Others call it blowback and understand it's the result of the government itself establishing a standard of complete contempt for both the law and moral codes that forbid these behaviors.Originally Posted by AuH20
It is a qualitatively different situation when crimes are committed by agents of government, and government routinely defies its own laws to protect them.
When the cops themselves commit crimes, there's no one to stop them AND any citizen acting in lawful self defense against police crimes gets murdered.
The law being lawless is a public issue orders of magnitude above the lawlessness of citizens.
Actually that wasn't the intent. But since you bring it up let me give it a whorl from what might be your perspective.
Look at this guy Michael Bell. Look at his rap sheet. He's been in trouble with the law since he was 18. A hit and run? He was found with drug paraphenalia. No telling what harder drugs he may have gone on to. I wonder if he was on meth when he decided to take on three cops. Even tasing didn't work. Which tells me he had to be on something.
He must have been. I mean no one takes on three cops unless they are on something. He got a DUI and then got a driving while revoked which shows an obvious contempt for the rule of law. He previously resisted the officer that he forced to shoot him. I can't believe that a cop would just shoot someone for no reason. And he was an athlete. He probably was just used to getting his own way.
Of course his family and another witness claims are different from the officers involved. They were family and of course they were biased. If he didn't want to get shot he should have complied and not tried to take away an officers firearm.
Last edited by phill4paul; 08-17-2014 at 04:15 PM.
I was wondering where this legislation came from.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...involving-cops
"When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat
Peace.
And now you know why Political Activists Activate.In April of this year we passed a law that made Wisconsin the first state in the nation to mandate at legislative level that police-related deaths be reviewed by an outside agency.
Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.
A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.
They're still brainless pinheads. Only a brainless pinhead would attack a store, a privately owned store, because of the actions of cops.
I'm as ticked off as you are but mindless sheep collectivizing and attacking the wrong targets is part of the reason we got into this mess. We could debate the moral merits of revenge, but regardless, it would be one thing if they violently targeted the cop who did the act of brutality in question. It might even be another thing if they targeted "police." I'm not justifying that, but at least police as a group are generally part of the problem. But to attack a private store owner who has nothing more to do with the police than anyone else? Come on... That just makes you a moron, no matter what you went through
I think AuH20 was questioning the facts of what happened, not the morality of it. I don't think he was saying it was actually moral to shoot someone just because they are a thief.
The thing is, criminals kill people. By definition. That's what they do. In theory, you kill them in the act if you can, and if not, well, then the cops are supposed to be the ones that deal with it. Mind you, I'm not saying that they actually do, but that's the theory at any rate.
Cops, the ones who are supposed to be dealing with criminals actually engaging in crimes is a travesty. Its worse for several reasons. One, most of us were raised to respect law enforcement officers (again, I agree that they don't deserve respect, but I'm in the minority on that point, and I was raised to respect police to... I do not because this place among other things opened my eyes. Most people don't do as much research as I have.) Second, you can't legally get away with defending yourself against a cop. Maybe in theory you can, but in practice, you are screwed. And third of all, cops can very likely get away with engaging in illegal aggression (legal aggression is certainly obvious) against you. A cop who steals and uses his badge to get away with it is worse than a civilian child molester. The bottom line: the world is an ugly place at times, there are always going to be heinous people who commit heinous actions, but its far worse when society is implicitly or explicitly saying its OK. Nobody thinks theft is "moral". Even thieves know that theft is immoral. Unless they have badges, then they think its OK...
I didn't read this post before I made mine. Really, I didn't. My thoughts exactly.
I don't think that's happening at all. That's the Big Lie of all this.
The stores get attacked because the open mass conflict between the people and the government created a window of lawlessness which criminals could take advantage of. Note everyone arrested for looting wasn't from Ferguson.
The protests were a reaction to the actions of cops. The looting was a reaction to the withdrawal of police protection as the cops turtled up and left the community to fend for itself while simultaneously announcing to anyone listening that the cops would definitely be way too busy to do normal policing, such as stopping a store from being looted.
Equating the protestors and the looters is an error of analysis. The two sets may not have any members at all in common.
In any case, dealing with peaceful protestors with the same strategy and tactics that is appropriate to dealing with looters is something so guaranteed to lead to further escalation that those doing so then take the lion's share of the responsibility for the outcome.
