View Poll Results: Yes or no, good cop?

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  • Yes

    5 62.50%
  • No

    3 37.50%
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Thread: Good cop?

  1. #1

    Good cop?

    What do you think about what he said? I like the part where he basically said, if you are going to take away someone's right, will you be the first one in the door for the raid?

    Cameras are great and all for holding cops to accountability, but ultimately, I think accountability for cops comes when they think like this guy.

    I am not proud of the way he sees his service, but I also don't disparage him for being duped by the system. There is a very tiny fraction of people within this awakening that can say they didn't have to be reprogrammed to see the truth and awaken. I personally credit Ron Paul for being that beacon in my life that led me safely to the shore.

    I want to see more military and cops like this one. You can tell he is awakening from some nasty nightmares, and i can see the truth thru his eyes and words here.

    Last edited by newbitech; 07-21-2014 at 11:13 PM.



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  3. #2
    I don't think I've ever used the words "awesome" and "cop" in the same sentence before, but dang....

    AWESOME COP!!!

    -t

  4. #3
    I won't go so far as awesome.

    If/when this dude renounces the evil bastards he continues to fight for and apologizes to the Americans whose doors he has helped kick in I might be inclined to bestow the moniker hopeful on him.

    As long as he continues to suck the governments tit he is the problem not the solution no matter how well he speaks.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I won't go so far as awesome.

    If/when this dude renounces the evil bastards he continues to fight for and apologizes to the Americans whose doors he has helped kick in I might be inclined to bestow the moniker hopeful on him.

    As long as he continues to suck the governments tit he is the problem not the solution no matter how well he speaks.
    He's on the inside working for us. He's got mil and cop creds. The idiot politicians pay attention to him. This vid needs to go viral along with contact info for all the politicians and how they voted. This guy is like a fifth columnist, perfectly placed for influence and VERY VOCAL! Like I said

    *AWESOME*!!!

    It's got to take guts to do that. Work within the beast. And if they try to fire him, whoa instant national media...

    -t

  6. #5
    By his own admission he's out there kicking in doors for tax-dollars.

    I'm not going to adulate over words.

  7. #6
    No, he is being ASKED ORDERED to kick in doors, and he has a HUGE $#@!ING PROBLEM WITH IT!

    -t

  8. #7
    Just watched it again. He at no point said he was a member of SWAT or participated in those kind of no knock raids. De did say that he wanted any legislature voting for this kind of unconstitutional BS to agree to be first in the door of every raid...

    -t

  9. #8
    I didn't watch the video, but I'll say this:

    I've been saying for a long time that there are cops who have good intentions, and he's probably one of those (based on what has been said.) I wouldn't mind having this type of person as a neighbor. But at the end of the day, he should find another job. As long as people continue to obey the orders of the police state, we'll have one.

    Now, if this guy actually doesn't enforce any victimless crimes laws than I could say he's a good cop. Until then he's still a bad cop with good intentions.

    That doesn't mean I don't respect the guy, however. I Just respect him for speaking out, not for his career choice.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    That doesn't mean I don't respect the guy, however. I Just respect him for speaking out, not for his career choice.
    Befehl ist Befehl

    Principle IV

    Main article: Superior Orders
    Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

    This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".
    Previous to the time of the Nuremberg Trials, this excuse was known in common parlance as "Superior Orders". After the prominent, high profile event of the Nuremberg Trials, that excuse is now referred to by many as "Nuremberg Defense". In recent times, a third term, "lawful orders" has become common parlance for some people. All three terms are in use today, and they all have slightly different nuances of meaning, depending on the context in which they are used.
    Nuremberg Principle IV is legally supported by the jurisprudence found in certain articles in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deal indirectly with conscientious objection. It is also supported by the principles found in paragraph 171 of the Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status which was issued by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Those principles deal with the conditions under which conscientious objectors can apply for refugee status in another country if they face persecution in their own country for refusing to participate in an illegal war.

    When he turns his guns on and arrests fellow officers that are upholding unconstitutional law with force of arms: Then actions speak louder than words. Until then I applaud his politics while condemning his involvement as a LEO.

    Nice speech homie... but your still Stasi Stormtrooper

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NY_SAFE_Act
    Allows law enforcement officials to pre-emptively seize one's firearms without a warrant or court order when there is probable cause the individual is mentally unstable or intends to use the weapons to commit a crime.
    slippery slope much?
    Last edited by presence; 07-22-2014 at 07:41 AM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  12. #10
    He wants to know if the legislators would be willing to in the door of gun owners' homes first, but the question is, is he?

