Options in Iraq - POLL

[Nathan Hale]

While I'm mostly non-interventionist, I have second thoughts when it comes to arming the Kurds. They're consistent allies and great examples of stable, democratic, secular government in the middle east. I don't think we should get involved in Iraq to any real degree, but since we're shipping a bunch of stuff home from Afghanistan anyway, why not donate some of it to the Kurds? A little night vision, troop transport, mortar, rifle and ammo dump and they get everything they're asking for to fight the IS, and I believe them capable of fighting the IS once that is in place. Thoughts?

[dannno]

Violence sucks, the weapons will probably just end up getting taken by the enemy.

[dannno]

However, if you would like to donate your own money or weapons to the Kurds, I won't stop you.

[pcosmar]

Does it matter? not a Poll Option

and where does anyone get the Idea that they are our allies?
They have been useful idiots at times,, but they have done nothing for my freedom.

[dannno]

Does it matter? not a Poll Option

and where does anyone get the Idea that they are our allies?
They have been useful idiots at times,, but they have done nothing for my freedom.

Just vote for "Let whatever happens happen" so we don't look like a bunch of wartards.

[TaftFan]

Give them the equipment and arms we are currently scrapping in Afghanistan. No reason for it to go to waste.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well, what the Kurds need is AK and Enfield chow. Really, they need heavier stuff that will take out US weapons/transport.
IS has got US weapons that eat AR chow.

Both sides basically dress the same... yeah, headscarves, but....

You kind of want your opposition to use weapons that sound different, so you know they are the opposition...

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well, what the Kurds need is AK and Enfield chow. Really, they need heavier stuff that will take out US weapons/transport.
IS has got US weapons that eat AR chow.

Both sides basically dress the same... yeah, headscarves, but....

You kind of want your opposition to use weapons that sound different, so you know they are the opposition...

-t

[Brian4Liberty]

Give them the equipment and arms we are currently scrapping in Afghanistan. No reason for it to go to waste.

Correction: sell them excess equipment.

[pcosmar]

Thoughts?

Why should "we" do anything else? Things there are working exactly as intended.

If the US wanted to arm the Kurds, they would have done so (could have done so) years ago..

"We" armed the ISIS. "We" Trained them.

Arm the Kurds and they may win. It was clear by the way "we" screwed them in the past that "we" don't want that.

[pcosmar]

Give them the equipment and arms we are currently scrapping in Afghanistan. No reason for it to go to waste.

It won't go to waste. It will be re-purposed by the people that live there, just like the Russian equipment was.

[Brian4Liberty]

Violence sucks, the weapons will probably just end up getting taken by the enemy.

Yes, violence sucks. But we don't want to go the "gun control" route either. People should be able to defend themselves, including the Kurds.

On the other hand, giving away stockpiles of weapons, to people who will just drop them and run, all on the US taxpayer, is folly.

[dannno]

No reason for it to go to waste.

How about innocent dead people?

[navy-vet]

Correction: sell them excess equipment.

Yes, sell them the surplus weaponry by all means.

[navy-vet]

Reminds me of the Rothchild's financing both sides during the great war, though.....

[pcosmar]

Yes, sell them the surplus weaponry by all means.

And then tell them to go get it,, it is in Afghanistan.. They can just go pick it up.

[Brian4Liberty]

Arm the Kurds

Where is the option to "Quit interfering in the Kurds ability to sell oil and allow them to buy arms with their own money"?

[TaftFan]

How about innocent dead people?

Like ISIS?

[dannno]

Like ISIS?

No I mean stop adding fuel to the fire.

[TaftFan]

No I mean stop adding fuel to the fire.

The fire won't be put out until ISIS is annihilated. That is the fact of the matter. These aren't people who surrender or give up.

[pcosmar]

The fire won't be put out until ISIS is annihilated. That is the fact of the matter. These aren't people who surrender or give up.

ISIS did not exist till the US created them. Trained and armed them.
Why do you want to attack our fighters.

[Natural Citizen]

I'm just going to go with what the statesman had in mind. So...none of the above.

Ron Paul on Iraq: ‘The sooner we get out of there the better’

[TaftFan]

ISIS did not exist till the US created them. Trained and armed them.
Why do you want to attack our fighters.

Some of our weapons likely fell into their hands in Syria, although there were multiple factions opposing the regime. And they got a buttload of our equipment when the Iraqi military cut and run.

But I am pretty sure they existed before any of that happened.

[bolil]

Great idea! Arm the Kurds! Just like you armed the Iraqis. That way ISIS will be able to seize more weaponry and become an even tougher opponent for whoever is left to fight them. Maybe Israel can be our ally and take care of ISIS, god knows the US has paid them enough.