To spend millions of dollars and over ten years to get a toothless law passed, which will be disregarded, while meanwhile, the cop that killed his son, goes right on being a cop, laughing at the family home every time he passes through the neighborhood.
Yeah,you're right.He should have looted.
Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.
A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.
Say what you want, I don't think that Wilson is going to keep his job after all this.
Well, one of the officers committed suicide. So there is that.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/106478678.htmlA Kenosha police officer involved in a controversial and highly publicized fatal shooting in 2004 committed suicide early Sunday, according to Chief John Morrissey.
Officer Erich R. Strausbaugh, 34, of Franklin was having marital problems and had been stressed in the aftermath of the shooting of 21-year-old Michael E. Bell, according to statements by his wife in a Milwaukee County medical examiner's report.
I would imagine seeing advertisements and billboards all over the place reminding him of the incident had some affect on him.
Oh,I couldn't agree more.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Beyond guilt or innocence,the main reason that cop is going to spend some quality time in prison.
My post on the Ferguson Cost thread.
Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.
A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.
professional courtesy, got it.
"IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!"let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482"For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik LehnsherrThere's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho
For how long before reinstatement with back pay?
Wow, this kid took a beating before he finally got executed. I read the line by line for the first 100+ points listed. Read the http://michaelbell.info/SummaryBriefPage2.html
unlawful stop/choking and tasing/gratuitous beating sections.
And for what again? For driving by a cop that didn't like him?
$#@! cops are merely a symptom.
“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).
That's not what happened according to the cops. You can clearly hear the cops in this re-enactment say "Stop resisting!" "He's got my gun!". In fact, all four cops agree this is what happened. They should know too, because they were all there (they were all holding him down at the time).can be shot in the head under a street light with his hands cuffed behind his back
Their re-enactment:
I know, I know, it kind of looks like an execution. But don't forget, he went for their gun(s). (again, all four of the cops agree this is what happened)
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
One of the cops that held him down apparently killed himself a few years ago. Possibly due to PTSD from this unfortunate and unpreventable tragedy.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...of-killer.htmlEric Strausbaugh of Franklin, Wisconsin, a 34-year-old husband and father, killed himself last October 31. Friends recall that he was experiencing marital difficulties and a great deal of job-related stress. A large part of his emotional burden was the result of his actions on November 9, 2004
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Excerpt:
I have known the name of the policeman who killed my son, Michael, for ten years. And he is still working on the force in Kenosha.
Yes, there is good reason to think that many of these unjustifiable homicides by police across the country are racially motivated. But there is a lot more than that going on here. Our country is simply not paying enough attention to the terrible lack of accountability of police departments and the way it affects all of us—regardless of race or ethnicity. Because if a blond-haired, blue-eyed boy — that was my son, Michael — can be shot in the head under a street light with his hands cuffed behind his back, in front of five eyewitnesses (including his mother and sister), and his father was a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who flew in three wars for his country — that’s me — and I still couldn’t get anything done about it, then Joe the plumber and Javier the roofer aren’t going to be able to do anything about it either.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3Ar2bo7ix
After police in Kenosha, Wis., shot my 21-year-old son to death outside his house ten years ago — and then immediately cleared themselves of all wrongdoing — an African-American man approached me and said: “If they can shoot a white boy like a dog, imagine what we’ve been going through.”I could imagine it all too easily, just as the rest of the country has been seeing it all too clearly in the terrible images coming from Ferguson, Mo., in the aftermath of the killing of Michael Brown. On Friday, after a week of angry protests, the police in Ferguson finally identified the officer implicated in Brown's shooting, although the circumstances still remain unclear.
I have known the name of the policeman who killed my son, Michael, for ten years. And he is still working on the force in Kenosha.
Yes, there is good reason to think that many of these unjustifiable homicides by police across the country are racially motivated. But there is a lot more than that going on here. Our country is simply not paying enough attention to the terrible lack of accountability of police departments and the way it affects all of us—regardless of race or ethnicity. Because if a blond-haired, blue-eyed boy — that was my son, Michael — can be shot in the head under a street light with his hands cuffed behind his back, in front of five eyewitnesses (including his mother and sister), and his father was a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who flew in three wars for his country — that’s me — and I still couldn’t get anything done about it, then Joe the plumber and Javier the roofer aren’t going to be able to do anything about it either.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3AwEl5i1z
I just don't get it.
