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Thread: Mosul Dam will Collapse in Weeks if not Constantly Maintained by IS

  1. #1

    Mosul Dam will Collapse in Weeks if not Constantly Maintained by IS



    500,000 people could die

    []

    so poorly built that just failing to properly maintain it could cause a catastrophic failure
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1897539



    The U.S. government is “extremely concerned” about a brutal group of Islamist fighters seizing control of the Mosul Dam, a gargantuan, poorly-constructed dam in Iraq that, if breached, could launch a 65-foot-tall wall of water into one of the country's largest cities [Mosul] and send flood waters all the way to Baghdad.

    []

    Mosul Dam, the largest dam in Iraq, was constructed on a foundation of soluble soils that are continuously dissolving, resulting in the formation of cavities and voids underground that place the dam at risk for failure

    []

    The dam requires “extraordinary engineering measures” – namely constant grouting operations -- to fill in the holes and “maintain the structural integrity

    []

    The official familiar with the dam said that he is not aware of official U.S. calculations about how long the dam would last without grouting but says he understands it to be “on the order of weeks, not months.”
    https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-ex...ry?id=24900290


    Last edited by presence; 08-11-2014 at 08:42 AM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

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  3. #2
    Good, let it collapse.

  4. #3
    telegraphing the intent to bomb it... CIA guys on their way right now...

  5. #4
    I imagine Isis is a bit short on engineers .

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I imagine Isis is a bit short on engineers .

    Never know, Bin Laden had a degree in civil engineering.

  7. #6
    the country that has spent the past 20 years bombing the infrastructure of Iraq is suddenly worried about its infrastructure?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    the country that has spent the past 20 years bombing the infrastructure of Iraq is suddenly worried about its infrastructure?
    Must be an American engineering company that wants to be paid by the taxpayers to fix it.
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I imagine Isis is a bit short on engineers .
    They will be up to their eyeballs in engineers.
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  11. #9
    Mosul Dam will Collapse in Weeks if not Constantly Maintained by IS
    I doubt that. If someone sabotages it, that's a different story.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I doubt that. If someone sabotages it, that's a different story.
    Wall Street Journal ‎- 3 hours ago
    Sprawled across the Tigris River in a valley north of Mosul, the dam is a "ticking time bomb" with structural flaws
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/mosul...ing-1407799954

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Wall Street Journal ‎- 3 hours ago
    Sprawled across the Tigris River in a valley north of Mosul, the dam is a "ticking time bomb" with structural flaws
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/mosul...ing-1407799954
    Yeah, sounds like fear mongering and propaganda to me.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yeah, sounds like fear mongering and propaganda to me.
    Here's an unrelated piece from 2010 by the company that makes the grout injection system:

    Aug 25, 2010

    No fewer than 24 Aker Wirth universal drilling machines are currently in use for the continual maintenance of the Mosul Dam in Iraq. The Iraqi Ministry of Water Resources/State Commission for Dams & Reservoirs has now ordered parts for the B1-800 drills to the value of over € 1 million from our mechanical engineering company in Erkelenz, Germany. The delivery is scheduled for December 2010.



    The Mosul Dam was constructed as a cofferdam in the 1980s. Due to the geology of the underlying ground (marl, gypsum, anhydrite and limestone) continual maintenance work is necessary to ensure the stability of the dam (grouting, high-pressure injection). This work has been carried out using different Aker Wirth universal drilling systems for many years now.
    http://www.unitracc.com/aktuelles/ne...e-mosul-dam-en


    The Mosul Dam is made out of glorified sheetrock.


    2011-04-09
    Thirty-six specialized machines are now working around the clock to pump cement into the foundation of the dam trusses. More than 50 thousand tons of cement have been pumped into the soil during the past five years.
    http://mawtani.al-shorfa.com/en_GB/a.../09/feature-04


    That's a consumption rate of approximately


    3 of these daily:








    Hashem dismissed concerns about the collapse of the dam, which have recently circulated in the Iraqi street. "There is nothing to justify these fears," he said. "The collapse of the dam is not likely and is completely ruled out in view of the regular maintenance measures that are implemented by our ministry's engineering cadres."
    Last edited by presence; 08-12-2014 at 01:19 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Here's an unrelated piece from 2010 by the company that makes the grout injection system:
    Well, someone is making money on maintenance since the US invaded. I wonder what was done before that?

    It would be very interesting to see how long it lasted with no maintenance before a catastrophic failure.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Well, someone is making money on maintenance since the US invaded. I wonder what was done before that?

    It would be very interesting to see how long it lasted with no maintenance before a catastrophic failure.

    It was designed from the beginning to require constant maintenance; even pre 1991:

    Construction on the Mosul Dam began in 1980 by a German-Italian consortium that was led by Hochtief Aktiengesellschaft. Because the dam was constructed on a foundation of soluble gypsum, the engineers installed a grouting gallery that would allow continuous grouting of the dam's foundation in order to promote stability.

    []

    leaks began forming shortly after the reservoir was filled in 1986, and 24 machines currently continuously pump grout into the dam base.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam

    Hochtief was the engineering firm that moved The statue of Ramses the Great at the Great Temple of Abu Simbel in the 60's
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Simbel
    Last edited by presence; 08-12-2014 at 01:42 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    It was designed from the beginning to require constant maintenance; even pre 1991:
    Well, that's an engineering firms wet dream...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Wall Street Journal ‎- 3 hours ago
    Sprawled across the Tigris River in a valley north of Mosul, the dam is a "ticking time bomb" with structural flaws
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/mosul...ing-1407799954
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    No pics without signing up.

