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Thread: Time for Libertarians to Put on Their Big Boy Pants (and embrace interventionism)

  1. #1

    Time for Libertarians to Put on Their Big Boy Pants (and embrace interventionism)

    http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2014/...inglepage=true

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ Media
    I have always had a certain sympathy for libertarianism and it has only grown during the Obama administration. Who could believe in big government living under the fiasco of this man’s presidency?

    And I am certainly not alone. Libertarianism, if we are to believe none other than The New York Times, has become quite chic.

    But paradoxically, during this same time frame, it has become perhaps even more evident that one of the apparent tenets of libertarianism — a kind of neo-isolationism — is, well, to put it bluntly, insane. In the era of the Islamic State (not to mention a dozen other similar murderous, increasingly global organizations we could name or are being invented as I write), anyone who believes we can roll up the gangplanks to create the perfect libertarian state and everything will be just ducky is living in dreamland.

    But a fair number of libertarians are. As an example, one of the leading spokesmen for the movement (I’ll be gracious by not naming him, because he’s probably embarrassed at this point) was quoted as likening the problem of Islamic terrorism to herpes — I guess he meant an annoyance you can live with if you find the right partner (who doesn’t behead you).

    Do those same isolationist libertarians think that one Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, current leader of the Islamic State, was kidding when he said “See you in New York” when let out of detention camp in Iraq in 2009? If not, what do they propose to do about it? Wait until he is in New York? Maybe Eric Holder will arrest him. Or maybe he’ll blow up the Stock Exchange and sink the free market. Or one of his now thousands of minions will. Do you want to sit back to wait to find out? And what about all the unknown unknowns lurking out there?



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  3. #2
    http://www.voxday.blogspot.com/2014/...tleground.html

    Roger Simon needs to stop worrying about other men's pants and start looking at the consequences of the idiot interventionist and immigrationist policies he has advocated in the past:
    [....]
    Simon doesn't stop to think that the reason the USA is in such a parlous state is the direct result of a) American military interventions, and b) America's quasi-open immigration policies. It's always interesting to see naive commentators ignorant of basic military history babbling about war, because the Clausewitzian center of gravity is NOT in the Middle East, Syria, or even Iraq. It is in the West. The war in the East cannot be seriously fought until the war in the West is won; contra the insistence of the WWI-era generals, offense is not the way to win a war.

    UPDATE: To say nothing of the fact that this is the same guy who wanted the USA to remove Assad from power last year, which would have assured that ISIS was even better established in the region than it is now.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  4. #3
    Will PJ Media and the rest of the neocons who cheered on the war with Iraq ever admit they were wrong?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Will PJ Media and the rest of the neocons who cheered on the war with Iraq ever admit they were wrong?
    They seemed to be fading away, but they're emboldened by the ISIS, which is their new boogeyman for more war in the Middle East.

  6. #5
    the desperate pleas of the dying neocon faction are music to my ears

  7. #6
    Libertarians will embrace interventionism when radical Islamists start worshiping the Pope.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  8. #7
    was quoted as likening the problem of Islamic terrorism to herpes
    Who's he talking about?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    They seemed to be fading away, but they're emboldened by the ISIS, which is their new boogeyman for more war in the Middle East.
    But of course ISIS wouldn't exist if Saddam was still around



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  11. #9
    When is Roger Simon at least going to get into pull ups and quit peeing his diapers over "all the unknown unknowns lurking out there"?

    In other words, it’s time for libertarians to put on their big boy pants and give some serious thought not just to national defense but to global defense, because I have some news for them: The Pax Americana was the real deal. It worked for decades, saving myriad lives, and now it’s almost gone. We have seen that writ large for us in the last few years as never before. Obama’s non-existent, feckless, reactionary, confused, absurd (or whatever other adjective you want to pick) “leading from behind” foreign policy has brought the world to the brink of madness as nothing since WWII.
    Absolute blindness.
    "The Patriarch"

  12. #10

  13. #11
    I agree. We need to be at the forefront of every war. We are #1 after all, and we can't be #1 if we're peacenik panzies who let the terrorists win.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    But of course ISIS wouldn't exist if Saddam was still around
    In Syria ISIS would still exist

  15. #13

  16. #14
    DD-214 showing his service in Iraq or STFU.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    In Syria ISIS would still exist
    Unlikely to be a significant force without the massive US aid that has flowed their way for years.

