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Thread: Michael Scheuer goes after Rand

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyJones View Post
    Scheuer like many who have been elevated in the last 7 years is worried about the number of "hits" he is getting
    “Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest?" - Milton Friedman
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by georgiaboy View Post
    This is Michael trolling the establishment.
    Yea by some people's logic, couldn't Shuerer just be making Rand's positions on Ukraine and Israel all that more believable to the neo-con crowd by speaking out against him? I guess the problem with reverse psychology is you never actually end up knowing what someone is truly thinking until the end.

    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Translation: You didn't know $#@! before Ron Paul, and now you have really don't know what to believe, having not really followed up on Ron Paul's reading lists...
    don't talk down on people.. people always know things you don't one way or another, politics or otherwise

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    He's entitled to his opinion.
    so is matt i believe..



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Maybe appropriate here?

    How come the Rand Paul subreddit has hardly any posters?
    http://www.dailypaul.com/323279/how-...ly-any-posters
    maybe you can help us out?

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    If Mr.Scheuer can't see what game Randal is really playing with that bill then he hasn't thought about it too deeply. I'm guessing this is just some showmanship from Mike.
    That's what I'm talking about.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    It's a tough position to be in when the extremes from both sides spin and twist your words in an attempt to create as much outrage as possible on their respective ends of the spectrum. Perhaps Hillary can jump in too and say that Rand's foreign policy is a war on women.
    Rand's words are there.

    I've yet to even read Scheuer's words. Don't know if I will.

    It is a predictable response, though.

    Next I'll be shocked to hear that Scott Horton has a few things to say about Rand's interview.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Scheurer is apparently not as smart as I thought he was.
    Not every1 can see what we see. When I was 15, I was already skeptical of Rand.



    At this point most libertarians that don't support Rand won't. Most of them don't even vote anyways. They are virtually useless and a lot of them encompass the liberty whiners. If we can't get Rand, I don't expect any1 better. In fact, I don't know a single person better.
    Last edited by Vanguard101; 07-30-2014 at 01:49 AM.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    Not every1 can see what we see. When I was 15, I was already skeptical of Rand.

    At this point most libertarians that don't support Rand won't. Most of them don't even vote anyways. They are virtually useless and a lot of them encompass the liberty whiners. If we can't get Rand, I don't expect any1 better. In fact, I don't know a single person better.
    At this point, Rand Paul putting his foot in his mouth on frequent occasion will cause more and more to become annoyed. A couple years, you might be surprised at the final show of support.

    But instead of working to correct the issues "we'll" just bury our heads, and write off the absurdity and incongruity in his message/approach/beliefs. The last hope of no hope and you think his half-assed words are going to appease anyone that matters?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    The last hope of no hope and you think his half-assed words are going to appease anyone that matters?
    The system is not congruent and is part conspiracy and part ideology promotion. I think it's the best chance.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Scheurer is apparently not as smart as I thought he was.
    Or maybe he is. When Rand's 2016 opponents try to hurt him with GOP primary voters by claiming "he's no different than his crazy old dad," being able to point to things like this will be politically helpful.

    Or course, if Scheuer's being sincere here, that would be a disappointment.
    “Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?” - Oxenstiern

    Violence will not save us. Let us love one another, for love is from God.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    At this point, Rand Paul putting his foot in his mouth on frequent occasion will cause more and more to become annoyed. A couple years, you might be surprised at the final show of support.

    But instead of working to correct the issues "we'll" just bury our heads, and write off the absurdity and incongruity in his message/approach/beliefs. The last hope of no hope and you think his half-assed words are going to appease anyone that matters?
    Since libertarians are a minority, his finals support probably wouldn't be that bad anyways. He can't really correct the issues. It's either he is more blunt and loses to appease people or he is less blunt and somehow portrays himself as a neocon



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  16. #73
    Imagine there's a guy you think is good on some things but wrong on the most important thing. You are a blunt, sincere individual who doesn't mince words. You have a blog. Would you be very critical of that person on the most important thing? Would you expect others who don't think it's the most important thing to be annoyed?

