100 on a progressive scorecard means that person is a progressive...
    Did you look at what he voted on?? That is what is important, not that he scored low on a progressive site. If a sandwich is 95% meat and 5% $#@!, it is still a $#@! sandwich.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Yes I'm sure in your fantasy world scoring 14 out of 100 on a progressive scorecard means that person is a progressive...

    ?????
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  16. #14
    56k, I'm curious as to your definition of progressivism. Care to define it?
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  17. #15
    Wow two out of the four "progressive" things he has done according to your link is cut wasteful defense spending.

    LMAO isn't that what Ron Paul has advocated?

    Please stop, this is just too embarrassing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    56k, I'm curious as to your definition of progressivism. Care to define it?
    People like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich are progressives. Clinton and Obama are not.
    Last edited by 56ktarget; 08-26-2014 at 04:57 PM.

  18. #16
    Double
    Last edited by 56ktarget; 08-26-2014 at 04:57 PM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    People like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich are progressives.
    And you determine this how?
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    People like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich are progressives. Clinton and Obama are not.
    That must be a popular opinion over at Democratic Underground.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Wow two out of the four "progressive" things he has done according to your link is cut wasteful defense spending.

    LMAO isn't that what Ron Paul has advocated?

    Please stop, this is just too embarrassing...
    Okay, okay so you think the link I posted is laughable, I'll admit it was a hasty choice to make a point. His progressive stance on finance reform and immigration is enough. Cutting defense spending isn't a progressive act so I don't even know why that is listed as progressive. $#@!ty link, I'll give you that. Doesn't change my '$#@! sandwich' analogy though.

    (let's see how many times I can use the word "$#@!" in one thread)
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  23. #20
    The top donors for both the Republicans and Democrats are Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs, and radical, leftist Jewish organizations, such as AIPAC.

    This is why both parties seem so similar, and are now eye to eye on lot of issues, like giving the green light mass third-world immigration, gay marriage, and attacking every single nation in the Middle East surrounding Israel.

    Washington has literally become one gigantic mouthpiece and enforcer for the radical left; thus why their policies seem alien to the majority.

    The commie scum that Senator McCarthy warned about have taken over.
    Last edited by DFF; 08-26-2014 at 05:49 PM.

  24. #21
    I think it is time for 56K to go away. It seems that most posts are inflammatory, undermining, and intended to cause conflict. Results that threads are derailed by arguing over subjective unrelated smaller specific points and detracts focus from the Big Picture, the danger of an unrestricted uncontrolled tyrannical government.

    ---

    The OP is outstanding. We are in the Last Chapter of American History, not just Animal Farm. This is how Freedom dies; with thunderous applause by those who profess to be our Elected Leaders. They hide behind our Security. They hide behind our Children. They hide behind the American Flag carrying a Bible. Thei hide their own immoral actions from their own consciences and justify all the tragic consequences. They really believe that they are "doing good" for not only the country, but the world as a whole. They really believe the world needs them to "change and fix things". There are probably a few members of The Powers That Be that are fully aware of the consequences and how destructive their decisions are, but the people whose strings they pull believe the Puppetmasters and buy into their propoganda. Propoganda doesnt just affect those at the bottom, but all the way up the power pyramid. Our elected officials wear Chains of Obedience that they preciously revere. The Chains of Obedience of the Elected are not physical, but Financial, Political, and Informational. They are fed a continuous diet of bad information that alters their perspective of their actions from once being deplorable to completely justified.

    This Human Farm is on the edge of eating itself.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Imagine what Pixar could do with subject material like Animal Farm? Though it's probably too gritty and hard-hitting for them.
    There's no need for Pixar to make an animated feature of Animal Farm, because back in 1954 an English company made an absolutely brilliant piece of classic hand-drawn animation of it. Very faithful to the story, and the artwork is beautiful.

    The full movie is on YouTube!



    The final scene mentioned in the op starts at ~1:06:30

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The Final Chapter of Animal Farm has arrived...

    What has happened is that we have reached the final chapter of Animal Farm by George Orwell... The last paragraph of the book sums it up well. The mundane animals of the farm are looking through a window at the private dining room of their leader, the pig:

    - "Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    Today, we have President Obama, meeting in backrooms with the US Chamber of Commerce and big corporate interests, planning which executive actions will be taken to increase the flow of cheap labor. It is almost surprising that Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio are not in attendance. Is it possible to distinguish which is which?
    But sometime, watch it from the beginning, as it's well worth it.
    Last edited by francisco; 08-26-2014 at 07:13 PM.
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  26. #23
    ...on increasing immigration during a time of high unemployment and recession.
    This is where you lost me. We know for a fact immigration rates decrease or even go negative in recessions and high unemployment rate periods, and that immigration rates go up in booms and times of high employment rates. It never ceases to amaze me how people abandon free market principles when it comes to levels of immigration. The government can't run the post office, and yet you think they know what the immigration quotas should be? (The quotas shouldn't exist according to a free market principles.)

