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Thread: De-militarize the Police: A List of Demands

  1. #1

    De-militarize the Police: A List of Demands

    I don't know who else has read the article Kareem Abdul Jabbar wrote on Ferguson (see here: http://time.com/3132635/ferguson-com...class-warfare/ ) but he insists, and I agree, that we not only need to express our anger over police shootings and misconduct but we also have to articulate what we want changed. The only way to really change the discussion is to be specific about what we want and present it to the population in a way they can absorb and understand.

    In that vain, I have taken it upon myself to create a .jpg of the (first round) of laws I want changed in regards to police militarization and police brutality. I wanted to be specific while at the same time conveying the message in as few words as possible.



    My only request is that if you agree with my statement that you spread this to the farthest reaches of social media, to every friend, relative and acquaintance you have. Send it to every celebrity you like, to every activist from every corner of the political spectrum. Send it to through facebook, twitter, snapchat, pintrest, to the daily paul, anti-war.com, and drudge, anything that can get the word and and spread the message. Thanks guys and if you have anything promoting a free society you would like spread across the blogosphere, let me know and I'll do my part.

    For Liberty,

    Gumba
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Sam Adams



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  3. #2
    Ban flash bangs
    Abolish no-knock raids
    Abolish swat teams
    Recall all military equipment gifted to police forces
    Any officer that shoots a dog or other pet gets an automatic 6 months in jail if they are not torn up by that same animal.
    Mandatory prison sentence for any officer that shoots someone holding a game controller, TV switcher, electric drill, squirt gun, etc.
    Any officer that shoots a civilian is to be charged with murder or attempted murder and treated like a civilian who has done the same till things get worked out. That means jail, not paid administrative leave (vacation)
    Automatic jail time for busting kids lemonade stands, bake sales, etc.

    anyone else...

    -t

  4. #3
    Just abolish the police. I realize that even a couple weeks ago I said that politicians shouldn't get bogged down into advocating for that but more and more I think its more an absolute essential than an ancap ideal. Part of it has been talking to conservatives (mostly theonomists) who are against the existence of police. It isn't just ancaps.

  5. #4
    Completely agree with you but I think we have a real shot at reform if we stick to provisions that the majority of Americans would support. Americans still think SWAT Teams are kickass. I don't know if it could go viral with those provisions. Let's debate it all but baby steps boys.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Completely agree with you but I think we have a real shot at reform if we stick to provisions that the majority of Americans would support. Americans still think SWAT Teams are kickass. I don't know if it could go viral with those provisions. Let's debate it all but baby steps boys.
    I'm really getting sick of playing games personally. Mind you, I'm all for anything that would make an improvement, but I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to tell anyone that I have a problem with police and not really care what they think about it.

  7. #6
    OK, reform SWAT - absolutely no warrant service (70% OF WHAT THEY DO) with the possible exception of a murder suspect, armed robber, people that are known to have and have used weapons in a crime, places they expect a firefight. use them only for barcade/hostage situations. Operative word is RARELY!
    Absolutely no use at public demonstrations. Snipers and people with heavy weapons have no business where people are protesting.
    Seriously BAN flashbangs. 4 children have been hurt by those in recent years. 1 dead, 3 seriously messed up. People get behind protecting children.
    There are 2 main types, one burns really hot and frequently burns peoples houses down.
    If cops raid the wrong house - seriously - jail time!
    Transparency - every use of a SWAT team goes in the local paper with details of what happened. Then again in a monthly report. and again in a yearly report.
    No more masks. Terrorists and criminals wear those things. Anyone doing a home invasion wearing a mask should be an instant walk for whoever shoots them in self defense.

    -t
    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 08-24-2014 at 08:37 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I'm really getting sick of playing games personally. Mind you, I'm all for anything that would make an improvement, but I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to tell anyone that I have a problem with police and not really care what they think about it.
    Just for a second imagine that my list of demands when viral. It was up on drudge, it was plastered all over Facebook, Amash introduced a Federal Bill, & State legislators followed suit do you think the LEOs would think we were playing games?

