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Thread: Duane Crumbacher - OK State Senate district 48

  1. #1

    Duane Crumbacher - OK State Senate district 48

    I was finally sent the link to Duane Crumbacher's campaign FB:
    https://m.facebook.com/crumbacherforsenateok

    Duane is another 100% confirmed / vetted / Ron Paul supporting Liberty Candidate. I know him from working on Mark Thomas' campaign. He has been working on KBT's campaign as well. He is running for the open State Senate district 48 seat, which is being vacated by Kucinich-type liberal Connie Johnson to run against wankford for the US Senate.

    Duane was unopposed in the primary, so has already automatically made it to the general election, and is the first of this election's crop of OK Liberty Candidates to do so. His general election opponent is State Rep pittman, one of the worst statist democrats in the entire State Legislature. Duane's victory would be a double-shot, as not only would it get another excellent Liberty Candidate into the State Legislature, it would also remove one of the state's worst democrats from office and prevent her further political advancement.

    Although Duane hasn't yet started to ramp up his campaign (he has been concentrating on helping Mark Thomas and KBT get through the primary and now the runoff), he has reported already receiving donations from OK liberty folks. This is another great OK Liberty Candidate that could really use the help!






    Admin note: Donate to the money bomb here: http://crumbacherforsenatedistrict48...bmit-donation/








    .
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  3. #2
    Here's Duane's campaign website:
    http://crumbacherforsenatedistrict48.com/
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  4. #3
    Duane Crumbacher is our last Liberty Candidate left standing in OK. Onward to the general for Duane, he is our last chance to get an additional Ron Paul supporter into the State Legislature in this election! Duane has some campaign literature printed up and now his campaign kicks off into high gear. Many of the volunteers for Mark Thomas' campaign are now putting their efforts here. Duane needs donations for yard signs, he doesn't have any yet.

    Duane made a campaign appearance at a candidates' forum last week. In speaking with him tonight, he said that his meet and greet afterwards went extremely well (I also had another event to attend that evening), with several democrats saying that they will vote for him. His democrat opponent, who also spoke, didn't stick around to meet with the voters. Since this is a gerrymandered district, it leans about 55% democrat overall, with a large black population. It will be necessary to get democrats' votes to win this election. So out of an audience of maybe 3 dozen that was almost entirely democrats, having a handful of people already pledging crossover votes is extremely encouraging. democrat pittman spend her 10 minutes talking only about herself, and the fact that she's been elected and re-elected as a State Rep. Duane gave a few bio type details of wife and children and military service. Said he is pro-life, supports traditional marriage, and would vote against any sort of gun control legislation. Stated he's running on a platform of getting rid of corporate welfare, opposing the private prison industry, criminal justice reform, and police accountability.

    Kucinich -type Liberal Johnson also spoke. Her speech was well-received and also stuck to the issues, she hit on criminal justice reform and the need to protect our Constitutional rights. Johnson won her runoff in the democrat primary, and is running against wankford for the US Senate. I add this info about her because Duane is running for the seat she is vacating, her Senate run leaves this seat open, and she is quite popular in her district (deservedly so, she's an honest liberal). If Duane hits the right notes in this district, the voters do seem to see that pittman has a record of not addressing the very issues that the care about most. A little Rand styled minority outreach will go a long way in this district. Voter response so far shows this to be a very winnable race.
    http://www.news9.com/story/26378115/...ection-results
    State Sen. Connie Johnson has won the Democratic primary runoff election and will face Republican U.S. Rep. James Lankford in the race to fill an open Oklahoma U.S. Senate seat.

    Johnson beat perennial candidate Jim Rogers in Tuesday's contest. She has campaigned on several social and civil liberties issues, including the legalization of marijuana and reform of Oklahoma's criminal justice system, among others.

    She also says the state's economy is struggling and never fully regained its footing after the recession. She suggested putting people back to work rebuilding Oklahoma's -- and the nation's -- deteriorating infrastructure and crumbling roads and bridges.
    These issues have been Liberal Johnson's big strengths, and have played extremely well for her in this district.
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  5. #4
    I really admire people who get involved in their local politics. Everyone on this forum should take note of Invisible's effort. If you aren't spending some time each week getting local liberty candidates elected in your town, city, and state you are leaving your children a less promising future.

