Study: Socialists Are Cheaters

[Lucille]

Hardly surprising. The whole ideology is immoral.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/22/so...says-new-study

"The longer individuals were exposed to socialism, the more likely they were to cheat on our task," according to a new study, "The (True) Legacy of Two Really Existing Economic Systems," from Duke University and the University of Munich. The team of researchers concluded this after working with 259 participants from Berlin who grew up on opposite sides of the infamous wall.

When playing a dice game that could earn them €6 ($8), subjects originally from the East, which was for four decades under socialist rule, were more likely than their market economy counterparts in West to lie about how they fared.
[...]
The results were that "East Germans cheated twice as much as West Germans overall," leaving the researchers to conclude the "the political regime of socialism has a lasting impact on citizens' basic morality."

The paper discusses some potentially related reasons for the outcome, such as the fact that

socialist systems have been characterized by extensive scarcity, which ultimately led to the collapse of the German Democratic Republic (GDR) in East Germany. In many instances, socialism pressured or forced people to work around official laws. For instance, in East Germany stealing a load of building materials in order to trade it for a television set might have been the only way for a driver of gravel loads to connect to the outside world. Moreover, socialist systems have been characterized by a high degree of infiltration by the intelligence apparatus.

The Duke-Munich team positions their work against a 2013 study, "Of Morals, Markets and Mice," which concluded "that market economies decay morals" but "compared decisions in bilateral and multilateral market settings to individual decisions rather than an alternative economic allocation mechanism." The new research finds that "political and economic regimes such as socialism might have an even more detrimental effect on individuals’ behavior."

In another aspect of the study, the researchers note that "we did not observe an overall difference between East and West Germans in pro-social behavior," such as donating to hospitals, the capitalist-influenced demographic does, in fact, donate marginally more.

[Brian4Liberty]

Interesting. Recent Chinese immigrants have a "different" way of viewing lying, cheating and theft. Is it cultural, or just a result of communism and socialism? Did socialism effect the culture?

[RPfan1992]

most socialists that I have seen seem to be narcissistic.

[yinzer38]

Interesting. Recent Chinese immigrants have a "different" way of viewing lying, cheating and theft. Is it cultural, or just a result of communism and socialism? Did socialism effect the culture?

Blame communism. After the communists came to power in 1949 they spent decades trying to erase 5000+ years of traditional culture from mainland China. Generations of people were brainwashed into destroying anything associated with the traditional "old culture" (family heirlooms, genealogy books, longstanding temples, anything remotely associated with Confucius or religion) and denouncing traditional authority figures (family members, teachers) in "struggle sessions". Schools were closed during the Cultural Revolution to a whole generation of young people. To "modernize" China the written language, which initially started from scratchings on turtle shells and had evolved for thousands of years into a written script suitable for the artist's calligraphy brush, was overhauled and "simplified" and now most of the whole world follows suit in discarding traditional characters in favor of simplified characters.

Indeed, after Mao died much of the economic system he promoted died as well. Today communism as an ideology rings empty on the mainland, so the communist leadership has taken to promoting nationalism instead, fabricating all sorts of newly constructed buildings all over China in the premodern architectural style and passing them off to tourists as authentic representations of the traditional China they destroyed over 50 years ago. The same goes for their so-called rediscovered love for Confucius and the "Confucius Institutes" that they have spammed all around the world to further the interests of their party. However, when you have destroyed something so important (traditional culture/values/thinking) as systematically as they have done, how can you ever hope for its return the way it was previously?

IMHO if you want to experience "real" Chinese culture in societies where traditional Chinese culture/values/thinking never died and still remain truly alive, don't go to mainland China. Visit Taiwan, Hong Kong, and some overseas Chinese communities instead.

[acptulsa]

most socialists that I have seen seem to be narcissistic.

Wouldn't you have to be to decide the world owes you food, housing and a cell phone..?

[Brian4Liberty]

IMHO if you want to experience "real" Chinese culture in societies where traditional Chinese culture/values/thinking never died and still remain truly alive, don't go to mainland China. Visit Taiwan, Hong Kong, and some overseas Chinese communities instead.

Yeah, a friend of mine who is an immigrant from Taiwan does not have these "socialist" attitudes about property.

To be more specific, had a roommate at one time from mainland, and he and his friends and family had what I would call a "different" attitude. For instance, people might "borrow" things, sometimes to return them, sometimes not. Food and drinks? Well, those didn't get returned. Shoes and clothes? They might reappear, might not. Occasional pots, silverware? Gone. High end stereo? Ruined by a guest who decided to rewire it. Was walking into a grocery store the other day, and an older Chinese man was walking out with a big bag full of meat, and he was chased down by security. Guess he forgot to pay. In work places, things like food often disappear from shared refrigerators, even items removed from labeled lunch containers. When caught, the "eaters" are often from socialist China. Americans are generally naive about cultural norms, especially the more subtle differences. Is sharing theft? Kind of depends on the situation and perspective.

[fisharmor]

Also, this:

http://mic.com/articles/90963/the-10...tes-in-america

There is a strong correlation between elevated state spending and corruption in all but one of the states (South Dakota is the only exception).

