Face facts, U.S. democracy-crusading causes wars

[ONUV]

This week, some of the world is engulfed in bloodshed that is playing out against the background music of Woodrow Wilson’s howling madness. Wilson’s “Making the World Safe for Democracy” symphony and “Self-Determination” nocturne have now been playing for almost 100 years, and few works by other men have caused more human costs or more unnecessary wars. Wilson’s demented mind produced a product which, rather than spreading democracy as promised, has simply spread war. The equation is simple: spreading democracy causes war. This morning, for example:

–1.) Rival militias are fighting and killing each other near the international airport in Tripoli in another episode in the unrelenting economic and human disaster that has been caused by the Obama/McCain-led, NATO campaign to install democracy in Libya.

–2.) A Malaysian airliner and its passengers lie scattered across fields in eastern Ukraine in another racheting-up of the war started in that country by the ignorant but arrogant interventionists and the democracy crusaders of the EU and the Obama administration. This situation, of course, has led the Neocons to call for “stronger action” against Russia to protect what does not exist, Ukrainian democracy, and to stand up to that non-threat to the United States, Vladimir Putin and Russia. (NB: The culprit here is Malaysian Air — and any other airline — that flies passengers over war zones to save money on fuel.)

–3.) Iraq is disintegrating into sectarian civil war as the very predictable consequence of the Republican/Neocon removal of Saddam Hussein and a decade of democracy building in that country. We can look forward to the same situation after we and the West Europeans help the great democracy-loving Syrian resistance — better entitled the mujahedin — destroy Asaad. Then, using Western-provided weapons and supplies, it will turn on and destroy the Jordanian regime.

–4.) The war in Gaza burns right along as always with Israelis and Palestinians merrily murdering each other. This war has gone on for 60-plus years because Washington and its European allies keep intervening, first in favor of Israel, then in favor of the Palestine, then back to Israel, and so on and so on. Now is the time to stand back and let the two sides fight it out to the finish. Democracy in Israel or Palestine is worthless to American interests. Let the better war-fighter win, and then let America have no ties to the winner.

All of these wars and near-wars have been brought to us by the contemporary American and European believers in Woodrow Wilson’s academic theorizing and ignorance of of the world outside the American South. Wilson also was a profound bigot who was as cock-sure as today’s most ardent racists in Western capitals that he could and should force Slavs, Africans, Latinos, and Arabs to behave as he wanted them to behave, either through eloquent persuasion or gunboats and the Marines’ bayoneted rifles.

http://non-intervention.com/1277/fac...an-neutrality/

[Ronin Truth]

"War is the health of the state."

[DFF]

Of course they cause war.

That's the whole point.

[FindLiberty]

It's all driven by selfish motives coming from
industry and government. They all seek to
gain more and more goober-power / control.

Its for the greater good (so they tell themselves).

Psychopaths have others fight and weaken each other
to make it easier to install new military bases and
those political sock-puppets necessary to facilitate
the taking of their natural resources. Fiat funded
rebuilding of war torn infrastructure is nice too!

Some die, some lies get told. It's a winner's game!

...not ever about fighting to spread democracy. Really...

[ibaghdadi]

It's probably true that they create wars, but it's incorrect to lay the full blame on the United States.

Speaking as an Arab (and someone whose life has been directly affected), let me say that many of the post-2011 problems we faced were Arab-made and not US-made. The main dynamic is the absence of US pressure on anyone, versus the rise of a counter-revolutionary axis spearheaded by Saudi Arabia that has used its money to fight off the Arab Spring, but leading instead to weakening democracy movements and the rise of Jihadists.

By fighting the Arab Spring, Saudi Arabia created a Jihadist Disneyland. And Obama enabled it through his inaction just like Bush enabled it a decade ago through his direct action.

[CaptUSA]

It's probably true that they create wars, but it's incorrect to lay the full blame on the United States.

Speaking as an Arab (and someone whose life has been directly affected), let me say that many of the post-2011 problems we faced were Arab-made and not US-made. The main dynamic is the absence of US pressure on anyone, versus the rise of a counter-revolutionary axis spearheaded by Saudi Arabia that has used its money to fight off the Arab Spring, but leading instead to weakening democracy movements and the rise of Jihadists.

By fighting the Arab Spring, Saudi Arabia created a Jihadist Disneyland. And Obama enabled it through his inaction just like Bush enabled it a decade ago through his direct action.

I agree with this. Sure the US involvement creates death and war; but it would happen without US involvement, too. You see, this is the trick that the interventionists use against those who would like us to refrain from involvement. They say without our involvement, the world would be a dangerous and chaotic place. Well, guess what? They're right! It would be. But that certainly doesn't mean our involvement makes it any less dangerous or chaotic!

Let's face it, because of our past interventions, the US is going to draw the ire of the families of the dead in one form or another. We're damned if we do, or damned if we don't. So the real question is how much of our wealth our we going to expend to get the same results?

This is something non-interventionists need to understand and accept. If we fail to intervene in these skirmishes, we make ourselves a target. Because those whose families are being killed because of our lack of intervention, will do whatever they can to get us back over there. And unfortunately, these are the ones who we have been aiding with training and weapons.

We've gotten ourselves into a pretty sticky mess. The only way out of it is to stop. Stop intervening. Stop over-reacting. Stop wasting money trying to create a favorable outcome. And stop getting drawn into the affairs of other nations.

