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Thread: Can someone succinctly explain to me Libertarianism?

  1. #1

    Can someone succinctly explain to me Libertarianism?

    I find some of the rhetoric appealing; individual liberty, freedom, yada yada. However, I've never really had it explained to me in plain English on what it actually is? "Just read the Constitution" is kind of lame to me. I mean, why should I care what a bunch of slave-owning misogynists with powder wigs had to say in an era that was radically different from the one we live in today? Isn't the Constitution interpreted in different ways and manipulated by cunning lawyers in business suits on a daily basis? Why the obsession with the Constitution? Is it even being followed anymore?

    Anyway, I get the impression some of you folks want to take us back into the hunter-gatherer days. I'm not really into the whole 'tribal' thing, so that isn't cool to me. I'm a futurist who loves technology. I believe in safety nets, I'm not a fan of war, and I find the masses to be incompetent. I have a little bit of the 'nanny' state in me.

    However, I am open-minded and I'm willing to listen. Anyone up to educating me on the philosophy of the movement? Is it simply "mind your own business" or does it go a bit deeper?

    Please don't tell me to read the Constitution



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  3. #2















    Last edited by presence; 08-25-2014 at 08:03 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  4. #3

  5. #4
    I'm sure you'll get plenty of thoughtful answers from the more generous around here, but as far as I'm concerned, your comments in the OP make me feel as though you're either not serious, or just an idiot.

    I don't waste my time with smart aleck, pseudo intellectual punks.


    Here's one quick tip that'll get you going:

    Your first lesson in libertarianism is to go read and learn for yourself rather than count on someone else to do it for you. There you go...nice and succinct.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    However, I've never really had it explained to me in plain English on what it actually is? " Why the obsession with the Constitution? Is it even being followed anymore?
    are you serious? pretty frickin simple dude.
    in a Republic, you have the "rule of law" the rule of law can be based on anything and applied to anyone.
    ours is focused on the federal gov't. it does not apply to you or me.

    it is YOUR duty to find out what it is and what it means.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  7. #6
    Don't hit me
    Don't take my stuff
    Live by the Golden Rule

  8. #7
    Libertarian Litmus Test

    Rothbard famously asked “Do you hate the state?” when attempting to come up with a standard which might be used to determine whether or not one has the proper philosophical starting point in approaching the state. If one’s “libertarianism” is about making states more efficient, or “better” (if by “better” one means something other than “smaller” or “weaker”) then one is likely not a libertarian. At least philosophically.

    So now let’s come up with a practical policy-based standard for determining if one is or is not a libertarian. I would submit that anyone who is in favor of raising taxes or increasing government revenue in any way is not a libertarian. Justin Amash’s recent comment that raising taxes or increasing government revenues is all something he could be convinced to support, is absolutely un-libertarian. Raising taxes is not “Fabianism in reverse” or libertarian incrementalism at all. It is, purely and simply, making the government larger and stronger. Giving more resources to the government, even without actually raising tax rates themselves, is making government bigger. This is not a complicated argument.

    “Starve the Beast” used to a position of mainline conservatives who didn’t even pretend to be libertarian. Justin Amash can’t even live up the professed standards of 1980s Republicans. I’m not sure if Amash has ever actually claimed to be a libertarian, but he’s not even a “conservative” by the standards of that movement as used in the 1960s and 1970s.

    Nevertheless, many insist on calling Amash a libertarian, and now, for this “libertarian,” tax increases are “on the table.” This is “Fabianism in reverse” in reverse.

  9. #8
    Leave me alone.

    Mind your own business.



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  11. #9
    It's like making love to Jessica Alba,in a hot-tub,on acid,only better.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  12. #10
    I still like Amash. I have to agree that he's not a libertarian though. He's just an actual conservative, similar to Rand Paul (though somewhat better on actual policy). I'd love to live in a world where Rand and Amash would look like fascists with their current positions, but right now they are some of the most freedom-supporting guys in the congress which, sad as that may be, makes me have to support them.

    As for libertarianism, its been explained above.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    It's like making love to Jessica Alba,in a hot-tub,on acid,only better.
    Is that speaking from experience?

