God cannot be limited to one religion or spiritual path

[westkyle]

As I do not want to infringe on any copyright I will link to the story.

An elephant driver and his six sons

After the story the Swami continues his experiences related to his time in the SRF. I thought it would be a good story to relate to people of other religions in real life and on this forum.

More information here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

And here I add a toad

Namaste

[Ronin Truth]

God cannot be limited to one religion or spiritual path

Of course not, if he could, would he really be God? I kinda doubt that ANY human has gotten it right yet. We're just no where near smart enough. God is probably just shaking his head about us.

[TER]

The story of the blind men and the elephant might be a good analogy had God not come down and united Himself to man to reveal in the person of Jesus Christ that 'no one knows the Father except the Son, and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him’ (Matthew 11:27). Those grasping at the leg or the trunk apart from the revelation given by Christ to the world may imagine what they are experiencing is ultimate truth (using their own mind's ability to think and their experiential senses to feel), but God is not something the mind can logically deduce in parts or formulate by the power of the human brain, but rather known through revelation made possible only from above. And the revelation given by the One Who was born of a Virgin and raised from the dead is that He alone is the Gate, the Bread, the Life, the Light, the Son of God, equal with the Father and Who will judge the world. Had Christ not come down and done and said these things, than the analogy in the OP might hold water. But since Christ has entered the world and overcome it, the analogy falls apart.

[acptulsa]

The story of the blind men and the elephant might be a good analogy had God not come down and united Himself to man to reveal in the person of Jesus Christ that 'no one knows the Father except the Son, and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him’ (Matthew 11:27). Those grasping at the leg or the trunk apart from the revelation given by Christ to the world may imagine what they are experiencing is ultimate truth (using their own mind's ability to think and their experiential senses to feel), but God is not something the mind can logically deduce in parts or formulate by the power of the human brain, but rather known through revelation made possible only from above. And the revelation given by the One Who was born of a Virgin and raised from the dead is that He alone is the Gate, the Bread, the Life, the Light, the Son of God, equal with the Father and Who will judge the world. Had Christ not come down and done and said these things, than the analogy in the OP might hold water. But since Christ has entered the world and overcome it, the analogy falls apart.

You put me in mind of some of the lyrics of Jesus Christ Superstar.

(Voice of Judas)
Ev'ry time I look at you
I don't understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached a whole nation
Israel in 4 BC
Had no mass communication

Everything was local back then. Spreading the word of anything was a slow and painful process.

And from what I've read of him, if the ancient Israelites had heard of Confucius and taken him to heart, Jesus' task would have been much easier.

[westkyle]

I had a better reply typed out, but I guess something happened.

Anyways, there have been many miracles over the span of human existence. It's hard to say what is true in this historical record or that persons written experiences. I have much love for Jesus and do not deny his godhood. I just cannot limit the almighty in any way; especially in a way that brings discord among humanity.

Namaste.

[Crashland]

I had a better reply typed out, but I guess something happened.

Anyways, there have been many miracles over the span of human existence. It's hard to say what is true in this historical record or that persons written experiences. I have much love for Jesus and do not deny his godhood. I just cannot limit the almighty in any way; especially in a way that brings discord among humanity.

Namaste.

God would be limited by what is true. If Jesus was who Christians claim he was, and if he said that the only way to God is through him, then either God is a liar or otherwise he is limited only to religions which acknowledge that. I do not think your position is particularly "Christian" in the sense of being Biblically grounded. Although I myself would be closer to your position than that of most Christians.

[Dr.3D]

Jesus said it Himself.

NRS John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[TER]

I had a better reply typed out, but I guess something happened.

Anyways, there have been many miracles over the span of human existence. It's hard to say what is true in this historical record or that persons written experiences. I have much love for Jesus and do not deny his godhood. I just cannot limit the almighty in any way; especially in a way that brings discord among humanity.

Namaste.