    After all, he is the one that is going to be asked to do it. If he believes so strongly that it's wrong, then is he going to stop enforcing these laws, or is he going to throw his hands up and pretend there's nothing he can do because he needs a job?

    Keep in mind, though, gun laws aren't the only unjust laws there are. Does he have any issues with handing out speeding tickets so the state can act justified in stealing peoples' money, all in the name of public safety? If he's willing to do any of those things, then I don't care what his position is on anything else. Violating people's rights is part of a cop's job description.

    If he cares about rights, then he'll quit his long career of doing the government's bidding. Even after seeing through the ruse of national defense in the military and being disappointed in his master's true objectives, he goes back to work for the same corrupt organization enforcing their laws and oppressing the American people.

    No, he's not a good cop. He's a very confused individual who probably couldn't find a job and decided he could inwardly justify becoming a cop just to have an income.
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    He's on the inside working for us. He's got mil and cop creds. The idiot politicians pay attention to him. This vid needs to go viral along with contact info for all the politicians and how they voted. This guy is like a fifth columnist, perfectly placed for influence and VERY VOCAL! Like I said

    *AWESOME*!!!

    It's got to take guts to do that. Work within the beast. And if they try to fire him, whoa instant national media...

    -t
    Are you serious? He's nothing but a hired thug to them. The "idiot politicians" don't give a $#@! about him anymore than they do us. He's a replaceable, expendable resource to them. He has ZERO influence.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    No, he is being ASKED ORDERED to kick in doors, and he has a HUGE $#@!ING PROBLEM WITH IT!

    -t
    He can have a problem with it as much as he wants, but is he willing to walk the walk and walk on off the force?
    I'm an adventurer, writer and bitcoin market analyst.

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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    No, he is being ASKED ORDERED to kick in doors, and he has a HUGE $#@!ING PROBLEM WITH IT!

    -t
    What video did you watch?

    The one I just watched said that if the legislators wanted to enforce the safe act, they should be the first through a homeowner's door.

    By saying this, he's admitting:
    1) That there are circumstances where it's appropriate for cops to kick in your door.
    2) That he's fundamentally ok with that.

    He didn't say "If you guys want doors kicked in at all you should do it", he only said if they wanted to enforce this particular law they should kick the doors in themselves.

    Bad cop, bad cop, bad cop.

    There is no good cop. Ever. This bad cop simply does a really good job making it sound like we could live under a system where guys like him are allowed to kick in whatever doors they want and beat up whomoever they want.

    For every cop like this, there are about 100,000 more that have no moral problem with kicking in your door for whatever reason he's given.

    Yes, sir, you did wash your friend's blood out of a Humvee so that you could come home and watch our rights get destroyed.
    You danced up right to that line, where you'd realize that it's your job - that you get paid - to be the rights destroyer, and then walked away from it.

    I'm not giving him a pass... if anything, I'm holding him MORE accountable. All the pieces are there in his head, and he's abjectly refusing to put the round peg in the round hole.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    ...

    As long as he continues to suck the governments tit he is the problem not the solution no matter how well he speaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I didn't watch the video, but I'll say this:

    ... But at the end of the day, he should find another job. As long as people continue to obey the orders of the police state, we'll have one
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    ...
    When he turns his guns on and arrests fellow officers that are upholding unconstitutional law with force of arms: Then actions speak louder than words. Until then I applaud his politics while condemning his involvement as a LEO.

    Nice speech homie... but your still Stasi Stormtrooper...
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    ...

    If he cares about rights, then he'll quit his long career of doing the government's bidding. Even after seeing through the ruse of national defense in the military and being disappointed in his master's true objectives, he goes back to work for the same corrupt organization enforcing their laws and oppressing the American people...
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    ...

    Bad cop, bad cop, bad cop.

    There is no good cop. Ever...
    So, what all of you are saying is either
    A) There is no good cop. Ever. or
    B) If there are any good cops... you want them to quit their job to ensure... There are no good cops.

    That's brilliant! Instead of trying to increase the number of good (constitutional minded) cops you guys want to make sure every cop is bad. Good luck with that.

    Do you really think that our society is suddenly or magically going to eliminate the need for cops? That's right, I said the NEED for cops. Don't get me wrong, I see that there are way too many "bad" cops... hell, I would even say many are evil... but if you think that purging all of the "good" cops from the system is the answer... well, I submit your logic is flawed. That is why I choose to work with and support Oath Keepers.