[Lucille]

Yeah, a friend of mine who is an immigrant from Taiwan does not have these "socialist" attitudes about property.

To be more specific, had a roommate at one time from mainland, and he and his friends and family had what I would call a "different" attitude. For instance, people might "borrow" things, sometimes to return them, sometimes not. Food and drinks? Well, those didn't get returned. Shoes and clothes? They might reappear, might not. Occasional pots, silverware? Gone. High end stereo? Ruined by a guest who decided to rewire it. Was walking into a grocery store the other day, and an older Chinese man was walking out with a big bag full of meat, and he was chased down by security. Guess he forgot to pay. In work places, things like food often disappear from shared refrigerators, even items removed from labeled lunch containers. When caught, the "eaters" are often from socialist China. Americans are generally naive about cultural norms, especially the more subtle differences. Is sharing theft? Kind of depends on the situation and perspective.

When I was researching Chile, I think it was Cobin who said neighbors just come over and "borrow" your stuff, and you might not see it again for years if ever.

I have written on other occasions that most Chileans like to be liars, cheats and thieves, but none wants to be known as such or to be caught red handed (pillado).

[DamianTV]

Socialism in a nutshell.

A teacher says he is going to grade the entire class with some sort of Same Grade For Everyone. At first, most people participate, but a few people slack off. The grade is around a B.

The next test, those who didnt put forth any effort still dont. A few more figure a B is good enough and join those who dont put forth any effort. The grade drops to a C.

Those who put forth effort last time start to wonder why they are holding everyone else up and quit putting forth any effort as well. No one contributes due to the leeches. Grade drops to an F.

The remainder of the class, no one puts forth any effort because no one else puts forth any effort. Grade stays at an F.

(totally paraphrased, if someone has a link to the original form of the story, please post)

---

Socialism is the great lie where everyone lives at the expense of everyone else.

---

Social(ist) Security is a Ponzi Scheme that follows this pattern exactly.

At first, there is one person collecting their SS benefits and 25 people paying in.

People retire or go on SS.

The ratio drops from 25 to 1 down to 5 to 1. People work harder, more is taken from them, and quality of SS benefits declines

More people retire or go on SS.

Ratio continues to drop. Down to 2 workers to 1 collector.

Ponzi scheme limited by total number of people in population. Many stop trying at all.

Ponzi schemes work at first, fueled only by the concept of unlimited unsustatinable growth. The last people to join in are the ones that hold up everyone else. When they realize they will NEVER get back what they put into it, they quit putting into it. Its driven by high many things, retirement, real unemployment, inflation, and the way our Govt runs things, very complex and very confusing. Its not that much different from trying to Cheat where one person gets ahead at the expense of everyone else. But instead of putting forth effort into contributing, the only effort that is put in is to take from everyone else. It is a form of Financial Warfare that is predatory on the people that are part of the Socialist group, by whatever label they may take.

[heavenlyboy34]

Interesting OP. It doesn't help the crowd that tries to blame "The People" for what the (supposedly representative) government does. As I've been saying for many, many moons, the fish rots from the head down.

[heavenlyboy34]

Socialism in a nutshell.

A teacher says he is going to grade the entire class with some sort of Same Grade For Everyone. At first, most people participate, but a few people slack off. The grade is around a B.

The next test, those who didnt put forth any effort still dont. A few more figure a B is good enough and join those who dont put forth any effort. The grade drops to a C.

Those who put forth effort last time start to wonder why they are holding everyone else up and quit putting forth any effort as well. No one contributes due to the leeches. Grade drops to an F.

The remainder of the class, no one puts forth any effort because no one else puts forth any effort. Grade stays at an F.

(totally paraphrased, if someone has a link to the original form of the story, please post)

---

Socialism is the great lie where everyone lives at the expense of everyone else.

---

Social(ist) Security is a Ponzi Scheme that follows this pattern exactly.

At first, there is one person collecting their SS benefits and 25 people paying in.

People retire or go on SS.

The ratio drops from 25 to 1 down to 5 to 1. People work harder, more is taken from them, and quality of SS benefits declines

More people retire or go on SS.

Ratio continues to drop. Down to 2 workers to 1 collector.

Ponzi scheme limited by total number of people in population. Many stop trying at all.

Ponzi schemes work at first, fueled only by the concept of unlimited unsustatinable growth. The last people to join in are the ones that hold up everyone else. When they realize they will NEVER get back what they put into it, they quit putting into it. Its driven by high many things, retirement, real unemployment, inflation, and the way our Govt runs things, very complex and very confusing. Its not that much different from trying to Cheat where one person gets ahead at the expense of everyone else. But instead of putting forth effort into contributing, the only effort that is put in is to take from everyone else. It is a form of Financial Warfare that is predatory on the people that are part of the Socialist group, by whatever label they may take.

That is an insult to Mr Ponzi and Ponzi Schemes!

[DamianTV]

That is an insult to Mr Ponzi and Ponzi Schemes!

Sorry Mr Ponzi, my bad!

Ooh, I could call it a Bernie Madoff scam! No, wait, Uncle Bernie got the idea from the US Govt to begin with...