[pcosmar]

Some of our weapons likely fell into their hands in Syria, although there were multiple factions opposing the regime. And they got a buttload of our equipment when the Iraqi military cut and run.

But I am pretty sure they existed before any of that happened.

They came into existence with the Syrian conflict. They were armed by John $#@!ing McCain.
They were trained by US forces when we trained Iraqis,, and they got more weapons when they took over bases we left them with.
We made them.

They weren't called ISIS till very recently,,

[luctor-et-emergo]

Great idea! Arm the Kurds! Just like you armed the Iraqis. That way ISIS will be able to seize more weaponry and become an even tougher opponent for whoever is left to fight them. Maybe Israel can be our ally and take care of ISIS, god knows the US has paid them enough.

The difference between 'Iraqis' and Kurds is that Iraqi's don't exist. They are a mixture of Sunni, Shiite, Kurds and other factions(even inside these factions it's complicated). They don't get along, Iraq is and always has been a country without a reason to exist. The Kurdish people have tried to gain independence for a long time, stopped both by Iraq and Turkey. At this point it seems that even Turkey is growing closer to the Kurds. While I agree that simply arming people may cause additional problems later I would argue that the Kurds may be the one group that actually deserves to be helped. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq the Kurdish region has been relatively peaceful. I have met some Kurds while fishing, really nice people that fled from violence and would really like to return to their homeland. So I may be slightly biased.

PS: I voted to arm them, I'm quite sure they would be happy to pay it back with their oil fields later. They have wanted freedom for their people for a long time and their economy requires stability which in my opinion is a good argument to help them. Not the most principled non-interventionist position but it's a mess to begin with.

[navy-vet]

The difference between 'Iraqis' and Kurds is that Iraqi's don't exist. They are a mixture of Sunni, Shiite, Kurds and other factions(even inside these factions it's complicated). They don't get along, Iraq is and always has been a country without a reason to exist. The Kurdish people have tried to gain independence for a long time, stopped both by Iraq and Turkey. At this point it seems that even Turkey is growing closer to the Kurds. While I agree that simply arming people may cause additional problems later I would argue that the Kurds may be the one group that actually deserves to be helped. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq the Kurdish region has been relatively peaceful. I have met some Kurds while fishing, really nice people that fled from violence and would really like to return to their homeland. So I may be slightly biased.

PS: I voted to arm them, I'm quite sure they would be happy to pay it back with their oil fields later. They have wanted freedom for their people for a long time and their economy requires stability which in my opinion is a good argument to help them. Not the most principled non-interventionist position but it's a mess to begin with.

You sound as though you know more about the truth here than most of us to me.

[bolil]

The difference between 'Iraqis' and Kurds is that Iraqi's don't exist. They are a mixture of Sunni, Shiite, Kurds and other factions(even inside these factions it's complicated). They don't get along, Iraq is and always has been a country without a reason to exist. The Kurdish people have tried to gain independence for a long time, stopped both by Iraq and Turkey. At this point it seems that even Turkey is growing closer to the Kurds. While I agree that simply arming people may cause additional problems later I would argue that the Kurds may be the one group that actually deserves to be helped. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq the Kurdish region has been relatively peaceful. I have met some Kurds while fishing, really nice people that fled from violence and would really like to return to their homeland. So I may be slightly biased.

PS: I voted to arm them, I'm quite sure they would be happy to pay it back with their oil fields later. They have wanted freedom for their people for a long time and their economy requires stability which in my opinion is a good argument to help them. Not the most principled non-interventionist position but it's a mess to begin with.

Another group of imaginary people? I thought Palestinians were alone in that respect. Let's say we arm the Kurds, and they lick ISIS. Now, the Kurds are the powerhouse and what, are they going to be content with their land or will they seek to expand their rule (as every political entity since we started using thumbs has done). If anyone wants to arm them, that is fine, but they should only use their dough to do so.

What if the Kurds are armed and lose anyways? Now ISIS has much more gear than they did. So we will have to make sure the Kurds don't lose, throw them some air support. We can borrow it from china! Meh, $#@! it, not like I'm going over there. I think its Alaska for me.

[pcosmar]

Options in Iraq

Get the $#@! Out not a poll option

btw,, the Kurds have arms.. They have arms markets.. they have Full auto weapons. (that US citizens are denied)

There was no fuss made there when Mosul was overrun and Christians beheaded.
Air strikes did not happen till some Satan worshipers were targeted. (Yazidi)

Not that I approve of the attacks on them,, but WTF?

[presence]

What about the status Quo?

Arm ISIS in Syria,
Arm the Kurds,
Arm Maliki,
Boots on the ground in 3 "embassies",
Airdrop water without parachutes,
Bomb the $#@! out of anyone that attempts to stop a Yazidi man from stoning his daughter,

...and sell boobus $100 month cable TV subscriptions to spectate!