    And for those of you who say "Never call the cops" or "Never talk to the police"... you don't really mean NEVER. I know you don't. Unless you mean to tell me that if you witnessed a crime, lets say a murder... you are walking down the street, you see a hit and run where a vehicle runs over two kids walking on the sidewalk... and you see the drivers face, know what type of vehicle s/he is driving and you get the license plate number and you are the only person around... are you telling me you will NOT call for help? And when you do call for help, are you telling me you will NOT speak with the cops?

    Some of you are dreaming of some fantasy where cops are not needed... sounds great to me, but it ain't going to happen in this century... so I'll keep working on encouraging police and military to obey their oath.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I didn't watch the video, but I'll say this:

    I've been saying for a long time that there are cops who have good intentions, and he's probably one of those (based on what has been said.) I wouldn't mind having this type of person as a neighbor. But at the end of the day, he should find another job. As long as people continue to obey the orders of the police state, we'll have one.

    Now, if this guy actually doesn't enforce any victimless crimes laws than I could say he's a good cop. Until then he's still a bad cop with good intentions.

    That doesn't mean I don't respect the guy, however. I Just respect him for speaking out, not for his career choice.
    OK... I don't get the whole victimless crime argument. By that rationale, a person could get so hammered drunk and start driving (no victim yet), speed up to 110mph on the road (no victim yet) and slam into a minivan killing a family of 5... now we have some victims. I, for one, have no problem making it illegal for people to drink and drive. Pull them over, if they are drunk, send their ass to jail. BOOM, victimless crime.

    What are your thoughts?
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPatriot View Post
    So, what all of you are saying is either
    A) There is no good cop. Ever. or
    B) If there are any good cops... you want them to quit their job to ensure... There are no good cops.

    That's brilliant! Instead of trying to increase the number of good (constitutional minded) cops you guys want to make sure every cop is bad. Good luck with that.

    Do you really think that our society is suddenly or magically going to eliminate the need for cops? That's right, I said the NEED for cops. Don't get me wrong, I see that there are way too many "bad" cops... hell, I would even say many are evil... but if you think that purging all of the "good" cops from the system is the answer... well, I submit your logic is flawed. That is why I choose to work with and support Oath Keepers.

    And for those of you who say "Never call the cops" or "Never talk to the police"... you don't really mean NEVER. I know you don't. Unless you mean to tell me that if you witnessed a crime, lets say a murder... you are walking down the street, you see a hit and run where a vehicle runs over two kids walking on the sidewalk... and you see the drivers face, know what type of vehicle s/he is driving and you get the license plate number and you are the only person around... are you telling me you will NOT call for help? And when you do call for help, are you telling me you will NOT speak with the cops?

    Some of you are dreaming of some fantasy where cops are not needed... sounds great to me, but it ain't going to happen in this century... so I'll keep working on encouraging police and military to obey their oath.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope



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  20. #17
    Since voting to take away someone's rights is totally different than being asked to enforce it, I want you to consider this.If you support the safe act so whole heartedly, are you willing to stand with the law enforcement members who lead from the front to enforcement?
    What I mean by that is if a constituent of yours feels so alienated by this law and the manner in which it was passed and they refuse to comply with it,
    are you willing to stack up on their front door and go in first? I bet if a clause was in this bill that required you, the elected leadership, our elected leaders
    to go in the door first, I bet you would not be so steadfast.
    Lets parse this out.

    Yes voting to take to take away someone's rights is totally different than being asked to enforce it. He is making the distinction between the legal decision and what gives that decision authority. I think this is an extremely valid point. He is completely rejecting the notion that enforcement action that he would be asked to undertake is simply a matter of following orders. An unenforceable law is not a law. He recognizes that and rightly points out that the legislators decisions carry no weight without people to forcefully impose those decisions on others in the context of taking away rights.

    He then asks if those legislators are willing to back up their decisions with actions. This is a great question, similar to Rand Paul asking if a senator or congressman is willing to send their own sons or daughters to back up their war declarations in the Middle East.

    He then talks about a scenario where a constituent would practice civil disobedience, and again asks if the legislators are willing to lead the assault that would be required to make their decision have any meaning at all.

    He then challenges the legislators position as leaders. The answer of course is no. These legislators would not be going in to enforce their decisions, and therefor the law would not be valid.