  9. #8
    You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
    When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

    This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

    No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
    When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

    This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

    No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.
    Good point. This is an argument I've used on my conservative (Rand Paul type) father. I told him he should support the most radical libertarians he can for office because then the compromises might be somewhere close to what he wants.

    This is part of my concern with Rand Paul (though I do support him.) If he gets into the Presidency, I do wonder what his compromises are going to look like once he gets into office.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
    When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

    This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

    No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.
    I agree and I will support you with your efforts if and when you reveal them. If you cannot support my ideas out of principle I understand but I'm only here to help spread the message of liberty. Conflict with fellow liberty lovers is not my goal.
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Sam Adams

  13. #11
    3 strikes law. The vast majority of officers never discharge their firearm off the range through their career. If a officer discharges their weapon in 3 separate incidents, it's a instant fire and ban from working for any law enforcement agency in the future.

    Maybe water this down to 3 times in a 5-10 year period to accommodate high crime areas. Point being, there are a few trigger happy cops and getting rid of those would go a long way to fixing this situation.

    cops kill 500 civilians a year in this country. As anyone who's a regular on this forum know, these are all too often raiding the wrong house or people calling for help with a mentally disabled child.

    I have similar thoughts as to doctors who screw up as an alternative to malpractice insurance.

    -t
    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 08-24-2014 at 09:43 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    3 strikes law. The vast majority of officers never discharge their firearm off the range through their career. If a officer discharges their weapon in 3 separate incidents, it's a instant fire and ban from working for any law enforcement agency in the future.

    Maybe water this down to 3 times in a 5-10 year period to accommodate high crime areas. Point being, there are a few trigger happy cops and getting rid of those would go a long way to fixing this situation.

    I have similar thoughts as to doctors who screw up as an alternative to malpractice insurance.

    -t
    3 times? 3?

    It should be one and done, at best. Better yet, fire them all now and call it a day.

    Every day I grow more and more anti-police, to the point where its driving me nuts...

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Just abolish the police.
    Though I agree with that wholeheartedly.. I do not believe that will pass.

    Though I will support putting them on a very short leash. Abolish immunity for their actions and hold them accountable.

    Ending the War on Drugs would go a long way to eliminating the problems.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Though I agree with that wholeheartedly.. I do not believe that will pass.

    Though I will support putting them on a very short leash. Abolish immunity for their actions and hold them accountable.

    Ending the War on Drugs would go a long way to eliminating the problems.
    Indeed.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    3 times? 3?

    It should be one and done, at best. Better yet, fire them all now and call it a day.

    Every day I grow more and more anti-police, to the point where its driving me nuts...
    If it's a bad shoot, I'd be OK with 1 strike and you;re out. But really, 3. It's a dangerous job and some hoods are worse than others. Think about it this way: You get a CCW and carry. Someone tries to rob/kill you and you defend yourself. You used it for it's intended purpose, to defend yourself. Should you be stripped of your right to own firearms.

    I mimic your anti-police feelings but a lot of that is from being here and reading all the horror stories. From seeing Ferguson cops going bat $#@! and waving AR['s in protesters faces to raiding the wrong house and killing the occupents. High on a power trip. I used to donate to the police benevolent fund. Till I found out that they were hired telemarketers instead of cops and their family members volunteering to do this work. (I have slight negative feelings for RP doing the same - use supporters!) also, I found out that my donations were being used for gun control lobbying I also have had one bad experience where I got screwed to the tune of $125,000 and a trashed house and a lot of misery. They realised they made a mistake when they kept getting called to my place for domestic violence calls and I was barred from living in my own house. Other than that, I actually think rather highly of our local cops. They display good restraint. Only ran into one what was on a power trip and wanted to go Rambo. Trying to kick in my door as I told her I didn't want to talk to them and was closing and locking my door. Did $#@! up the door though. Yeah, and a false arrest. I decided not to sue them.