    "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt."
    -John Philpot Curran
    Find liberty candidates to support:
    http://www.candidates4liberty.com

  6. #5
    Charles Key, Mark Thomas, and KBT will all be working on Duane's campaign. I would expect Nathan Dahm to also become involved in some way, as he was with Mark and KBT's campaigns.
    It isn't just me, many liberty activists are working very hard on our candidates' campaigns, I'm only one volunteer out of dozens. Those who actually step up to run for office are the ones who truly deserve the appreciation most.
    Duane needs yard signs, and therefore needs donations! I'll be donating $10-20 in the next few days, who else is in?
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  7. #6
    After finding proof that Duane was an open Ron Paul supporting elector, I'll throw in $25 to his campaign.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/vict...r-liberty-ok-5
    Find liberty candidates to support:
    http://www.candidates4liberty.com

  8. #7
    After finally shaking free of some other commitments and managing to match schedules, I met with Duane last night to receive my first batch of knock lists and campaign literature. The first phase of the campaign will target Republican voters and those registered independent. The second phase of the campaign will specifically target the crossover democrat / black votes needed to win, and will utilize Rand and Gunny styled democrat / minority outreach (he really liked Gunny's Douglass idea). The campaign literature for the first phase looks absolutely fantastic, offering up the perfect blend of standard bio type info, both standard Republican red meat and Liberty Candidate talking points, and addressing issues that play well in the district. I'll have to post a picture, because Duane did a really excellent job of tayloring these to the district!

    There will be a fundraiser meet and greet event on October 2nd. Charles Key will be a prime participant, as well as other notable OK liberty folks. We need yard signs, and this will require bringing in additional donations! Duane is very interested in having a moneybomb in conjunction with his fundraising event. Can we make a moneybomb happen so that Duane can get some yard signs? I have PM'ed Bryan and another mod about this, and another local liberty activist has an account on DP, so hopefully we will be able to pull off a successful moneybomb. I've invited Duane to register here, so that he will be able to answer questions directly. In the meantime, his campaign contact info is:
    duanecrumbacher@duanecrumbacher.com
    (405) 664-7940

    Again, I stress that Duane's election would be a double victory, as this is also a chance to remove a statist democrat from the State Legislature and block her political advancement. Here's her votesmart link, and as you can see, her record as a State Rep is pretty awful: http://votesmart.org/candidate/66363/anastasia-pittman
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  9. #8
    Front and back of phase one campaign literature:

    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)



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  11. #9
    These state races are a great use of limited funds and also your time.
    Find liberty candidates to support:
    http://www.candidates4liberty.com

  12. #10
    So far, I've got about 1/3 of my first knock list covered. It's been going very well. My part of the district is heavily black, and so far every single person who has answered the door has been black. I've gotten some excellent responses. One woman was absolutely delighted that a Republican is running, and took the trouble to send a nice guy like me out to her door to ask for her vote. She was pleasantly surprised to find out that I lived on the other side of the neighborhood. Another elderly lady remembered seeing Duane speak at his campaign appearance, saying that he was one of the only candidates that bothered to speak about the issues. In my experience so far, black voters in the district seem quite receptive to Duane. Hopefully our efforts to expand on this will continue to be this successful!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    So far, I've got about 1/3 of my first knock list covered. It's been going very well. My part of the district is heavily black, and so far every single person who has answered the door has been black. I've gotten some excellent responses. One woman was absolutely delighted that a Republican is running, and took the trouble to send a nice guy like me out to her door to ask for her vote. She was pleasantly surprised to find out that I lived on the other side of the neighborhood. Another elderly lady remembered seeing Duane speak at his campaign appearance, saying that he was one of the only candidates that bothered to speak about the issues. In my experience so far, black voters in the district seem quite receptive to Duane. Hopefully our efforts to expand on this will continue to be this successful!
    The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Keep it up friend. The people who complain about the loss of liberty, but only take the action of complaining on the internet will forever contribute to the downslide. Everyone should be involved in local politics to support liberty.
    Find liberty candidates to support:
    http://www.candidates4liberty.com

