TERMS need to be changed

[Drknows]

This needs to be brought up and settled
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/terms.php

TERMS OF PURCHASE

You are buying timeshare advertising from Liberty Political Advertising, a for-profit political advertising agency. You are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee.

Your purchase is not refundable.

Why cant you refund money minus the processing fee? If the blimp never raises X amount? and what about the left over funds after the Ron Paul Blimp Project is done?

[cien750hp]

i think thats for like if you just decide you want your money back then no refund will be issued. all money given to them should be guaranteed towards the blimp. you shouldn't just be able to decide you want to go on vacation and have them give it back.

however, i'd like to see them state that money will be refunded if the needed amount is not reached, or that the blimp company will let them fly, banking on them getting all the needed money once people see it in the air

[Drknows]

i think thats for like if you just decide you want your money back then no refund will be issued. all money given to them should be guaranteed towards the blimp. you shouldn't just be able to decide you want to go on vacation and have them give it back.

however, i'd like to see them state that money will be refunded if the needed amount is not reached, or that the blimp company will let them fly, banking on them getting all the needed money once people see it in the air

Well i understand that but this needs to be clarified and changed. I keep seeing this brought up in every thread.

[rory096]

I agree that this should be clarified to make people more comfortable donating. It seems to be about people just deciding they want a refund, but what happens if we don't end up with enough money?

[synthetic]

I offered a competing service that would provide a refund with a small processing fee. No one seemed to care for it. The thread was closed down and moved. The market has spoken my friend.

The big discussion, and rightfully so, is just how much should be paid to this volunteer who plans to sleep just 4 hours a night. I hope he negotiates a couple 15 minute breaks and a lunch hour.

[millerjd]

I agree that this should be clarified to make people more comfortable donating. It seems to be about people just deciding they want a refund, but what happens if we don't end up with enough money?

I don't know the answer to this, by any means, but if for whatever reason it doesn't take off (hah, pun). Let's even say we only ended up with $20k, it could be used to buy a billboard, banner plane, tattooing all the prostitutes in the major markets with RP08 Logos... who knows..

..considering the fact that the blimp is already being prepared for our use, I wouldn't be surprised if the company came out with news that someone is putting a real large chunk of money towards it... just speculation, hope.

[Drknows]

I agree that this should be clarified to make people more comfortable donating. It seems to be about people just deciding they want a refund, but what happens if we don't end up with enough money?

Not just clarified it needs to be changed. Terms mean everything.

This needs to be transparent and the use of funds should be too.


I have faith in the supporters running it but now its a business separate from the grassroots. Not just some 30 day advertising project. Its starting to look like a independent business that could run ads for other campaigns or causes.

[trueg]

Wait, I just read the terms. Why is this blimp thing "for profit"? Who is getting the profit? Shouldn't this be a non-for-profit sort of thing?

[Cyclone]

I don't get this. Who is going to get the money from the advertising from the blimp? Ron Paul or Trevor Lyman? Everything I see on that website, says Trevor Lyman's advertising agency will be making the money.

What am I missing?

It seems clear from "You are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee." that they are not intending to form a political action committee to take this money and use for Ron Paul. I am pretty sure they are using it to make money for Trevor Lyman's advertising agency.

If I am wrong, please point it out to me. But, this looks like a way to USE Ron Paul's popularity to make a bundle off of the grassroots and advertising customers. Even worse, is he is using the grass roots as the venture capitalists to get his new company up and running and unlike VC, the grass roots won't get a dime of a return investment.

[Jagwarr]

Just because a company says "NO REFUNDS" does not mean you can't get your money back from your credit card.

Before a no refund clause kicks in a company must first provide the service or deliver the product to you. For example if you buy a cell phone online from a company that has a no refund policy they still must deliver that cell phone to you.

If you donate $100 from the blimp website you are buying 4 mins of ad time, if the blimp never flies then you would be able to chargeback your money since the product/service was never delivered, you would win this argument every time, so I agree the terms should reflect this in some way.

Edit: Paypal requires items to be tangible goods for refunds if I remember correctly, so it's better to use a credit card.

[JohnnyWrath]

I am pretty sure they are using it to make money for Trevor Lyman's advertising agency.

Welcome to the club.....Elijah and Trevor both quit their jobs because they can make more money off of us.

[millerjd]

This horse has been beaten to death by other posters and has been replied to many times... move on..

[rory096]

I don't get this. Who is going to get the money from the advertising from the blimp? Ron Paul or Trevor Lyman? Everything I see on that website, says Trevor Lyman's advertising agency will be making the money.

What am I missing?

It seems clear from "You are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee." that they are not intending to form a political action committee to take this money and use for Ron Paul. I am pretty sure they are using it to make money for Trevor Lyman's advertising agency.

If I am wrong, please point it out to me. But, this looks like a way to USE Ron Paul's popularity to make a bundle off of the grassroots and advertising customers. Even worse, is he is using the grass roots as the venture capitalists to get his new company up and running and unlike VC, the grass roots won't get a dime of a return investment.

The "advertising agency" is the company that's paying for the blimp, things associated with the blimp like a spotlight, and the salaries of various personnel for the project. This would not work with the PAC, so structuring it as a for-profit LLC makes it legal.

Wait, I just read the terms. Why is this blimp thing "for profit"? Who is getting the profit? Shouldn't this be a non-for-profit sort of thing?

See above. The people running this are getting salaries, but there's no difference between a for-profit and a non-profit in this respect; people running non-profits can get salaries too. Structuring as paying for advertising time (by making it a for-profit LLC) merely makes it legal.

