Do good cops exist?

[Christian Liberty]

Poll coming. Define "good cop" however you want. I'm just kind of curious where the average person stands WRT the idea of "good cops."

[TheTexan]

Oxymoron

[William Tell]

Do good People exist, FF?
Tell me, fellow sinner

[TheTexan]

Do good People exist, FF?

Do good murderers exist? Do good rapists exist?

[Natural Citizen]

Do good People exist, FF?

I know that this question was directed to someone else but it is the benchmark that I used when answering this poll. There are a lot of good people who just happen to be police officers. People who are active in their communities. People who volunteer, people who coach youth sports and people who would give you the shirt off of their back if they needed it. I know many of them who consistently demonstrate good citizenship and are generally normal people.

Are there $#@!s? Absolutely. But the same model goes with the baker or the clerk.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The whole "There's good cops and there's bad cops" is a silly exercise that distracts from real issues. Are there good barbers and bad barbers? How about good teachers and bad teachers? How about just about anything in the world that can be placed on such a scale?

The fact that a person participates in roadblocks, drug arrests, and all items like this makes that person bad. These people are bugs.

[Christian Liberty]

Do good People exist, FF?
Tell me, fellow sinner

No, there aren't any good people in the truest sense. But, I wasn't necessarily thinking theologically about it. My Christianity informs all of my thinking, obviously. But I was thinking of it at a much more superficial level. If I asked if there was any such thing as a good thief or a good murderer, would you have answered the same way?

[TheTexan]

I know that this question was directed to someone else but it is the benchmark that I used when answering this poll. There are a lot of good people who just happen to be police officers. People who are active in their communities. People who volunteer, people who coach youth sports and people who would give you the shirt off of their back if they needed it. I know many of them who consistently demonstrate good citizenship and are generally normal people, and will not hesitate to knock down your door, and invade your home with guns raised, if simply given the order.

See above. I finished your sentence there for you.

[buenijo]

Yes. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Blame the laws and the perverse incentives they foster.

[AuH20]

Of course, there are good cops. Not everyone is a sociopath.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Guess there are two ways people might interpret this question.

1. Cop enforces the law with restraint and good judgement therefore he is good.

2. Cop enforces laws which are currently unconstitutional therefore he is bad.

[Massachusetts]

Yes. Just because you don't read about them in news stories on the RPF doesn't mean they don't exist. Although I don't trust the police in general.

[Christian Liberty]

I know that this question was directed to someone else but it is the benchmark that I used when answering this poll. There are a lot of good people who just happen to be police officers. People who are active in their communities. People who volunteer, people who coach youth sports and people who would give you the shirt off of their back if they needed it. I know many of them who consistently demonstrate good citizenship and are generally normal people.

Are there $#@!s? Absolutely. But the same model goes with the baker or the clerk.

The whole "There's good cops and there's bad cops" is a silly exercise that distracts from real issues. Are there good barbers and bad barbers? How about good teachers and bad teachers? How about just about anything in the world that can be placed on such a scale?

The fact that a person participates in roadblocks, drug arrests, and all items like this makes that person bad. These people are bugs.

I'm a little conflicted in that I agree with what both of you are saying. There are "good people" (in a non-theological sense) that participate in all forms of careers, including law enforcement. Decent people who would, as NC put it, give you the shirt off their backs, are involved in their communities, and so forth. But then there's NorthCarolinaLiberty's comment, which is also correct. Participating in roadblocks, drug arrests, and so forth is unacceptable, and if that's what "police" are than police are bad.

I agree that its too simplistic, but I deliberately made it simple on purpose because I'm curious what our gut responses are (and yes, that's obviously going to differ from person to person.) Some people, when forced to make a simple good/bad assessment will say that some cops are good. Other people, when forced to make that same assessment, will say that cops are bad simply by virtue of being cops. Being forced to make that assessment (and yes, I realize I forced myself to do it) I have to say that cops are inherently bad, because the PROFESSION is inherently bad. Now, would I say that there are decent people for whom one character flaw is being a police officer? Yeah. But its still a character flaw, by definition. And that's where I'd differ from the "there are good cops and bad cops" people.

Regarding good barbers and bad barbers, yeah, there are probably people who are good at the job and people who aren't... same with teachers. But that's not what people really mean when they say "good cops" or "bad cops." We're judging them by an ethical standard, not a competence standard.

[Christian Liberty]

Of course, there are good cops. Not everyone is a sociopath.

So I guess your definition of "good cop" is not a sociopath. That's not the definition I'd use, but OK.

[LibForestPaul]

Mao was a good leader. The twenty million dead farmers was just an unfortunate necessity to bring the country forward with progress and prosperity.

[William Tell]

No, there aren't any good people in the truest sense. But, I wasn't necessarily thinking theologically about it. My Christianity informs all of my thinking, obviously. But I was thinking of it at a much more superficial level. If I asked if there was any such thing as a good thief or a good murderer, would you have answered the same way?