We did our research: In 129 years since police and fire commissions were created in the state of Wisconsin, we could not find a single ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified.What is it that goes through a man's head - especially a man who has lost his son by way of brutal murder by a police officer - that disallows him from recognizing that Andy Griffith is a fictional $#@!ing character who never existed?I also think the days of Andy Griffith and the Mayberry peacekeeper are over.
He paraphrased those words in the course of writing that article, and then still had to put in the obligatory "Now I'm not saying I don't like the taste of cop cock" that appears in all of these articles.
I honestly don't get it.
There are no crimes against people.
There are only crimes against the state.
And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.
Either they believe cops are an absolute necessity or they are afraid of alienating readers. My guess is the first.
"When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat
Peace.
He's a veteran so he thought the police lived by some code of honor. So he quietly waited for the police force to do their due diligence...and slowly began to realize..WTF!? These guys are thugs with a badge and everyone is covering this up.
It took him a long time to come to grips that those cops weren't "protecting and serving".
Stockholm called...they want their Syndrome back.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, these people (by that I mean middle class white folks, you know, "not savages") have been so well trained and compliant, they will line up neatly and quietly at the edge of the mass grave for their bullet
They'll apologize for stepping on the guard's toes as they are getting shoved into the gas chamber.
In Wisconsin, A Decade-Old Police Shooting Leads To New Law
Race is at the forefront of the current debate over the police use of deadly force. But one shooting in Wisconsin highlights another factor at play when police shoot civilians — the lack of outside investigation. And the decade-old death has led to real reform in the state.The Bell family ended up filing a civil suit for wrongful death. Six years later, they received a $1.75 million settlement. But there was no admission of wrongdoing, and the police maintained that Michael Bell Jr. caused his own death.
The family used the settlement money to fund a grassroots campaign. They took out ads in the New York Times, in USA Today and on radio and created TV commercials.
The campaigning went on for years, but Barton says the message really gained momentum after another police incident in 2011, where a 22-year-old man died in the backseat of a police car. The medical examiner ruled the death a homicide.
Bell bought every available billboard in Milwaukee with slogans like: "When Police Kill, Should They Judge Themselves?"
"After we created enough ruckus, the unions ended up sitting down with us and talking with us," Bell says. They told him that if he wanted to take the billboards down, they would work with him in crafting some the legislation he sought.
"I had formulated in my mind what really needed to occur here to make this process better," he says.
The law they put forth would make Wisconsin the first state in the nation to mandate, on the legislative level, that if an officer was involved with a loss of life, that outside investigators must come in and collect the data and investigate that shooting.
This past April, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker passed the bill into law.
http://www.npr.org/2014/12/13/370592...ads-to-new-law
Probably the first.
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OK, his secondary objective has been accomplished. He got drastically needed landmark legislation passed. Now he can plan and "execute" the primary objective...
BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"
Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist
Use an internet archive site like THIS ONE
to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.
The only one in the nation and it's still cops investigating cops.
"When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat
Peace.
Dad is still looking for justice.
Air Force Col. Buys 24 Billboards To Expose Cops Who Executed His Son
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/vet...ns-billboards/
After his son was executed by police, a veteran is now using the settlement he received from the city to call for a new investigation into his son's death.
Thirteen years have passed since one man’s son was fatally shot by police officers, and he cannot rest until his family sees the men who shot and killed his son brought to justice. Unsatisfied with the turn-around investigation which, predictably, exonerated all of the officers involved, Michael Bell Sr. has now leased 24 billboards in and around Kenosha, Wisconsin, calling for an investigation into his son’s death to be reopened.
Lt. Col. Michael Bell (USAF, Ret.) lost his son, also named Michael Bell, 13 years ago. After a night of drinking, Bell was reportedly the soberest of his friends and drove his friend’s SUV home early on the morning of Nov. 9, 2004.
Kenosha Police encountered Bell in front of his own home. When approached by officers, he got out of the car. He was told to get back in and when he did not fully comply with officers’ commands, an altercation began, escalating to the point at which one officer shot the young man in the head, killing him instantly.
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