  14. #12
    watching thread! love these kind of races

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jurgs01 View Post
    The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Keep it up friend. The people who complain about the loss of liberty, but only take the action of complaining on the internet will forever contribute to the downslide. Everyone should be involved in local politics to support liberty.
    This!
    State-level candidates are the best way to move the ball down the field, and give us the most bang for the buck. Here is where our Massies and Amashes come from. We cannot win unless we are willing to take action and put out the effort.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mommaliberty View Post
    watching thread! love these kind of races
    It's an interesting one, isn't it? The democrat seems to be taking the race for granted, and not really campaigning at all. Duane flew in under the radar in the primary, filing at the last minute before an opposing candidate could be dredged up. The demographics of the district will make a victory a huge upset, few are paying attention because it's considered a token gerrymandered seat. Flipping this district into the Republican win column will absolutely require working hard to get the necessary black and democrat crossover votes. Gunny has proved that a district like this is very winnable, and Duane's campaign is going about the race in a very similar way. It's all about running on the issues, and getting the message out.
    Last edited by invisible; 09-23-2014 at 01:42 PM. Reason: added last sentence
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  17. #15
    Just got back from Duane's fundraiser event. It went well, we had a lot of fun, and donations were collected. Duane has his moneybomb ongoing, as you've probably noticed from Bryan being so gracious as to donate a bit of banner space. Have you donated yet? Let's get Duane some yard signs!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  18. #16
    Sending a note of encouragement and thanks to all who have helped Duane Crumbacher already with time and money. He is an amazing man of principle and energy working hard in Oklahoma for life and for liberty!

    The banner space is awesome here and an encouragement to all of us in Oklahoma -- all over the state.

    Donations large and small will be utilized to make a difference and spread the message!

    OKGrassroots article here: http://okgrassroots.com/?p=495026



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  20. #17
    Duane appeared at another candidates' forum today, it was an extremely interesting experience. In addition to the same themes mentioned in his earlier appearance, he also spoke about why it was important to oppose the private prison industry, and more detail about how holding police accountable would prevent another Ferguson, and would have prevented the killing of a theater patron last year.

    Another candidate spoke, running for State Rep, and his entire message was "vote for me because I'm black". The audience actually called him out on this, peppering him with questions about where he stood on various issues. He gave non-answers to the best of his ability, and then ducked out so that he didn't have to talk with anyone afterwards. It was amazing to see the response he got, and how readily he was called out.

    Afterwards, while Duane worked the room, I made sure that everyone got a piece of campaign literature. His speech proved to be very effective, since at least half of the people there said (without prompting) that they were going to vote for him (again, this was an almost entirely black audience). People were coming up to me and asking for a piece of his campaign literature. The entire experience was highly encouraging, the voters in the district seem very willing to vote on the issues alone, and look past things like party and race.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  21. #18
    It looks like democrat pittman is scared. Word must have gotten back to her about how well Duane's campaign is doing. Today she put up two large signs, one at each entrance to Duane's neighborhood. Their only purpose is an attempt to intimidate, since these are the ONLY signs that have appeared for her. Looks like she is too late to realize her mistake in taking this election for granted, as her campaign is all but nonexistent. Hopefully Duane's strong ground game can eke out a win and flip a gerrymandered district red!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    It looks like democrat pittman is scared. Word must have gotten back to her about how well Duane's campaign is doing. Today she put up two large signs, one at each entrance to Duane's neighborhood. Their only purpose is an attempt to intimidate, since these are the ONLY signs that have appeared for her. Looks like she is too late to realize her mistake in taking this election for granted, as her campaign is all but nonexistent. Hopefully Duane's strong ground game can eke out a win and flip a gerrymandered district red!
    Nice, how are the fundraising numbers?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Nice, how are the fundraising numbers?
    Duane still does not have enough to get yard signs. Donations are sorely needed! This is OK's only chance to get an additional Ron Paul supporter into the State Legislature this election, and we still don't have enough for yard signs. Please help Duane out if you can, every little bit helps, this is a really excellent candidate!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  24. #21
    Duane in Oklahoma needs a prime~time BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #22
    Update:
    Duane reports that a few more significant donations have come in, and he is now only several hundred dollars away from getting some yard signs! If you have not donated yet, PLEASE do so, as time is starting to run short. The democrat pittman has had several more of her large signs go up, this time in my part of the district. Duane is going to need some signs here. Can we make sure that he gets them? Between everyone here on RPF, surely we can come up with a couple hundred to get another five-star Liberty Candidate into office! I've already donated all that I can, how about YOU?
    Last edited by invisible; 10-23-2014 at 08:56 PM. Reason: added bolding
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  26. #23
    I know some people here are good at setting up money bombs. Can anybody help help out on promoting it here? this is the sort of race that matters!
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  27. #24
    Bump. If you have grassroots boots on the ground in local races you know money is going to go further.
    Find liberty candidates to support:
    http://www.candidates4liberty.com