    Listening to his voice and demeanor as he makes his comments, it is quite clear to me that he is rejecting the use of force in supporting unconstitutional laws. I would not be surprised if he became more and more jaded over time and eventually quit his position. In the mean time, he's on the correct side of the argument for the correct reasons.

    The fact that at the time he was a cop and ex military, doesn't change anything for me. He is speaking the truth. He is standing up to his chain of command and calling them out to their faces on their bull$#@! law.

    Tell me you wouldn't want to see more cops coming forward and doing this. Tell me you don't like hearing a military combat vet taking constitutional arguments to court. Tell me you don't like hearing an LEO expressing his complete and utter displeasure with the law makers that would send him off to put his life on the line to take away someone elses rights.

    Maybe there are no good cops, but there are good people and they come from all backgrounds. This guy is a good person. He might still be confused and he might still be connecting dots, but he's definitely down the rabbit hole. If he decided to stay in his position for as long as he could rejecting orders that would violate someones rights, I would support him.

    THIS is the kind of person that will ultimately get rid of bad cops. Regardless of where he is at right now, he is a good cop in my eyes because he is on the path to standing up for what is right, even in the face of people who will cry "for the children". That takes courage to tell someone to their face that his rights are inalienable, and trump the dead.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPatriot View Post
    So, what all of you are saying is either
    A) There is no good cop. Ever. or
    B) If there are any good cops... you want them to quit their job to ensure... There are no good cops.
    Option A is the case.
    Option B doesn't make sense. There are no good cops. There might be people who are deranged enough to think their job does some net benefit to society.
    They are wrong.
    Being a cop is a net detriment to society.
    If none of them were beating homeless guys to death and/or covering each others' asses when someone says boo to it, if all they did was hand out revenue generating fines for operating a motor vehicle in the exact same manner as the other 10,000 people who passed before you, it would still be a net detriment to society.

    Instead of trying to increase the number of good (constitutional minded) cops you guys want to make sure every cop is bad.
    They are already all bad.
    Even Stewart Rhodes.
    You wear the uniform, that makes you a bad guy.

    Do you really think that our society is suddenly or magically going to eliminate the need for cops? That's right, I said the NEED for cops.
    I do not personally need guys to blindly follow their orders to issue me safe driving fines, attempt to ruin my life for having three beers, try to take my children away when they walk around the block by themselves, drive by three times while I'm roasting in a broken down car on the interstate (but then pick me up when I try to walk for help), or any of the other "services" they've provided me in the last 40 years.
    And this is all the stuff that the "good" cops agree to.
    I don't need to get beaten to a pulp to recognize $#@!ty service when I see it.

    Don't get me wrong, I see that there are way too many "bad" cops... hell, I would even say many are evil... but if you think that purging all of the "good" cops from the system is the answer... well, I submit your logic is flawed.
    No, assuming there are good cops is the flawed logic.
    If good cops existed, we wouldn't get 4-5 stories every day here about the evil ones, would we?
    Every $#@!ing day????? And you have the stones to come here and say there are actually good ones?

    And for those of you who say "Never call the cops" or "Never talk to the police"... you don't really mean NEVER. I know you don't. Unless you mean to tell me that if you witnessed a crime, lets say a murder... you are walking down the street, you see a hit and run where a vehicle runs over two kids walking on the sidewalk... and you see the drivers face, know what type of vehicle s/he is driving and you get the license plate number and you are the only person around... are you telling me you will NOT call for help? And when you do call for help, are you telling me you will NOT speak with the cops?
    Yeah, I got news for you.
    If you witnessed a murder and didn't call the cops, you stand a very good chance of becoming suspect #1.
    Of course I would call the cops - because the alternative for me is emptying my life savings trying (and most likely failing) to stay out of a cage where I'll get forcibly sodomized for the rest of my life.

    Great $#@!ing alternative there, guy.

    Some of you are dreaming of some fantasy where cops are not needed... sounds great to me, but it ain't going to happen in this century...
    Stick around, read some more articles.
    You'll eventually come to the same conclusion we all did: that YOU are the reason this isn't going to happen.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  22. #19

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    "No"
    care to elaborate? Did you watch the video? Any thoughts on what this person had to say?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I didn't watch the video, but I'll say this:

    I've been saying for a long time that there are cops who have good intentions, and he's probably one of those (based on what has been said.) I wouldn't mind having this type of person as a neighbor. But at the end of the day, he should find another job. As long as people continue to obey the orders of the police state, we'll have one.

    Now, if this guy actually doesn't enforce any victimless crimes laws than I could say he's a good cop. Until then he's still a bad cop with good intentions.