    Also, I'm a former EMT. Cops and medics - they cover each others backs...

    -t
    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 08-24-2014 at 10:28 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    If it's a bad shoot, I'd be OK with 1 strike and you;re out. But really, 3. It's a dangerous job and some hoods are worse than others. Think about it this way: You get a CCW and carry. Someone tries to rob/kill you and you defend yourself. You used it for it's intended purpose, to defend yourself. Should you be stripped of your right to own firearms.
    I don't see the two situations as similar.

    First of all, I'm not talking about denying anyone their rights to do anything. Disarming someone is violating their rights. Firing them is not. Of course, government police departments are in and of themselves violations of rights Which leads to my second point. Cops are aggressors, period. US law requires them to be. They aren't innocent. Ever. Period.

    Mind you, I can imagine situations where a cop stands by and does nothing when someone is about to get killed solely because they might get fired, but the thing is, they do this anyway. Cops aren't there to protect us pretty much ever. So, I don't really see this as a valid concern. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario in which an American cop is ACTUALLY justified in doing anything.
    I mimic your anti-police feelings but a lot of that is from being here and reading all the horror stories. From seeing Ferguson cops going bat $#@! and waving AR['s in protesters faces to raiding the wrong house and killing the occupents. High on a power trip. I used to donate to the police benevolent fund. Till I found out that they were hired telemarketers instead of cops and their family members volunteering to do this work. (I have slight negative feelings for RP doing the same - use supporters!) also, I found out that my donations were being used for gun control lobbying I also have had one bad experience where I got screwed to the tune of $125,000 and a trashed house and a lot of misery. They realised they made a mistake when they kept getting called to my place for domestic violence calls and I was barred from living in my own house. Other than that, I actually think rather highly of our local cops. They display good restraint. Only ran into one what was on a power trip and wanted to go Rambo. Trying to kick in my door as I told her I didn't want to talk to them and was closing and locking my door. Did $#@! up the door though. Yeah, and a false arrest. I decided not to sue them.

    Also, I'm a former EMT. Cops and medics - they cover each others backs...
    Even local cops have to enforce "the law" as it is written, no matter what it is. You sound like I probably sounded a year ago. But every day I get more and more anti-cop as the logic processes itself in my mind. Its time to completely dispel the "cops are good guys" myths. Cops are bad. Period. Simply because of what they are REQUIRED to do as part of their jobs.



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  20. #17
    NEVER MUZZLE NON VIOLENT SUSPECT

    I remember being covered in little red lasers and ordered "Put the bong down and come out with your hands up!" by a pack of goons with fingers on the trigger. Absolutely unacceptable use of force.
    Last edited by presence; 08-25-2014 at 04:25 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    I don't know who else has read the article Kareem Abdul Jabbar wrote on Ferguson (see here: http://time.com/3132635/ferguson-com...class-warfare/ ) but he insists, and I agree, that we not only need to express our anger over police shootings and misconduct but we also have to articulate what we want changed. The only way to really change the discussion is to be specific about what we want and present it to the population in a way they can absorb and understand.

    In that vain, I have taken it upon myself to create a .jpg of the (first round) of laws I want changed in regards to police militarization and police brutality. I wanted to be specific while at the same time conveying the message in as few words as possible.



    My only request is that if you agree with my statement that you spread this to the farthest reaches of social media, to every friend, relative and acquaintance you have. Send it to every celebrity you like, to every activist from every corner of the political spectrum. Send it to through facebook, twitter, snapchat, pintrest, to the daily paul, anti-war.com, and drudge, anything that can get the word and and spread the message. Thanks guys and if you have anything promoting a free society you would like spread across the blogosphere, let me know and I'll do my part.

    For Liberty,

    Gumba

    OK, a few things.