I don't know if I would have, it's just the first thing that popped into my mind. But you see the problem, most of us have a vague line between what makes a person good and bad, including myself.

[Christian Liberty]

I don't know if I would have, it's just the first thing that popped into my mind. But you see the problem, most of us have a vague line between what makes a person good and bad, including myself.

I do too. But my attitude toward the idea of police has definitely changed a lot in the past year. A year ago I probably would have been more sympathetic to the idea of good cops. Now... not really.

I guess the way I look at it is like this: If there's a good person who's a cop (and yes, I think there are good people who are cops) they are good people DESPITE being cops, not because of it. And they'd be better people if they weren't cops.

[Christian Liberty]

Hmmm... I'm really surprised to see 62% voting yes so far. I though I was relatively soft on police*, but I guess not compared to the average here

*For this forum obviously.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Regarding good barbers and bad barbers, yeah, there are probably people who are good at the job and people who aren't... same with teachers. But that's not what people really mean when they say "good cops" or "bad cops." We're judging them by an ethical standard, not a competence standard.

FF,

My comparison actually address this ethical standard. Every single job you do in life is tied to ethics. Is he doing his job ethically? Who? The educator? The politician? The businessman? The parent?

That's why this question that somebody, somewhere formulated is such a silly distraction. It inevitably leads in the direction of bad apple syndrome. "Oh yes, THAT guy is REALLY bad, but, by and large, everything and everyone else is just peachy."

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Were there any good Nazis?

[William Tell]

If you had asked if I wanted to abolish police departments, I would have voted yes. But attacking the individuals who happen to be police, only helps in driving the good, or less bad ones out of that line of work. I prefer more moral people in government, even if I was in prison, I would prefer more decent guards and wardens, for hopefully obvious reasons. I stand with Oathkeepers.

[William Tell]

Were there any good Nazis?

Are there good Obama supporters?

[TheTexan]

Are there good Obama supporters?

Obama supporters aren't, by profession, using violent force against innocent people

[PaulConventionWV]

Yes. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Blame the laws and the perverse incentives they foster.

Nuremberg defense.

The Stasi stormtroopers were just doing their jobs. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Christian Liberty]

If you had asked if I wanted to abolish police departments, I would have voted yes. But attacking the individuals who happen to be police, only helps in driving the good, or less bad ones out of that line of work. I prefer more moral people in government, even if I was in prison, I would prefer more decent guards and wardens, for hopefully obvious reasons. I stand with Oathkeepers.

Yeah, I understand. But, I think a slave would prefer a less harsh master to. And for good reason. That doesn't mean there are good slave masters. How is this any different?

I honestly don't know much about oathkeepers. Do they actually refuse to enforce unconstitutional orders or do they just talk about it? Have any of them been imprisoned for their convictions?

[Christian Liberty]

Obama supporters aren't, by profession, using violent force against innocent people

Well, they certainly condone such. I wouldn't say there are any good Obama supporters either

[William Tell]

Obama supporters aren't, by profession, using violent force against innocent people

Neither were the common members of the National Socialist Party. But both sets of voters backed up the evil leaders, and gave them power.

[William Tell]

I honestly don't know much about oathkeepers. Do they actually refuse to enforce unconstitutional orders or do they just talk about it? Have any of them been imprisoned for their convictions?

Hmm, they are just an advocacy organization, so it is kind of like asking if members of Gun Owners of America have gone to prison for their convictions. I do know that Oathkeepers insists you should follow your oath regardless of consequences. They were formed recently, but they gave an award to Michael New, who was court martialed and dishonorably discharged for refusing to serve under U.N Command.

[PaulConventionWV]

If you had asked if I wanted to abolish police departments, I would have voted yes. But attacking the individuals who happen to be police, only helps in driving the good, or less bad ones out of that line of work. I prefer more moral people in government, even if I was in prison, I would prefer more decent guards and wardens, for hopefully obvious reasons. I stand with Oathkeepers.

The good guys are already being driven out of police work because the police don't want good guys.

Besides, the solution is not to encourage the participation of good people in an inherently bad institution. The solution is to undermine the institution by making nobody want to be a police officer. Getting good people into the system only perpetuates the system.

Everyone is corruptible, and the police make it very easy. Do you really think we are ever going to get enough "good guys" into that profession to significantly improve things? Why not just work on getting people to avoid anything that has anything to do with police?

[William Tell]

The good guys are already being driven out of police work because the police don't want good guys.

Besides, the solution is not to encourage the participation of good people in an inherently bad institution. The solution is to undermine the institution by making nobody want to be a police officer. Getting good people into the system only perpetuates the system.

Everyone is corruptible, and the police make it very easy. Do you really think we are ever going to get enough "good guys" into that profession to significantly improve things? Why not just work on getting people to avoid anything that has anything to do with police?

For the same reason I want good people to be elected to public office. To expose, and if possible restore. I see no real downside.The system will not stop with all the good people out, it will just get more evil. Like I said, I support abolishing police departments but until such time as that occurs I want good people in them.