    That doesn't mean I don't respect the guy, however. I Just respect him for speaking out, not for his career choice.
    You really should watch it, he told the politicians to kick down the doors themselves, basically called them all cowards.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPatriot View Post
    So, what all of you are saying is either
    A) There is no good cop. Ever. or
    B) If there are any good cops... you want them to quit their job to ensure... There are no good cops.

    That's brilliant! Instead of trying to increase the number of good (constitutional minded) cops you guys want to make sure every cop is bad. Good luck with that.
    Yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    They are already all bad.
    Even Stewart Rhodes.
    You wear the uniform, that makes you a bad guy.
    Name some RPfers who have done more good for the cause of Liberty than Stewart Rhodes, besides yourself. Unless you are a bad guy too

    How about this, anyone who has done less than Stewart is a bad guy, I am guilty of that....
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    What video did you watch?

    The one I just watched said that if the legislators wanted to enforce the safe act, they should be the first through a homeowner's door.

    By saying this, he's admitting:
    1) That there are circumstances where it's appropriate for cops to kick in your door.
    2) That he's fundamentally ok with that.
    I think there actually are circumstances (however absurdly rare) where that might be justified.

    For instance, let's say there's probable cause that a person in question is a serial killer, he stands with his machine gun pointed at the door all day, and he has hostages. Would it be unjustified to break into his house and arrest him?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm as against the SWAT raids that occur today just as much as you are. And I think its basically if not blatantly impossible to be a good cop in the US right now. And I'm an anarcho-capitalist, I'd ultimately like to see all of these things privatized. But, I don't have an issue with punishing actual crimes such as murder.

    He didn't say "If you guys want doors kicked in at all you should do it", he only said if they wanted to enforce this particular law they should kick the doors in themselves.
    I think the point was that you should think very carefully about when its worthwhile to kick down someone's door. Now, my line might be more extreme than his, but I think the point is there. Do you want to break into a gun owners home and take the chance that he might shoot and kill you? I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    You really should watch it, he told the politicians to kick down the doors themselves, basically called them all cowards.
    I'll watch it. I didn't this morning because I had to leave and didn't have time. Will watch now.

    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    OK... I don't get the whole victimless crime argument. By that rationale, a person could get so hammered drunk and start driving (no victim yet), speed up to 110mph on the road (no victim yet) and slam into a minivan killing a family of 5... now we have some victims. I, for one, have no problem making it illegal for people to drink and drive. Pull them over, if they are drunk, send their ass to jail. BOOM, victimless crime.

    What are your thoughts?
    I don't think just being drunk should be something the cops should even know about, barring other considerations.

    As for driving fast...

    If we were talking about a private road, I would say the owners can make whatever rules they want. But on a government road I think its an NAP violation to take any action where no aggression is happening.

    Now, is driving 110 MPH an aggressive (reckless) act? I don't think it intrinsically is. Although the fastest I've ever personally seen someone drive safely is 95MPH. But I don't think 110 would be impossible. That said, I could easily envision cases where driving 110 could be reckless.

    Let me put it this way. You don't have the right to create danger for the other cars. But just speeding or driving drunk doesn't automatically mean you're endangering the other drivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPatriot View Post
    So, what all of you are saying is either
    A) There is no good cop. Ever. or
    B) If there are any good cops... you want them to quit their job to ensure... There are no good cops.

    That's brilliant! Instead of trying to increase the number of good (constitutional minded) cops you guys want to make sure every cop is bad. Good luck with that.

    Do you really think that our society is suddenly or magically going to eliminate the need for cops? That's right, I said the NEED for cops. Don't get me wrong, I see that there are way too many "bad" cops... hell, I would even say many are evil... but if you think that purging all of the "good" cops from the system is the answer... well, I submit your logic is flawed. That is why I choose to work with and support Oath Keepers.

    And for those of you who say "Never call the cops" or "Never talk to the police"... you don't really mean NEVER. I know you don't. Unless you mean to tell me that if you witnessed a crime, lets say a murder... you are walking down the street, you see a hit and run where a vehicle runs over two kids walking on the sidewalk... and you see the drivers face, know what type of vehicle s/he is driving and you get the license plate number and you are the only person around... are you telling me you will NOT call for help? And when you do call for help, are you telling me you will NOT speak with the cops?