    ETA: Define "Standard Disciplinary Response (SDR): Immediate dismissal as a police officer. Felony charges filed and upon conviction, loss of all benefits and pension, ineligibility to hold any public position whether elected, appointed, or hired for life anywhere in the United States, its territories, or protectorates, entry into a "violator of the public trust" database for 10 years immediately or after lapse of any sentence that may be imposed upon conviction. Conviction will carry treble hazards for police as the equivalent charges do for non-police. That is, if a "civilian" would earn a 5-year sentence for a given conviction, a cop so convicted would earn 15 years at hard labor at the military barracks at Ft. Leavenworth KS.

    Remove "intentionally" from the fourth item.

    Ban all military weapons including automatics, armored vehicles, body armor, grenades of ANY type, including CS, smoke, and others.

    Ban militarized tactics and training of all forms for any reason whatsoever.

    ETA: Any use of such tactics in the course of on-duty operations results in SDR.

    Any discharge of a cop's weapon FOR ANY REASON not on a police range results in automatic 90-day furlough without pay while the occurrence is investigated by third party agents. Unjustified discharge results in SDR and possible felony charges.

    Cops surrender their duty weapons when going off duty, such weapons to be stored at the department armory. Any cop discovered with a duty weapon of ANY SORT while off-duty is automatically dismissed, loses benefits and pension, and is charged with felony possession of a weapon and stolen property. No exceptions. Cops are INDIVIDUALLY responsible for the disposition of all weapons entrusted them while on duty and for returning them to safe storage before going off-duty.

    ETA: Any cop found complicit in covering the discovery of such weapons violations face the same penalties as those who committed them.

    ETA: Any cop or group thereof acting to in any way cover up the violations of other cops face SDR, and at minimum share the same fate as those who committed the actual violations.

    Any finding of unjustified violations of the rights of person or property automatically result in SDR.

    Item 6 should insert "personally and individually" after "officers".

    Positive drug tests result in SDR

    All warrants are to be served in the proper manner. Any cop serving a no-knock, complicit in its service, or knowingly allowing such service without interfering will face SDR.


    SDR: an acronym we hope all cops will grow to fear and hate more than their mommies. Let them quake in their boots at the very thought of committing any act that might result in SDR. The time for this is upon us. Spread the word.
    Last edited by osan; 08-27-2014 at 04:41 AM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Just abolish the police.
    Not going to happen any time before Jesus' return, so this gets us nowhere.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Completely agree with you but I think we have a real shot at reform if we stick to provisions that the majority of Americans would support. Americans still think SWAT Teams are kickass. I don't know if it could go viral with those provisions. Let's debate it all but baby steps boys.
    I disagree. Strike while the iron is hot, and it is very hot at the moment. Police should ideally be abolished, but we know that will not happen. We must therefore endeavor to take the biggest swag at them possible. Go huge. Asking for pittances will get you less than that. If you really want $500 for your car, ask $1000 and work down from there because if you ask $500 you are almost guaranteed to get less.

    This is NOT the time to be timidly cautious because those bastards have us against a wall and it is damned past time to fight them like mad dogs.
    Last edited by osan; 08-25-2014 at 10:39 AM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    OK, reform SWAT - absolutely no warrant service (70% OF WHAT THEY DO) with the possible exception of a murder suspect, armed robber, people that are known to have and have used weapons in a crime, places they expect a firefight. use them only for barcade/hostage situations. Operative word is RARELY!
    Strongly disagree. It is precisely these brands of qualified exceptions that have lead us down the slippery slope. Firstly, we need no SWAT teams for any reason at all. They should be dissolved in toto. Barring that, they must be employed for nothing but response to an established situation. They NEVER serve warrants because that is not what they are supposed to do and their missions should not be expanded. Ever.

    Absolutely no use at public demonstrations. Snipers and people with heavy weapons have no business where people are protesting.
    Agreed.

    Transparency - every use of a SWAT team goes in the local paper with details of what happened. Then again in a monthly report. and again in a yearly report.
    No more masks. Terrorists and criminals wear those things. Anyone doing a home invasion wearing a mask should be an instant walk for whoever shoots them in self defense.