[ibaghdadi]

This is something non-interventionists need to understand and accept. If we fail to intervene in these skirmishes, we make ourselves a target. Because those whose families are being killed because of our lack of intervention, will do whatever they can to get us back over there. And unfortunately, these are the ones who we have been aiding with training and weapons.

This is something I've always wanted to speak to someone about. Morally, would abruptly ending intervention make up for decades of destroying a region through intervention?

So if the US screws up a country for four or five decades through intervention (overtly, by direct action, or covertly, by supporting tyrants), can it just realize one day that hey, this is bad, sorry for destroying your country and all, so we're going to pull out. Good luck with the army that we funded for decades and the jihadists that our policies helped create and the depleted uranium shells and the destroyed infrastructure and the lost generations.

Don't you feel there's something wrong here? I'm talking on a purely moral level - don't you think the US would "owe" something to a country it has destroyed over two or three generations? Again, I'm talking "morally", not even getting to the fact that the US is broke and can't help much even if it wanted to...

[DamianTV]

If I recall correctly, the term "Making the world safe for Democracy" was coined by Edward Bernays who is basically the father of Propoganda. At least its close cousin...

[pcosmar]

By fighting the Arab Spring, Saudi Arabia created a Jihadist Disneyland.

You say that like they are not in full partnership.

Royal lines are Royal lines. It is a family business.

[Cleaner44]

This is something I've always wanted to speak to someone about. Morally, would abruptly ending intervention make up for decades of destroying a region through intervention?

So if the US screws up a country for four or five decades through intervention (overtly, by direct action, or covertly, by supporting tyrants), can it just realize one day that hey, this is bad, sorry for destroying your country and all, so we're going to pull out. Good luck with the army that we funded for decades and the jihadists that our policies helped create and the depleted uranium shells and the destroyed infrastructure and the lost generations.

Don't you feel there's something wrong here? I'm talking on a purely moral level - don't you think the US would "owe" something to a country it has destroyed over two or three generations? Again, I'm talking "morally", not even getting to the fact that the US is broke and can't help much even if it wanted to...

There is no making things right. The damage done by the U.S. government can't be undone.

What we owe these nations is a chance to heal and freedom from intervention. Nothing will make up for the pain, the damage, the destruction that has been created, the best we can hope for is a better future.

Let the people of the region and of the world determine their own futures. What we owe them is a dedication to not assist dictators and tyrants. That alone would be a huge positive.

[acptulsa]

..

'The only real diplomacy ever performed by a diplomat is in deceiving their own people after their dumbness has got them into a war.'--Will Rogers

[Brian4Liberty]

Don't you feel there's something wrong here? I'm talking on a purely moral level - don't you think the US would "owe" something to a country it has destroyed over two or three generations? Again, I'm talking "morally", not even getting to the fact that the US is broke and can't help much even if it wanted to...

That's the exact argument the neoconservatives used when pushing for nation building.

[Brian4Liberty]

And Obama enabled it through his inaction just like Bush enabled it a decade ago through his direct action.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't? I'll go with non-intervention and save the money if it's going to be screwed up no matter what we do.

[CaptUSA]

So if the US screws up a country for four or five decades through intervention (overtly, by direct action, or covertly, by supporting tyrants), can it just realize one day that hey, this is bad, sorry for destroying your country and all, so we're going to pull out. Good luck with the army that we funded for decades and the jihadists that our policies helped create and the depleted uranium shells and the destroyed infrastructure and the lost generations.

Don't you feel there's something wrong here? I'm talking on a purely moral level - don't you think the US would "owe" something to a country it has destroyed over two or three generations? Again, I'm talking "morally", not even getting to the fact that the US is broke and can't help much even if it wanted to...

Unfortunately, there's no undoing the damage we've done. The best they can hope for is for us to stop doing more damage. As far as "owing" something, you then get into the question of who we owe it to? And there is no way to give something to these countries that wouldn't be used against some segment of the population. That would just continue the circle.

It's a harsh reality. And it's one we've brought upon ourselves from constant interference and oil-lust. Morally, it would be justified to try to make amends, but I don't see how that can possibly be done without further exacerbating the problem.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Amazing how China has no problem building relations and trading with other countries... they don't need to; subvert, overthrow, bomb, invade, destroy, and steal...

The greatest con job perpetrated by the money masters/psychopaths with their puppets in government, all for profit and power. Take away the profits and power in their conquests and it all ends.

But it will get worse as long as people swallow the crafted bag of lies and deceit.

[DamianTV]

Also, Illusion of Democracy and Freedom.

The public has voted to end these endless wars. Those who profit vote to keep them going. Some votes are not equal to others apparently.

[pcosmar]

If I recall correctly, the term "Making the world safe for Democracy" was coined by Edward Bernays who is basically the father of Propoganda. At least its close cousin...

The CIAs early Operation was to overthrow a democracy.

And that has been repeated several times since.

Propaganda indeed. and successful propaganda.

[dannno]

Don't you feel there's something wrong here? I'm talking on a purely moral level - don't you think the US would "owe" something to a country it has destroyed over two or three generations? Again, I'm talking "morally", not even getting to the fact that the US is broke and can't help much even if it wanted to...

Not the ones who were robbed of their income to fight the wars in the first place and were against them.

I don't trust the government to heal anything.

I would maybe be willing to hand over some war criminals and their bank accounts.