    Some of you are dreaming of some fantasy where cops are not needed... sounds great to me, but it ain't going to happen in this century... so I'll keep working on encouraging police and military to obey their oath.
    If you judge cops by specific actions, you'd find some good ones. I'm not opposed to a cop arresting a murderer (I see no intrinsic reason somebody else couldn't do it, but you get the point.) I am opposed to that same cop arresting a pot user, no matter how much he insists that its his job or that without him the murderer would go free and so forth.

    Police create the need for police. I think we could function without police if police weren't there to prevent normal people from dealing with crime. That said, due to specialization of labor I think some form of peace keepers would be hired on the free market. The fact that such a thing would develop on the free market doesn't justify cops who enforce victimless crimes laws now.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Option A is the case.
    Option B doesn't make sense. There are no good cops. There might be people who are deranged enough to think their job does some net benefit to society.
    They are wrong.
    I've read enough of the crap you write on this subject to know you are a broken record. And that there is zero chance of you changing your mind. You have had a bad experience with cops... and now you KNOW, for a FACT, that ALL cops are bad. You are not even smart enough to concede a small percentage are good. LOL! Dude, time to wake up! That is statistically impossible, and you sound foolish in your rants. And if your goal is to eliminate the need for police you are going to have to stop sounding so... emotionally illogical with your arguments.

    Being a cop is a net detriment to society.
    What do you mean NET? If you really believed your own crap... you would not have used the word net. By using the word net you acknowledge that some are good, others are bad... mostly bad in your mind, hence a NET detriment. You FAIL.


    If none of them were beating homeless guys to death and/or covering each others' asses when someone says boo to it, if all they did was hand out revenue generating fines for operating a motor vehicle in the exact same manner as the other 10,000 people who passed before you, it would still be a net detriment to society.
    Net??? It seems you are blinded by your hatred.

    They are already all bad.
    Even Stewart Rhodes.
    You wear the uniform, that makes you a bad guy.
    Stewart is not a cop and has never been one... (once again you demonstrate your ignorance on this topic). However, Stewart is smart enough to realize that not all cops are bad, and many need to be reminded of their oath to the constitution. Hence, Oath Keepers. And OK is making a difference, we are educating military and police, and we will continue to make a difference. You keep going along with your little rants... hope that makes you feel better.

    Sounds to me like you think the constitution is a rag, which makes me wonder why people who have no respect for the constitution... why would they support Ron Paul? Why would they hang out in a forum dedicated to a man that dedicated his life to obeying his oath?


    I do not personally need guys to blindly follow their orders to issue me safe driving fines, attempt to ruin my life for having three beers, try to take my children away when they walk around the block by themselves, drive by three times while I'm roasting in a broken down car on the interstate (but then pick me up when I try to walk for help), or any of the other "services" they've provided me in the last 40 years.
    There it is... it's all about you. 'Poor me, cops are mean to me so that makes all cops bad. Boo hoo'.

    And this is all the stuff that the "good" cops agree to.
    I don't need to get beaten to a pulp to recognize $#@!ty service when I see it.
    I don't advocate any cop beating anyone for anything. But it sounds like you probably have an attitude problem when dealing with cops... that should not matter, but guess what? It does!

    No, assuming there are good cops is the flawed logic.
    If good cops existed, we wouldn't get 4-5 stories every day here about the evil ones, would we?
    Every $#@!ing day????? And you have the stones to come here and say there are actually good ones?
    C'mon man, do I really need to explain this to you? What is news worthy of a cop doing his (good) job? But if you think four of five stories in a day proves bad cops how about I show you four or five stories about good cops? Will that change your mind? Of course it wont, because cops are mean to you.

    Yeah, I got news for you.
    If you witnessed a murder and didn't call the cops, you stand a very good chance of becoming suspect #1.
    No $#@!? Of course I would be the number one suspect, because... why would I NOT report a murder I witnessed (unless I did it).

    Of course I would call the cops - because the alternative for me is emptying my life savings trying (and most likely failing) to stay out of a cage where I'll get forcibly sodomized for the rest of my life.
    You are not thinking this through and you sound like a frightened little man. And I suppose you would not call the cops if that were your little girls... and you could prove you didn't do it... you would just let it go...

    Great $#@!ing alternative there, guy.
    My alternative is to educate military and police to obey their oath to the constitution. Your alternative is to encourage good people from becoming cops because all cops are bad? Ok, you do your thing... I'll do mine. Hope things work out for you.