    -t
    All police documents must be publicly accessible ON DEMAND, no exceptions.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
    When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

    This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

    No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.
    Exactly right and dead-center on point.

    Can someone rep this for me... can't give to Fishy at this time.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    3 strikes law. The vast majority of officers never discharge their firearm off the range through their career. If a officer discharges their weapon in 3 separate incidents, it's a instant fire and ban from working for any law enforcement agency in the future.
    Terrible idea, so sorry. See my alternative, a few posts above.

    Maybe water this down to 3 times in a 5-10 year period to accommodate high crime areas. Point being, there are a few trigger happy cops and getting rid of those would go a long way to fixing this situation.
    Those "few" trigger-happy cops murdered nearly 500 people last year. I'd say there are a ton of those twitchy bastards roaming freely about. Time for that to come to a grinding and violent halt. Enough already.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    It's a dangerous job and some hoods are worse than others.
    Sorry T4, but that is BULL$#@!. Being a cop is, statistically speaking, just about the safest job one could have.

    Think about it this way: You get a CCW and carry. Someone tries to rob/kill you and you defend yourself. You used it for it's intended purpose, to defend yourself. Should you be stripped of your right to own firearms.
    If you are a cop and on duty, I am am tempted to think perhaps yes. British cops carry no guns... though that appears to be changing (for the worse). Police are the ONLY people around whom the presence of a firearm makes me uncomfortable.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  29. #25
    Police are the only group of Americans who have proven time and again that they can't be trusted with ordnance...

    It really doesn't matter why and it doesn't matter that there's only a few bad apples, the citizenry is in jeopardy due to armed LEO's.

    Expecting the citizenry to pay for their oppression is nuts.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Exactly right and dead-center on point.

    Can someone rep this for me... can't give to Fishy at this time.
    covered ya

    -t

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Sorry T4, but that is BULL$#@!. Being a cop is, statistically speaking, just about the safest job one could have.
    Although this is true as a grand total, I suspect that there are some areas of the country where it is substantially worse than the average. Of course, that doesn't actually matter.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Exactly right and dead-center on point.

    Can someone rep this for me... can't give to Fishy at this time.
    I agree with you but this is not a negotiation. I'm not trying to bargain with TPTB or the police or the mayor or anyone. I'm trying to convince and educate fellow Americans, most of whom are dumbed-down sheep, of the ways the law places police above the law. Qualified immunity and civil forfeiture are not in the vocabulary of the average American. I want to change that. I want them to understand the US Code that enables the police to circumvent the law. I am not about to propose to a bunch of simpletons that the police should be abolished. Trying to convince these people that we don't need police is not going to work. Trust me, I have tried.

    We don't need a majority to prevail but it would be nice if the minority that was trying to regain their liberty would try to work together on an activist forum. Just my 2 cents.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    I agree with you but this is not a negotiation. I'm not trying to bargain with TPTB or the police or the mayor or anyone. I'm trying to convince and educate fellow Americans, most of whom are dumbed-down sheep, of the ways the law places police above the law. Qualified immunity and civil forfeiture are not in the vocabulary of the average American. I want to change that. I want them to understand the US Code that enables the police to circumvent the law. I am not about to propose to a bunch of simpletons that the police should be abolished. Trying to convince these people that we don't need police is not going to work. Trust me, I have tried.

    We don't need a majority to prevail but it would be nice if the minority that was trying to regain their liberty would try to work together on an activist forum. Just my 2 cents.
    There are a number of cable shows on our side as well as reporters. Get it in the media cycle and it should go viral.

    Also a campaign of ppl calling C-SPAN and all the conservative talk shows.

    -t

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Just for a second imagine that my list of demands when viral. It was up on drudge, it was plastered all over Facebook, Amash introduced a Federal Bill, & State legislators followed suit do you think the LEOs would think we were playing games?
    dood. you need to change your bong water.

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