[fletcher]

You are buying timeshare advertising from Liberty Political Advertising, a for-profit political advertising agency. You are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee.

LOL. Why am I not surprised that Trevor is the president. Good luck suckers.

[rory096]

LOL. Why am I not surprised that Trevor is the president. Good luck suckers.

They also have the former chairman of the Federal Election Commission serving as counsel and they've been mentioned in several newspaper articles. This is far too high profile to be a scam; the company would be sued and people would get their money back if it was.

[Jagwarr]

This blimp thing is now going to cause lots of friction and really should be removed from this forum in short order. Trevor has our email addresses so he can contact everyone that way. Tomorrow when everyone learns about the changes some are going lose focus and leave these forums. I think these guys have good intentions and think it's fantastic for them to start a buisness but this is not the place for it.

[rory096]

This blimp thing is now going to cause lots of friction and really should be removed from this forum in short order. Trevor has our email addresses so he can contact everyone that way. Tomorrow when everyone learns about the changes some are going to simply leave these forums. I think these guys have good intentions and think it's fantastic for them to start a buisness but this is not the place for it.

This is hardly a business working solely for its own profit, it's a shell company to allow us to legally contribute to the blimp effort.

[millerjd]

This is hardly a business working solely for its own profit, it's a shell company to allow us to legally contribute to the blimp effort.

+1

good usage of those thing I like to call 'words'.

[synthetic]

This is hardly a business working solely for its own profit, it's a shell company to allow us to legally contribute to the blimp effort.

They are looking for compensation for 20 hour work days. Seems a bit high for a shell company don't ya think?

[JohnnyWrath]

This is hardly a business working solely for its own profit, it's a shell company to allow us to legally contribute to the blimp effort.

I disagree...they are literally trying to make millions from what I see.

[Jagwarr]

This is hardly a business working solely for its own profit, it's a shell company to allow us to legally contribute to the blimp effort.

I understand, but clearly the reaction we are seeing tonight shows how many will feel about it and this is a grassroots forum after all. Tough call but since they have our emails already there isn't much to gain from the distraction.

[rory096]

They are looking for compensation for 20 hour work days. Seems a bit high for a shell company don't ya think?

Hold on, what? Getting paid to work 20 hours a week to make sure the thing we're donating for happens and we get the full effect possible from it is a bit high?

[rory096]

I disagree...they are literally trying to make millions from what I see.

They've already said they're not getting rich off this and they're only taking the salaries they got at their last job- they've even made a thread asking us what salaries we think are reasonable. What makes you think they're looking to make millions? What makes you think that would even be possible, considering they're only aiming to raise $350,000?

[synthetic]

Hold on, what? Getting paid to work 20 hours a week to make sure the thing we're donating for happens and we get the full effect possible from it is a bit high?

These are real Ron Paul supporters. Read that thread title again. These guys are stepping up, they plan to work 20 hours a day for their shell company.

[rory096]

These are real Ron Paul supporters. Read that thread title again. These guys are stepping up, they plan to work 20 hours a day for their shell company.

So? I'm not seeing your point.

[seapilot]

They've already said they're not getting rich off this and they're only taking the salaries they got at their last job- they've even made a thread asking us what salaries we think are reasonable. What makes you think they're looking to make millions? What makes you think that would even be possible, considering they're only aiming to raise $350,000?

Its good to debate and discuss this. They would like to keep the blimp flying as long as they can recieve funds for it.

It was initally for one month but now it is as long as the funds last.

They are betting on Dr. Paul getting more popular ,meaning if the blimp is a bust (as some naysayers think its a waste of money) then it will cease to exist. If it proves to be a popular icon and Dr. Paul gains recognition in the media and the electorate from its advertising then it will thrive and everyone will be happy.

As far as concerns about losing money, well we give 30% of our earnings to the IRS and they use the money to build bridges to nowhere. Then the Social security goes who knows where and many will never collect on it. These are the biggest scams!

So if someone happens to take a gamble on 25 bucks for something that they actually want to happen then so be it, at least we currently have the freedom of choice to take that risk.

[JohnnyWrath]

I have donated several times so far, I am NOT donating to help these two start a business....the whole concept screws up the grass roots effort deal.

I have my own goals in life, and I will put my money towards my own family before I am going to help these people start a business.

Someone else take control of the blimp idea....my money will be there....


People all over the internet do NOT like Trevor...try to understand....

[JoeSixPack]

I have donated several times so far, I am NOT donating to help these two start a business....the whole concept screws up the grass roots effort deal.

I have my own goals in life, and I will put my money towards my own family before I am going to help these people start a business.

Someone else take control of the blimp idea....my money will be there....


People all over the internet do NOT like Trevor...try to understand....

Yep. I don't think I've ever seen anyone take such a clear success and implode it into a craptastic mess so fast. I think this will become an expensive lesson (but one that had to be learned).

[tangent4ronpaul]

I offered a competing service that would provide a refund with a small processing fee. No one seemed to care for it. The thread was closed down and moved. The market has spoken my friend.

And as you have made several pro-money making posts about this - just where do you stand? Are you a member of this group, and if so who and in what possition? If not - who are you?

Where did that thread move? - I don't remember it????

-n

[LFOD]

I pledged a small amount, but will not be donating primarily because the "no refund" policy does not address what happens to the donations if they do not get the amount actually required to hire the blimp.

I have other philosophical issues with the project as well, which have been stated many times by others. But the no-refund policy is #1.