  18. #16
    Do those same isolationist libertarians think that one Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, current leader of the Islamic State, was kidding when he said “See you in New York” when let out of detention camp in Iraq in 2009? If not, what do they propose to do about it? Wait until he is in New York? Maybe Eric Holder will arrest him. Or maybe he’ll blow up the Stock Exchange and sink the free market. Or one of his now thousands of minions will. Do you want to sit back to wait to find out? And what about all the unknown unknowns lurking out there?
    Blowing up a building won't sink the free market.

    excessive policing of an authoritarian government involved in the redistribution of wealth. - Ron Paul
    That will.

    And a government constantly at war and constantly broke, will become an authoritarian government, where you will have neither rights nor free markets.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And a government constantly at war and constantly broke, will become an authoritarian government, where you will have neither rights nor free markets.
    Even during middle school, and a public school at that, the term "guns and butter" was used, a term that our handlers conveniently "forgot."
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  21. #18
    Do you want to sit back to wait to find out?
    Yea I do.

  22. #19
    Time for interventionists to put their brains back in heads and to begin supporting, minding our own business.

  23. #20
    Dude, our sane foreign policy is a key reason why libertarianism is becoming so popular in the first place!

    /so lame.
    The bigger government gets, the smaller I wish it was.
    My new motto: More Love, Less Laws

  24. #21
    The US only has to deal with IS because Obama bombed them. They should have been left alone, not our problem, they weren't threatening the US previously.

  25. #22
    I am going to smack the crap out of the next person who uses the term about big boys and pants.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    In Syria ISIS would still exist
    Not if we weren't funding the Overthrow of Assad.
    If we had stayed out of it,, that war would have been over long ago... and the ISIS would not exist beyond a few de-funded CIA assets.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    The US only has to deal with IS because Obama bombed them. They should have been left alone, not our problem, they weren't threatening the US previously.
    But he had to save the Satan worshipers Religious Minority.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  29. #25
    I've been told that if drugs were legal, people would do drugs.
    Thank goodness they are illegal, now no one is doing drugs.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    I agree. We need to be at the forefront of every war. We are #1 after all, and we can't be #1 if we're peacenik panzies who let the terrorists win.
    Head...meet wall..

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I am going to smack the crap out of the next person who uses the term about big boys and pants.
    just reply back..'engage brain before using mouth'

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    But he had to save the Satan worshipers Religious Minority.
    They aren't actually Satan worshipers. IS and I think most Sunnis think the chief holy being or angel Malek Taus, that Yazidis believe in is Satan. But this is not what the Yazidis believe.

    But, anyway, yeah.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    They aren't actually Satan worshipers. IS and I think most Sunnis think the chief holy being or angel Malek Taus, that Yazidis believe in is Satan. But this is not what the Yazidis believe.

    But, anyway, yeah.
    don't care....just thought you should know.

  34. #30
    Time for the interventionists to put on their big boy pants, and constitutionally declare the wars they claim are so necessary. Time for them to officially declare who the enemy is that we are in a state of war with, and what is the specific exit or closure from this war. Statutorily, it's at least time for them to call out the President for unlawfully extending military action well past the 60 day window of the War Powers Authorization law, and 11 years past the Authorization to Use Force in Iraq.

    Time for the war whoopers to explain what authorization Obarry has (constitutional or WPA, or AUF) to be extending major military actions into Syria, which is covered by neither. Time for them to put on their military pants and gear, and parachute in to fight these wars they so feverishly want us to fight in the absence of law.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

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