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It looks like several small things. Terrorizing was a term that was used. There is a good chance they went to jail because they were crazy people that wanted to move to a small town to take it over and that highly pissed off the locals. So the locals made sure the people went to jail. I suspect many people will gladly break the law to stop outsiders from taking over a town that they consider to be their town, especially in a tightly nit small community where new movers are generally vetted and not trusted by the locals anyway.
Even in Grafton, NH where the movers have explained over and over again that the new movers aren't in anyway trying to take over (because they aren't), there have been issues. For example, several people were investigated for voter fraud (which obviously they didn't commit) to waste time and scare people. It wasted a lot of time. There was also an effort to create zoning laws but that too failed.
Now imaging if the new movers with the expressed goal of taking over move to a small country town with a shrinking population and the new movers like to get drunk, frequently open carry and have what many people consider extreme ideas... Even if race wasn't an issue, it will likely still get many in the town and near-by towns to organize against them.
Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.
Pericles was trying to set up a Free Community out in West Texas a while back. Was anyone involved? Pericles, could you give us the detailed story on how things played out with that? I think it would be very useful.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...unity-Project/
The overreaching government of the community they moved to is a common and expected human reaction. They should have known they were be hated and people what try to do what it takes to control them via the government and other methods. You just don't try to take people over. it causes nothing but problems.
Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.
Last edited by PRB; 07-29-2014 at 12:36 PM.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
The FSP has never been about taking over. In fact, idea that it could be about that is absurd. How could 20,000 people take over 1.3+ million people? It a fight, all 20,000 would be killed. In the voting booth, there were over 700,000 voters in NH in 2008. How many will there be in 2020? Plus, the law in NH currently (thanks to a recent judicial ruling) anyone that is able to vote in any of the 50 states also able to vote in NH. All you have to do is be in NH on election day and swear that you intend to move to NH. You can change your mind the next day. But anyway, the FSP isn't even out just trying to recruit people that are allowed to vote, even. Heck, some free staters don't vote or very rarely vote anyone.
The whole idea of the Free State Project is for liberty activists to do what they want here. Be it media creation, jury rights, charity to help poor people so they have to rely so much on government, peace religious practices, prepping and so on. Here is the Statement of Intent that free staters agree to, if there is any confusion.
So the FSP is about trying to find 20,000 people to sign up and move to NH. Once the people move to NH, it's up to them on what they do. The FSP is about PorcFest and Liberty Forum and other things to get the 20,000 signers. It isn't a political organization. In is a charity organization designed to help find 20,000 liberty people to improve their lives by moving to the best state with the highest quality of life in the nation. If the FSP had anything to do with what you said, the IRS wouldn't consider it a charity.I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the State of New Hampshire within 5 years after 20,000 Participants have signed up. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of individuals' life, liberty, and property.
Last edited by Keith and stuff; 07-29-2014 at 12:58 PM.
Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.
It also should not be neglected to mention that Jonestown was not a mass suicide, but a mass murder. Half the population were children. They were killed first, and many of the grown-ups were forced to take the poison, and some were shot. Some simply gave up hope when all of the children died and decided it would be best to end their lives as well. It was a sad story and has absolutely nothing to do with liberty.
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If anyone is interesting to talking to people that having actually moved to a small town for more liberty. If you want to find out what it is like. To find out the positives and the negatives... there is good news for you!
The place where something somewhat like this is currently happening is about to have it's annual camping festival designed to introduce people to the town. Welcome to the seventh annual Burning Porcupine Festival.
2014 Burning Porcupine Festival: August 4–10 in Grafton, NH
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-in-Grafton-NH
Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.
I've read the whole thread. Seems to me that people like Keith and Helmuth have quite the same approach, at least in the context of the rest of the world. There are some differences in approach and--for lack of a better word--marketing, but differences like that often lead to a stronger whole.