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  29. #25
    Today's knocking was interesting. As I was walking past, one girl on her porch called out to me, and asked if I was out asking people to vote for a candidate. If she was a voter, she was obviously a democrat, since she wasn't on my knock list. I walked up and gave her a piece of campaign literature, and she asked why I was out trying to get people to vote for a Republican in this neighborhood. When I explained that I lived in the neighborhood myself, told her where, and that Duane was running on a platform of criminal justice reform, her eyes widened. She asked me to convince her why she should vote for a Republican, and started grilling me (pretty brutally, too) on the issues. Eventually her brother came out and joined in. They were quite intelligent and informed. I spent a fair amount of time with them, then started to excuse myself by saying that they were welcome to call the number and talk to Duane himself if they had any further questions. She immediately picked up her phone and started dialing, and asked my name. I gave it to her and explained that he might not answer because he was out doing the very same thing, but would call back as soon as he finished talking with whoever he might be with at the moment. She left a message, and the conversation ended with her telling me that she would vote for him if he actually called her back. In talking to Duane later in the evening, he said that she not only told him that she would vote for him, but that she would also talk all her friends into voting for him as well!

    At another point, while walking down the street, someone driving by stopped, pulled up next to me, and said hello. I said good afternoon, and they asked if I was out getting people to vote. He thanked me for the piece of campaign literature, said he would look into Duane, and drove off.

    Duane unfortunately didn't get the funding he needed for yard signs. However, he did get enough to send out a nice mailer. I'll post pictures of it soon, it's another great piece of work. A few signs for pittman have gone up in public places, but none in anyone's yard, and there aren't very many. Someone knocking today reported seeing a mailer from pittman sticking out of someone's mailbox, so it looks like that's all her campaign has consisted of, and it's too late for her to do anything else, especially like assemble and execute a ground game. Kenny Bob Tapp is coming into town tomorrow to help knock. Some people came in from the Tulsa area today to help. It looks like we'll be able to finish covering the entire district before the election. Hopefully a well-played ground game will make the difference and put Duane over the top for a win!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Today's knocking was interesting. As I was walking past, one girl on her porch called out to me, and asked if I was out asking people to vote for a candidate. If she was a voter, she was obviously a democrat, since she wasn't on my knock list. I walked up and gave her a piece of campaign literature, and she asked why I was out trying to get people to vote for a Republican in this neighborhood. When I explained that I lived in the neighborhood myself, told her where, and that Duane was running on a platform of criminal justice reform, her eyes widened. She asked me to convince her why she should vote for a Republican, and started grilling me (pretty brutally, too) on the issues. Eventually her brother came out and joined in. They were quite intelligent and informed. I spent a fair amount of time with them, then started to excuse myself by saying that they were welcome to call the number and talk to Duane himself if they had any further questions. She immediately picked up her phone and started dialing, and asked my name. I gave it to her and explained that he might not answer because he was out doing the very same thing, but would call back as soon as he finished talking with whoever he might be with at the moment. She left a message, and the conversation ended with her telling me that she would vote for him if he actually called her back. In talking to Duane later in the evening, he said that she not only told him that she would vote for him, but that she would also talk all her friends into voting for him as well!

    At another point, while walking down the street, someone driving by stopped, pulled up next to me, and said hello. I said good afternoon, and they asked if I was out getting people to vote. He thanked me for the piece of campaign literature, said he would look into Duane, and drove off.

    Duane unfortunately didn't get the funding he needed for yard signs. However, he did get enough to send out a nice mailer. I'll post pictures of it soon, it's another great piece of work. A few signs for pittman have gone up in public places, but none in anyone's yard, and there aren't very many. Someone knocking today reported seeing a mailer from pittman sticking out of someone's mailbox, so it looks like that's all her campaign has consisted of, and it's too late for her to do anything else, especially like assemble and execute a ground game. Kenny Bob Tapp is coming into town tomorrow to help knock. Some people came in from the Tulsa area today to help. It looks like we'll be able to finish covering the entire district before the election. Hopefully a well-played ground game will make the difference and put Duane over the top for a win!
    Great work!

    One of the great things about doing these local campaigns is that win or lose, you may have recruited some new followers to the cause of liberty. Ideas multiply. Good luck to Duane!

    https://www.facebook.com/candidates4...12926858892823

    Find liberty candidates to support:
    http://www.candidates4liberty.com

  31. #27
    At this point, the campaign has wrapped up, and we've done all we can do. The only thing left is voting tomorrow and waiting for the results to come in. In today's door knocking, I saw the only two non black faces answering the door. One girl was white, the other looked Mexican and refused the campaign literature, saying that her family didn't vote (hmmmm). Other than that, every single person thoughout the campaign who has answered the door has been black. It's certainly been an interesting experience, working the black and crossover democrat votes almost exclusively. All precincts have been knocked except one, and there were 3-4 more that were 80-90% completed. Not bad for an entire district.