  14. #12
    A fairly succinct definition is that libertarianism is the belief that people should have the right to do whatever they want as long as doing so doesn't infringe on someone elses right to do the same. The role of government should be limited to protecting this right and the government should be as local and small as possible.

    In reality there are a million corner cases that aren't all that clear under this definition and volumes of philosophy have been written trying to hash it all out. For example nearly everything in some way is taking away someone elses right. Someone may want the right not to hear music at night, but you may want the right to play music at night. Whose right is more important?

    FWIW I do agree with you that trying to cite the constitution or 300 year old men to justify your philosophy is a cop out and logical fallacy.
    Last edited by brandon; 08-25-2014 at 08:25 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    It's like making love to Jessica Alba,in a hot-tub,on acid,only better.
    clearly you have never had sex while on acid or been in a hot tub on acid

  16. #14
    Smoke a lot of weed and all is cooool man.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
    clearly you have never had sex while on acid or been in a hot tub on acid
    I was there, but I ain't tellin either.

    Last edited by HVACTech; 08-25-2014 at 08:39 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  18. #16
    dup, slow interwebs..
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    Smoke a lot of weed and all is cooool man.
    One of the top five worst trolls here, OP.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    A fairly succinct definition is that libertarianism is the belief that people should have the right to do whatever they want as long as doing so doesn't infringe on someone elses right to do the same. The role of government should be limited to protecting this right and the government should be as local and small as possible.

    In reality there are a million corner cases that aren't all that clear under this definition and volumes of philosophy have been written trying to hash it all out. For example nearly everything in some way is taking away someone elses right. Someone may want the right not to hear music at night, but you may want the right to play music at night. Whose right is more important?

    FWIW I do agree with you that trying to cite the constitution or 300 year old men to justify your philosophy is a cop out and logical fallacy.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Re what is in bold: See this is what I have trouble understanding. If we were to theoretically break up into 'nation states' what would prevent the wealthier, hi-tech, better armed states from conquering their neighbors?

  22. #19
    This goes here.



    Sing it...say it...
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 08-25-2014 at 08:49 PM.

  23. #20
    Supporting Member
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    This video sums it up well for me.

    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    Re what is in bold: See this is what I have trouble understanding. If we were to theoretically break up into 'nation states' what would prevent the wealthier, hi-tech, better armed states from conquering their neighbors?
    Well armed populous.


    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  25. #22
    I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of zero regulations. That seems to me like it would lead to a corporate dystopia.

    (I am economically illiterate)

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of zero regulations. That seems to me like it would lead to a corporate dystopia.

    (I am economically illiterate)


    Perhaps what we should do then is create thousands of regulations and have corporate lobbists write them.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of zero regulations. That seems to me like it would lead to a corporate dystopia.

    (I am economically illiterate)
    Who do you think lobbies for these regulation that put the little guy out of business?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Perhaps what we should do then is create thousands of regulations and have corporate lobbists write them.
    Yeah, I realize that corporations and government are engaged but they're not married yet. I'm afraid they'll get married, divorce, and one will walk away with all the money.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    This goes here.



    Sing it...say it...
    methinks, thou art just playin nice..

    Last edited by HVACTech; 08-25-2014 at 08:59 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Who do you think lobbies for these regulation that put the little guy out of business?

    But wouldn't they put them out of business if there was no government oversight anyway? The big guys would crush the little guys without restraint.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    Yeah, I realize that corporations and government are engaged but they're not married yet. I'm afraid they'll get married, divorce, and one will walk away with all the money.
    Hence: Reduce scale and authority of the state => Reduce power of special interest lobby => Prosperous Middle Class

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    But wouldn't they put them out of business if there was no government oversight anyway? The big guys would crush the little guys without restraint.
    In practice... you'll find the restraint is all on the little guy. Have you ever attempted to start a small business?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of zero regulations. That seems to me like it would lead to a corporate dystopia.

    (I am economically illiterate)
    OK, so if you are economically illiterate, why on earth would you dare to suggest that you think its OK to forcibly regulate other people?

    I'm not the best at economics either. Better than some, but not great. But that's OK for me, because I don't advocate regulating other people.

    If you do advocate such, you had DARN WELL better know why.

    I hope that doesn't come across as too harsh, but its something that needs to be understood.

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