    Is it written in English?
    Hacked:


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    Mosul Dam's Takeover by ISIS Raises Risk of Flooding

    Constant Maintenance Needed to Avoid Catastrophic Failure of Dam's Structure


    By Nour Malas

    Aug. 11, 2014 7:32 p.m. ET

    ERBIL, Iraq—Along with a creeping Islamist threat on Iraqi Kurdistan and the plight of thousands of Iraqis trapped on a mountainside, there was a scientific calculation behind the U.S. decision to intervene in Iraq: the potential for a 65-foot wave to engulf the northern city of Mosul, and even flood the central capital Baghdad.

    The takeover of Mosul Dam, the country's largest, by Islamic militants on Aug. 7 was almost overshadowed by their blitz through several towns eastward, toward Erbil, the capital of the Kurdish-controlled region and home to thousands of U.S. citizens and government personnel.

    Now, the insurgents' hold on the dam has intensified concerns over risks to the structure.

    "Mosul Dam is essentially a ticking time bomb," said Azzam Alwash, an Iraqi hydraulic engineer. It has been problematic long before the surge in Iraq by Islamic State, an al Qaeda spinoff, because of a mix of bad geography and poorly executed reconstruction and maintenance, U.S. officials say.







    Sprawled across the Tigris River in a valley north of Mosul, the dam controls the water and power supply in northern Iraq. U.S. and Iraqi officials say it could unleash deadly flooding if its foundation—which needs daily cement injections—further erodes.

    It also puts a particularly lethal tool in the hands of an insurgent group that has strategically sought control of water resources in both Iraq and Syria, U.S. officials say. In Iraq, Islamic State already controls a dam in the country's west at Fallujah, and has moved on the nearby dam in Haditha.

    "It's a high concern for us," said one senior U.S. official. "I don't know if it could fail in a day…but that's a key concern for us."

    Some analysts said the Islamic State would likely use the Mosul Dam as a source of leverage in which it keeps the territory around the dam in exchange for continued water and power supply.

    The core of the problem is the gypsum base on which the Mosul Dam was built. Gypsum absorbs and dissolves in water, creating cavelike holes that have required filling with a mix of cement and other substances—a process called grouting—daily for three decades. Without grouting, said Mr. Alwash, the base would erode and unleash flooding, probably within six months. It would take just hours to flood Mosul, about 30 miles downstream.
    "It would be like a tsunami 20 meters high," he said. "You cannot run away fast enough."

    A 2006 report by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, one of the agencies advising the Iraqi government on the structure, called it "the most dangerous dam in the world." The following year, a project assessment by the Office for the Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, a federal agency, reported inadequate construction, contract issues, and chaos in the delivery and maintenance of key equipment.

    The U.S. invested more than $30 million upgrading, repairing and studying the dam between 2006 and 2010, said Stuart Bowen, the former U.S. inspector general for Iraq reconstruction. Mr. Bowen's report on the U.S. effort to improve the dam said the project had been plagued by mismanagement.
    "You'd have to call that project a failure at the time we visited it," Mr. Bowen said in an interview Sunday.

    The Islamic State seizure of the dam remains a source of disagreement in Iraq, a reflection of how catastrophic the potential for failure or damage is. Officials confirm reports from the ground that the militants took the dam from the Kurdish Peshmerga forces guarding it Thursday, after fierce clashes in the surrounding area. Officials in Baghdad and Erbil initially denied the reports and then went quiet. A representative for the Kurdistan Regional Government declined to comment Sunday.

    Atheel Nujaifi, governor of Nineveh province where Mosul sits, said the Islamic State completely controls the dam. Grouting stopped the day of the takeover, he said, because most employees, including all of the engineers, fled that Thursday.

    Only Abdulkhalek Dabbagh, general manager, remains at the dam, said Mr. Nujaifi, adding that he speaks to him regularly for field updates. An employee at the dam's power plant disputed that account, saying that at least a handful of engineers remain. Mr. Nujaifi fled the province after the Islamic State took Mosul on June 10.

    Mr. Dabbagh "stayed when the militants approached and he said: 'If something happens here there will be whole cities that are destroyed. So if you want to kill me, I will die right here at the dam,' " according to Mr. Nujaifi's recollection of a conversation he had with the dam's general manager.

    Mr. Dabbagh wasn't reachable to comment, and Mr. Nujaifi said he would not put him through for direct comment for security reasons.

    Protecting the dam could fall under President Barack Obama's military authorization order, U.S. officials said, because flooding would endanger U.S. personnel in Baghdad. On Thursday night, after the authorization was announced, a senior administration official said "a breach of the dam could cause flooding that could compromise our embassy."

    For now, the Pentagon's priority is to stop the insurgents from advancing on Erbil, create some space for Kurdish fighters to regroup and resupply, and find a way to rescue the Yazidi refugees on Mount Sinjar, officials said.

    It is unlikely that the Kurdish Peshmerga, or U.S. airstrikes, would seek to reclaim the dam, given the potential for damage. And any damage would flood towns south of Mosul that are largely under Islamic State control, suggesting the militants may not be motivated to take that kind of action.

    Mr. Nujaifi, the governor, said he doesn't believe the insurgents intend to bomb the dam. "However, what we fear is that they will play with the water level at the reservoir," he said, which would affect the supply of drinking water pumped from there. Already, militants have reduced the level enough to deprive Mosul of drinking water for two days, Mr. Nujaifi said.

    —Ali A. Nabhan, Dion Nissenbaum and Felicia Schwartz contributed to this article.

    Copyright ©2014 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
    Last edited by presence; 08-12-2014 at 02:41 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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