    The biggest problem Duane has had is running in a gerrymandered district. The campaign fell short on both volunteers and donations, and I suspect that it was due to people writing his race off for this reason. We had neither the manpower or the donations necessary to pull off the second phase of the campaign to target democrats with door knocking or a mailer, and had no choice but to focus entirely on households registered Republican or independent. We just simply did the best we could with what we had. Hopefully it will be enough.

    This was an extremely difficult race to analyze. Since the district was drawn, no Republican has ever tried to run in it. Connie Johnson came in via a special election, and since she has run unopposed every time, no numbers exist to analyze except for voter registrations. The conclusions we were able to come to were:
    1) Turnout is traditionally low in the midterms, making GOTV efforts crucial
    2) The numbers of registered voters in the district were inflated for democrats, due to people who don't usually vote registering just to vote for obomba in the last 8 years
    3) These voters are neither motivated or informed enough to vote in the midterm elections
    4) The democrat pittman didn't really campaign, and took the election for granted
    Because of this, the campaign came to the conclusion that if we were able to GOTV effectively, there would be enough Republican and independent voters to win. So we're banking on low democrat turnout in the midterms, and that our ground campaign was effective to GOTV. The wildcard here is Connie Johnson running against wankford for the US Senate. Since she is very popular in the district, it's possible that she may draw more democrats to the polls than would otherwise happen in a midterm election.

    I'd like to thank those dedicated Ron Paul supporters who worked as hard as they could to pull this off, especially Mark Thomas, Charles Key, and Kenny Bob Tapp (who drove in all the way from the panhandle to help knock doors). A special thanks also goes out to Bryan for donating the banner ad here for Duane's fundraising efforts. And another thanks to those of you who donated. All of you helped make this campaign possible.

    If Duane wins, it will be a very, very sweet victory. We had to pull this campaign off on a shoestring budget, Duane didn't even get enough donations to get yard signs. A victory will have come almost entirely from a ground game. The democrat didn't even really run a campaign at all - she only made one campaign appearance, never talked to the voters, only put up a few signs in public places, and sent out a mailer. Personally, I peg Duane's chances at 50-50. It's either going to be a very narrow upset victory, or a landslide loss. After all the hard work we did, I really hope we're able to pull this one off.

    Edit: Here are some further thoughts on an attempt to quantify Duane's chances.

    Both candidates sent mailers out. Duane's was sent to R and I households. It is unknown whether pittman's mailer only went out to d households, or included the I's. I suspect the latter. So both candidates seemed to make an equal effort here.

    Campaign appearances - Duane made 3 campaign appearances, plus his fundraising event. In each of these appearances, he talked with the voters afterwards, and got an overwhelmingly positive response. pittman made one appearance, didn't speak on the issues at all, and ducked out early to avoid all contact with the voters.

    Signs - Duane didn't have any at all. pittman has perhaps a dozen of them up in public locations, none of them are in anyone's yard.

    Ground game - pittman had none whatsoever. Duane knocked doors of probably somewhere around 90%+ of R and I registered households. The responses I personally got, both knocking doors and at campaign appearances, were overwhelmingly positive. Others reported the same results.

    Gunny proved that a district like this is quite winnable. The only thing that Duane didn't have compared to his opponent was yard signs, and even then, her effort was minimal. The big question here is, will more campaign appearances of higher quality, plus the ground game, be enough to offset the approximately 5% gerrymandering of the district?
    Last edited by invisible; 11-04-2014 at 12:31 AM. Reason: added further thoughts
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  32. #28
    No matter the outcome, I hope you and Duane are proud of what you did. Even if it's a landslide loss, you've identified a number of voters who are open/supportive of the message.
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  33. #29
    I really hope he wins, our candidates put their hearts and souls into these races.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  34. #30
    Yes, we are all very proud of not only Duane's campaign, but KBT's and Mark Thomas' as well. We put an immense amount of effort out, and hopefully it will all finally pay off tonight when the votes are tallied. In the worst case scenario, if Duane loses, pittman will term out at the end of one 4 year term in the State Senate. This will leave the seat open again, and Duane will have the advantage of name recognition when he runs again, which he will do if he doesn't win today.

    Here's front and back pictures of the mailer (the key is placed there to obscure the name and address):


    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

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