    Let Michael be Michael, let Rand be Rand.
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by nayjevin View Post
    Imagine there's a guy you think is good on some things but wrong on the most important thing. You are a blunt, sincere individual who doesn't mince words. You have a blog. Would you be very critical of that person on the most important thing? Would you expect others who don't think it's the most important thing to be annoyed?

    Let Michael be Michael, let Rand be Rand.
    that
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  18. #75
    Well, I guess Scheuer won't be getting that Secretary of State position. :P
    Rand Paul 2016
    Justin Amash 2024
    Thomas Massie 2032

    Check out Matthew Vines' Reformation Project!

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoPaul View Post
    Well, I guess Scheuer won't be getting that Secretary of State position. :P
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    At this point, Rand Paul putting his foot in his mouth on frequent occasion will cause more and more to become annoyed. A couple years, you might be surprised at the final show of support.
    What you might be perceiving as "putting his foot in his mouth" might actually be a high calculated and strategic rhetorical maneuver. Not saying it always is, but consider the possibility...
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    What you might be perceiving as "putting his foot in his mouth" might actually be a high calculated and strategic rhetorical maneuver. Not saying it always is, but consider the possibility...
    i am...this why i'm still engaged. For now.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    Not every1 can see what we see. When I was 15, I was already skeptical of Rand.



    At this point most libertarians that don't support Rand won't. Most of them don't even vote anyways. They are virtually useless and a lot of them encompass the liberty whiners. If we can't get Rand, I don't expect any1 better. In fact, I don't know a single person better.
    Justin Amash

    Thomas Massie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    What you might be perceiving as "putting his foot in his mouth" might actually be a high calculated and strategic rhetorical maneuver. Not saying it always is, but consider the possibility...
    It may be, but the thing is, he's not going to just magically improve when he gets into the White House. What you see is what you are going to get, unless the Presidency corrupts him (which I think is a realistic possibility, considering how badly he seems to want it.) Look, I don't doubt that Rand may personally believe that Ron is right on the issues, but it doesn't actually matter. As President, he isn't actually going to bring all the troops home and end all foreign interventions.

    I'm bored at this point. Mind you, not hostile, just bored. I'd like it if Rand won. But I don't think Rand won is actually going to solve our country's significant problems the way Ron winning would have. Rand would probably make the soft tyranny we now live under a bit more bearable, not take significant steps to eliminate it.

    And honestly, I think Rand might actually be bad in the sense that, I think this government really needs to crumble, and a halfway decent person like Rand in office might prevent that from happening as quickly as it needs to. Rand Paul might be the very thing that is supposed to make certain people complacent.

    I will probably be living in Virginia in 2016. Since I'll be in a swing state, I intend to give Rand my vote in 2016 (If he wins the primary). I'll be a team player here in the hopes that my pessimism is wrong. But, I'm not necessarily thrilled either. And there will be a rhetorical limit beyond which I'm not willing to tolerate. If Rand really is taking complex strategic maneuvers here, he is calculating the possibility of losing people like me into his plan and taking that into account. I trust Rand's intelligence that much. In fact, he may well want to lose the an-caps, they probably "make him look bad". If that's the case, I'll happily stop supporting him.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    If Mr.Scheuer can't see what game Randal is really playing with that bill then he hasn't thought about it too deeply. I'm guessing this is just some showmanship from Mike.
    Rand is a politician who is playing with fire. I support him over any other candidate and I have some hopes for him, but last time I checked, being distrusting of politicians was a good thing.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by LawnWake View Post
    Rand is a politician who is playing with fire. I support him over any other candidate and I have some hopes for him, but last time I checked, being distrusting of politicians was a good thing.
    The bold is correct, and I think he's at least singed himself a couple times.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by satchelmcqueen View Post
    same here for me. im waiting to see if hes just "playing their game" until he wins it all.
    The only reason I voted for Ron Paul is PRECISELY because he didn't play the game, and he changed the nation because of it. Rand is obviously different, but I don't expect Rand to get nearly the support from the Liberty movement as Ron for exactly this reason. We don't want a politician, we want a statesman and someone who will tell the truth AT ALL COSTS.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    It may be, but the thing is, he's not going to just magically improve when he gets into the White House. What you see is what you are going to get, unless the Presidency corrupts him (which I think is a realistic possibility, considering how badly he seems to want it.) Look, I don't doubt that Rand may personally believe that Ron is right on the issues, but it doesn't actually matter. As President, he isn't actually going to bring all the troops home and end all foreign interventions.
    You might be surprised. I think there is a good chance he will..