    Stick around, read some more articles.
    You'll eventually come to the same conclusion we all did: that YOU are the reason this isn't going to happen.
    I've been around, every bit as long as you. I just didn't sign up until '09. And I've come to the conclusion that some people like to bitch and cry about $#@!... and others do something about it. I think we both know what category we each fit into. So you go on with your rants... and I will do my best to ignore you.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPatriot View Post
    So, what all of you are saying is either
    A) There is no good cop. Ever. or
    First, thank you for posting. As to the quoted section here, yes, that would be exactly what I am saying. Indisputably so.

    Where is their money derived from? How is their salary afforded? Who is going to pay their medical? Their pensions? For the air conditioning they use in the summertime? For the petrol they use in their cars?

    It's quite simple. You will. Everyone will. Whether they want to pay for it or not, they will pay for it. Do you know why? Because other people that will be paid for by everyone, regardless of the legitimacy, will come arrest, imprison, or murder you. It's quite simple, really. And if the need arises for back up in the midnight raid, they'll call those that never let them down. A quid pro quo relationship, if you will, where the parasitical unproductive collaborate with the equally parasitical and unproductive to rob all of property and give it to whom it does not belong.

    B) If there are any good cops... you want them to quit their job to ensure... There are no good cops.
    Well then quite perhaps the tired good apples mantra would finally cease. But no, it wouldn't. There would still be some who see the kitty cats saved from the trees; the puppy dogs from the road ways. And while if the "good ones" did quit or chose a path more moral (say, anything productive) the level of "bad" within the department may become more centralized, (or more noticeable, rather,) there'd still be the few and far between good deeds that anyone as a human being is capable of, mind you, to distract the masses from the evil they commit. There would still be the many who tell me, ad nauseam, that I just don't know what they encounter. That I should put myself in their shoes. That they do good things but are forced, or ordered, I think they say, and that I should take my grievances up with the equally immoral politicians. As if that would do a lick of goddamn good. How about, no. You quit following orders. It isn't an excuse. It never was an excuse. Go volunteer if you want to help the public when they are in need. Have people legitimately contract your services. Act within the law as an common decent human being, for $#@! sake. But this just sounds radical, I'll be told. "You mean separate castes-- the takers and the taken from-- ought not exist!? Blasphemy!"

    That's brilliant! Instead of trying to increase the number of good (constitutional minded) cops you guys want to make sure every cop is bad. Good luck with that.
    It would more be accurate to say that I'd, and quite a few others, simply would like everyone to be held accountable under the same law. A shiny badge doesn't grant extra rights. And Constitutional minded is quite funny [if weren't so unfunny] (perhaps that's why they are just [Constitutionally] "minded" and not simply "Constitutional"?). Something to think about, anyways. What is definition of police? What is the history of the police? What is their current track record? What has the Supreme Court said on the matter of liability? How are they funded? What if I don't want to fund them? What sorts of 'laws' are they enforcing?

    Do you really think that our society is suddenly or magically going to eliminate the need for cops? That's right, I said the NEED for cops.
    Well, I would disagree with your premise. Do you need to be policed? Fined? Taxed? Robbed? Thrown in a cage? What need might I have for them? You know their pensions are probably going to bankrupt your city, right?

    Don't get me wrong, I see that there are way too many "bad" cops... hell, I would even say many are evil... but if you think that purging all of the "good" cops from the system is the answer... well, I submit your logic is flawed. That is why I choose to work with and support Oath Keepers.
    We can agree on everything except for the point that the police is an authoritarian concept and ought be abolished. Perhaps you are unsure what that means. It doesn't mean a lack of law or criminals running rampant in the streets (they do that now, mind you [and to be clear, some are held more accountable than others]). I pray to God that some fiscal calamity disbands this band of revenue scalpers. It sounds bad... and forgive me for being frank... but I'd be happier than pigs in $#@! if this police force went on strike for further medical compensation. It would be like..... America. Or something. Rather than some sort of unfunny East German satire.

    And for those of you who say "Never call the cops" or "Never talk to the police"... you don't really mean NEVER. I know you don't.
    Yes, I do. I need a bracelet that forbids them from touching me in the event of emergency. Car wreck? They can leave my mangled body where they find it. I've told them this. We can be cordial, if they come in my place of occupation but aside from that they can $#@! off.

    Unless you mean to tell me that if you witnessed a crime, lets say a murder... you are walking down the street, you see a hit and run where a vehicle runs over two kids walking on the sidewalk... and you see the drivers face, know what type of vehicle s/he is driving and you get the license plate number and you are the only person around... are you telling me you will NOT call for help?
    I would administer first aid and call for an ambulance. Not 911.