Seems to me that the real difference is liberty thinking versus the prejudiced attacks, as expressed by the knuckleheadedness of RPF's two resident trolls, 56K and PRB. They'll compare you to the most extreme examples just for emotional effect. The extreme in the media often does the same thing in this now smaller world. This is where education comes into play to combat simple prejudice.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
2014 Burning Porcupine Festival: August 4–10 in Grafton, NH
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-in-Grafton-NH
I've been before but am not sure if I can make it this year. I recommend it. Some of the same folks attend Liberty Forum. For a couple years in a row, they have had a Grafton (or even 2) sites in the main area of PorcFest that usually 2 to 4 Grafton folks are sitting out with facts on Grafton, the listing of properties for sale, details on Burning Porcupine and stuff like that.
Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.
Thanks, Keith. If that changes and you are able to make it, let us know. We could send you with a list a questions! Do you do videos?
A few comments based on experience-
First, is determining the objective of the project (A) is this a prepper retreat, so in addition to political and economic freedom, a self sustaining community or collection of habitations is the goal (B) creating an environment with the minimal amount of government at any level and not trying to accomplish anything other that showing that freedom works (C) some other goal. This affects to a great extent what you will need in either capital or fellow travelers on the journey.
You will get a great deal of interest in what you are doing and any number of people who will tell you how to do it better and not do any of the work involved. Ignore them.
The prepper retreat or group approach needs an environment where property is in parcels for individual purchase or rent. The more gradual shift toward economic freedom requires capital - starting a business that can be operated in that location, which will provide a living for fellow travelers with cause the population shift which results in votes for eliminating local regulation - which is why such a project only has a reasonable success in states that feature local home rule to a great extent.
Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.
Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.
Thank you so much, Pericles! I really appreciate your wisdom.
Would you say that your project was/is a success? What do you think was the key to its success?
I am definitely seeking objective (B). It is a very good idea, as you say, to delineate the objective clearly from the beginning, as these objectives you list are very different. For me, give me (B).
Bump!
Here's another town for sale:
The town used as the Hunger Games set for District 12.
It has to be approached like any other project or business venture. Just posting on the NET, everybody who wants liberty move to X will get another FSP as a result. Raise capital, form corp., and do it. Recapitalize corp. from sales of property / shares to fund expansion.
Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.
Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.
Pericles is the only one who makes sense.You can't make a community based on philosophical ideas only.You need jobs,you need a location and you have to watch out the crowd you attract.Making a community in some Alaskan wilderness without any roads or rail makes no sense unless you can digest wood or are completely ok living in 19 century conditions .
The region where you settle has to either have natural resources or at least be near trading routes. Who comes into the city is also very important because you can bet your ass that there will be informants and provocateurs so attracting normal people is a must.
That's one of the main reasons the FSP selected NH instead of WY or MT. There just isn't a large or diverse enough job market in either of those states to attract a broad spectrum of liberty activists. The point has even been proven since copycat groups selected WY and MT. MT had maybe a dozen movers. WY had at several dozen. NH has had well over 1,000 movers and keeps going strong.
Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.
I like to think that I make sense as well. I am less ambitious than Pericles (or differently-ambitious). My proposed project is not to build a new community (as his is). I have confused the issue by following up on and posting a couple towns for sale, but really I am just thinking we could move a sufficient number of people to a low-population jurisdiction and once there join with the locals to move the town or county closer to liberty.
For instance, moving 1,000 people to any of the counties posted by TonySutton. Or to Grafton, NH. Or to some other low-population jurisdiction. We wouldn't have to build a town from scratch. It would just be a simple matter of moving in, in a normal way. Some additional housing would likely be needed to accomodate the population increase. This could be provided by, for instance, mobile homes.
New Hampshire, Montana, and Wyoming, all have approximately equal labor participation rates. Thus, proportional to their populations, they all have equally large job markets. NH has three times as many jobs as Wyoming, and three times as many people competing to get those jobs.
People in NH have the option of commuting two hours every day to Boston, a much larger job market. However, people in Wyoming have the option of commuting one hour every day to Salt Lake, or one hour and fifteen minutes every day to Denver. So at least for NH vs. WY, it's a wash.
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