    Immigration is not positively correlated to native unemployment rates. They are negatively correlated, in fact. And here comes the disproven (with data) myth that "you can't have open borders in a welfare state" (one of the few things Milton Friedman was wrong about). Whatever. Carry on...who cares if immigration is known to be conducive to economic growth and increases in native standards of living. Who cares if immigrants get on welfare at lower rates than natives and commit crimes at lower rates than natives. Who cares...oh, never mind. Evidence and logic doesn't matter on this topic, and I've already seen that time and again around here. Confirmation bias in 3,2,1...
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post

    Yes, I want to force consumers to buy trampolines, popcorn, environmental protection and national defense whether or not they really demand them. And I definitely want to outlaw all alternatives. Nobody should be allowed to compete with the state. Private security companies, private healthcare, private package delivery, private education, private disaster relief, private militias...should all be outlawed.
    ^Minimalist state socialism (minarchy) taken to its logical conclusions; communism.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Imagine what Pixar could do with subject material like Animal Farm? Though it's probably too gritty and hard-hitting for them.
    They would probably completely change the allegory. The new version would be about sexual orientation and gender identity. And all of the creatures in the big house would get a nice laugh out of it.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ProIndividual View Post
    This is where you lost me. We know for a fact immigration rates decrease or even go negative in recessions and high unemployment rate periods, and that immigration rates go up in booms and times of high employment rates. It never ceases to amaze me how people abandon free market principles when it comes to levels of immigration. The government can't run the post office, and yet you think they know what the immigration quotas should be? (The quotas shouldn't exist according to a free market principles.)

    Immigration is not positively correlated to native unemployment rates. They are negatively correlated, in fact. And here comes the disproven (with data) myth that "you can't have open borders in a welfare state" (one of the few things Milton Friedman was wrong about). Whatever. Carry on...who cares if immigration is known to be conducive to economic growth and increases in native standards of living. Who cares if immigrants get on welfare at lower rates than natives and commit crimes at lower rates than natives. Who cares...oh, never mind. Evidence and logic doesn't matter on this topic, and I've already seen that time and again around here. Confirmation bias in 3,2,1...
    "Open borders" implies a free flow of traffic both ways. Any idea what Mexico's immigration policy is? Have you heard what has happened to one of our Marines (who had legal weapons in his car) for taking the wrong lane at the border and ending up in Mexico?

    What we have for a border is a one-way flow with a check valve. It isn't working.

    And deliberately increasing the flow of illegal immigration while offering welfare is a tactic to get support from the recipients. Both parties are guilty of authoring amnesty bills.
    Last edited by Deborah K; 08-27-2014 at 09:57 AM. Reason: clarity
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ProIndividual View Post
    This is where you lost me. We know for a fact immigration rates decrease or even go negative in recessions and high unemployment rate periods, and that immigration rates go up in booms and times of high employment rates. It never ceases to amaze me how people abandon free market principles when it comes to levels of immigration. The government can't run the post office, and yet you think they know what the immigration quotas should be? (The quotas shouldn't exist according to a free market principles.)

    Immigration is not positively correlated to native unemployment rates. They are negatively correlated, in fact. And here comes the disproven (with data) myth that "you can't have open borders in a welfare state" (one of the few things Milton Friedman was wrong about). Whatever. Carry on...who cares if immigration is known to be conducive to economic growth and increases in native standards of living. Who cares if immigrants get on welfare at lower rates than natives and commit crimes at lower rates than natives. Who cares...oh, never mind. Evidence and logic doesn't matter on this topic, and I've already seen that time and again around here. Confirmation bias in 3,2,1...
    Fact: By percentage, more naturalized immigrants voted for Ron Paul during the primary than native born U.S. citizens.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    Fact: By percentage, more naturalized immigrants voted for Ron Paul during the primary than native born U.S. citizens.
    Key word here being "naturalized". Pro Indy likes to conflate legal immigration with illegal immigration.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  32. #28
    Immigration is just one aspect of the article, and it serves to illuminate the crony relationship between many of the parties involved, including Obama, the US Chamber of Commerce, Jeb Bush and many other politicians and special interests. None of these parties have limiting (or eliminating) government, or a border-less world as part of their agenda.

    Let's save the immigration debate for a purely immigration thread.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by francisco View Post
    There's no need for Pixar to make an animated feature of Animal Farm, because back in 1954 an English company made an absolutely brilliant piece of classic hand-drawn animation of it. Very faithful to the story, and the artwork is beautiful.

    But sometime, watch it from the beginning, as it's well worth it.
    And here's a much shorter version, with added clips...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Immigration is just one aspect of the article, and it serves to illuminate the crony relationship between many of the parties involved, including Obama, the US Chamber of Commerce, Jeb Bush and many other politicians and special interests. None of these parties have limiting (or eliminating) government, or a border-less world as part of their agenda.

    Let's save the immigration debate for a purely immigration thread.
    A border-less world would serve a global government well. And, in my flea bitten opinion, that is the ultimate goal of these creeps - that is to say - they are incrementally working toward global governance.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

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