    And when you do call for help, are you telling me you will NOT speak with the cops?
    I would not. An intermediary or the family asked me for a notarized statement with the understanding that I will not be testifying? THEY could get one. What they did with it would be their business.

    And it's not as if you don't talk to the police. I'm quite capable of holding a conversation. Considering their profession, lack of ethics, quotas, etc. it's wise not to talk to them. Not to mention they murder people daily (often for the refusal to talk to them). So kind of a catch 22, I suppose. I'd much prefer not to ever talk to them. But it isn't as if when I get pulled over I sit there and say, "I refuse to answer any questions" (as would be my right!). I've dealt with them enough and am educated enough to talk with them. As well as to know that a certain demeanor could well leave me beaten to death on the side of the road. You know they itch for that $#@!, right? Put on their gloves. I can see it in their face when they are just looking for a reason. These are the people you want to have a gun and immunity?

    Some of you are dreaming of some fantasy where cops are not needed... sounds great to me, but it ain't going to happen in this century... so I'll keep working on encouraging police and military to obey their oath.
    It ain't gonna happen this century. You ever tell a cop you know your rights? Haha. It's not like $#@!in' crosses to vampires. Only, if only, Kelly Thomas had a pocket Constitution!

    And I'm not trying to be discouraging but goddamn, this is serious. Don't insult people with that nonsense. What do you think, crack smoking addicts ought be given an annual salary? Never mind you don't want to pay for it. So what makes you think it is legitimate that I be forced to pay for these other lowlife, subsidized, leeches?
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 07-22-2014 at 03:48 PM.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    You really should watch it, he told the politicians to kick down the doors themselves, basically called them all cowards.
    He would know, amirite?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  32. #28
    I'd call the cops if I saw that someone was murdered. I don't have a problem with police going after a murderer, though I doubt they'd do it.

    Its most of the other things cops do that I have a problem with.

    BTW: I watched the video, and here are my thoughts:

    I think its unfortunate that he thinks the war in Iraq was for his freedom, though its possible that he doesn't actually believe that. He may have been using it as a rhetorical device (ie. "I risked my life for freedom so I've earned the right to say that freedom is more important than dead children" or something like that) in which case I'd be OK with it. I also hope he'll have the guts to refuse to enforce the order when it inevitably comes.

    I'd need more information before I'd say he's a "good cop", and I'm sure he fails that test. But I think he's a well-meaning individual, and a textbook example of why I disagree with Chris Cantwell.

  33. #29
    By the way, I have no problem with liberty lovers using the Veteran card for the cause of liberty. Use every trick in the book, just like the establishment does.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  34. #30
    The best way to reign in this out of control tyranny, is to fill it's officialdom with people who care about the Constitution. You don't know if this guy is there to push against the Beast or not. None of us know if he's been ordered to do really heinous stuff yet or not. Maybe he's in in armed robbery and just horrified at the stuff he sees happening over at vice. Maybe he's been put there to defend an innocent person from being killed by a cop next year. When "even the drunkards and the tax collectors work more to care about the principles" (to paraphrase Christ) of freedom, then it's time for self reflection. Say he's an evil idiot, like so many here charge. When an evil idiot is doing more work, passion, and progress to restore liberty to America than you, then what does that say about you?

    In 2008 we took everyone where they were who had a genuine passion for liberty and a willingness to work to make it happen. Now they have to pass a score of acid tests before we allow them to speak without chastisement or brutal humiliation. The question boils down to do we want to save this country or not? If yes then we will support people of principle in every position of government in the hopes of filling it up and taming the beast. If no, then they will want to empty the beast of every Constitutional resolve and let it fail.

    It will probably fail anyway, but I will seize every opportunity I can to make it right, because when it does fail and people everywhere are forced by tyranny and circumstance in the collapse of civilization to take up arms, do you want to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you didn't really try? When you make a clean headshot on some 20 year old kid charging you and your family with a shotgun just because he is hungry desperate and insane; and then you recognize him from 5 years ago as the kid who used to mow your lawns, how will you look into the mirror and tell yourself you didn't really try to stop it?

    I will seize EVERY legitimate opportunity to make it right, because I abhor and will do everything in my power to prevent what I describe above. It is very likely to come no matter how hard I try, but as God is my witness I will try like hell. When some kid is charging me and my family with a shotgun, and I make my clear front sight tip, I will not hesitate, and my conscience will be clear.

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