    I know that there is ZERO chance that Jeb Bush or Christie or Hillary will do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I'm bored at this point. Mind you, not hostile, just bored. I'd like it if Rand won. But I don't think Rand won is actually going to solve our country's significant problems the way Ron winning would have. Rand would probably make the soft tyranny we now live under a bit more bearable, not take significant steps to eliminate it.
    First off a President can only do so much. I mean they can do a lot, but really the Congress is where most of the decisions are made.

    Secondly, if you're bored, then get active on the state and local level. Take over your city council or your county commission or state legislature.



    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    And honestly, I think Rand might actually be bad in the sense that, I think this government really needs to crumble, and a halfway decent person like Rand in office might prevent that from happening as quickly as it needs to. Rand Paul might be the very thing that is supposed to make certain people complacent.
    That is absurd.... wishing havoc on the entire nation instead of working to reverse course?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    The only reason I voted for Ron Paul is PRECISELY because he didn't play the game
    And he didn't get elected either... there is a reason for that...
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You might be surprised. I think there is a good chance he will..
    I'm not holding my breath, but I hope you are right.

    I know that there is ZERO chance that Jeb Bush or Christie or Hillary will do so.
    Understood. And if your point that you are trying to prove is that Rand is better than those guys, I don't see why you are wasting your time because that's fairly obvious. There's a reason I say I'm somewhat bored with Rand rather than being downright repulsed like I am with the guys above, or even Ted Cruz.
    First off a President can only do so much. I mean they can do a lot, but really the Congress is where most of the decisions are made.
    True in many respects.
    Secondly, if you're bored, then get active on the state and local level. Take over your city council or your county commission or state legislature.
    And how would I go about doing those things?

    That is absurd.... wishing havoc on the entire nation instead of working to reverse course?
    I don't think our government crumbling would lead to "havoc." But ,i think things likely do have to get worse before they get better, considering how deep the hole is.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    And he didn't get elected either... there is a reason for that...
    Sooooo.... your prescription for success is for a candidate to 'play the game' and pander to whatever base(s) he/she needs to win and to even not be entirely truthful at times, just so long as the ends justify the means and they get elected, then hope they do what YOU think the MIGHT do?

    No thanks.

    I'd rather support someone who speaks truth to power and puts a premium on personal integrity. Did not the Ron Paul campaigns change the freaking world?? Do you remember how fired up the country was when he was out there TELLING IT LIKE IT IS? Rand may fare better in the polls by 'playing their game' but he will never fire up the support his father did because of it. No one will be standing in freezing temps holding "RAND PAUL CURED MY APATHY" signs. No one will be making youtube vids of Rand that inspire millions of activists. No one will be making movies and documentaries about the "Rand Paul r3v0lution"....

    Catch my drift?

    Don't misunderstand.... if he's the nominee, I will vote for Rand. I'm just making a point.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    If Rand Paul fails miserably with his run for President, can we agree to give up on national politics and work towards alternative solutions? (e.g., secession..)

    Just throwing that out there, again.
    Would you be interested in the idea of turning a town or county libertarian?

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by LawnWake View Post
    Rand is a politician who is playing with fire. I support him over any other candidate and I have some hopes for him, but last time I checked, being distrusting of politicians was a good thing.
    I happen to support the "stand with Israel" legislation. I don't want foreign aid going to hamas.



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  34. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    And he didn't get elected either... there is a reason for that...
    Because he didn't want it (stated multiple times), and the campaign. There, two reasons.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Rand's words are there.
    Yeah. What I find interesting is that the the actual words and phrases that have inflamed many people were spoken by the interviewer in the questions, and not by Rand. Rand's answers were much more "moderate", and tended to change the subject away from the actual meaning of the questions.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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