The thing is, a person who really loves Jesus listens to Him when He says that He is The Lord Who alone saves our human race. This is why the Christian cannot ascribe to your beliefs because that would mean to deny Christ. Christ is merciful, and those who have not known Him but who have done good deeds of mercy and love and lived virtuous lives as He has commanded have the law in their hearts even though they did not know Him to have it on their lips. They will be judged less severely. But those who have heard of Christ, have known what and who He claims to be, yet still deny Him, then He too will deny them before the Father. These are not my teachings, these are the teachings of Jesus Himself. So the Mongolian or Taoist who lived far apart in time and space and knowledge of Christ will have a better excuse than those who live knowing who Christ says He is yet spend their time persecuting Him and denying Him in front of others.

Christ in His kenosis came as a baby born in a cave and was led to the slaughter like a sacrificial lamb to fulfill His life giving ministry on earth, but He will return in glory and power to clean the threshing room floor and separate the wheat from the tares. Those who deny Christ knowing Who He says He is will have no chance at that time because it would be too late and in vain will they call out 'Lord, Lord'. It would have been better they had never heard His name, for at least then they might have an excuse and find greater mercy on that day.

A person who truly loves Jesus listens to His words and obeys them, all of them, not just the moral teachings, even if it means the entire world is against them.

[westkyle]

The thing is, a person who really loves Jesus listens to Him when He says that He is The Lord Who alone saves our human race. This is why the Christian cannot ascribe to your beliefs because that would mean to deny Christ. Christ is merciful, and those who have not known Him but who have done good deeds of mercy and love and lived virtuous lives as He has commanded have the law in their hearts even though they did not know Him to have it on their lips. They will be judged less severely. But those who have heard of Christ, have known what and who He claims to be, yet still deny Him, then He too will deny them before the Father. These are not my teachings, these are the teachings of Jesus Himself. So the Mongolian or Taoist who lived far apart in time and space and knowledge of Christ will have a better excuse than those who live knowing who Christ says He is yet spend their time persecuting Him and denying Him in front of others.

Christ in His kenosis came as a baby born in a cave and was led to the slaughter like a sacrificial lamb to fulfill His life giving ministry on earth, but He will return in glory and power to clean the threshing room floor and separate the wheat from the tares. Those who deny Christ knowing Who He says He is will have no chance at that time because it would be too late and in vain will they call out 'Lord, Lord'. It would have been better they had never heard His name, for at least then they might have an excuse and find greater mercy on that day.

A person who truly loves Jesus listens to His words and obeys them, all of them, not just the moral teachings, even if it means the entire world is against them.

I guess we'll find out one day, eh? Cheers!

[TER]

I guess we'll find out one day, eh? Cheers!

Yes, according to God, we will. May He have mercy on us sinners.

[Jamesiv1]

"Throughout the universe, there are millions of names for God, and all of them are holy."

-- A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, (founder of ISKON)

[Jamesiv1]

Jesus said it Himself.

NRS John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Highly doubtful he actually said this.

[TER]

Highly doubtful he actually said this.

To you maybe, but not to the Church which handed down and sealed this confession with their sweat and blood.

[pcosmar]

God cannot be limited

nuff said.

[erowe1]

"God cannot..."

However that sentence ends, it limits God.

[erowe1]

Highly doubtful he actually said this.

Of course not. Jesus only actually said the parts you like.

[Theocrat]

As I do not want to infringe on any copyright I will link to the story.

An elephant driver and his six sons

After the story the Swami continues his experiences related to his time in the SRF. I thought it would be a good story to relate to people of other religions in real life and on this forum.

More information here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

And here I add a toad

Namaste

"God cannot be limited to one religion or spiritual path," you say? Then why have you limited God with your one conjecture, stating that God cannot be limited to one religion or spiritual path?

[lilymc]

There is only one God.

The idea that there are "many paths" that are all correct makes no sense, because truth does not contradict itself. That's basic logic.

And as someone else already posted (thanks Dr.3D) that is what Jesus said, in John 14:6. That same principle is found throughout the bible.

That said, if there are people who live on a deserted island, and never heard the name of Jesus, they can still attain salvation because we can know God exists by nature, our conscience, and in numerous other ways.

So for that person on the deserted island, their salvation is through faith, in the same way it was before Jesus walked this earth.

[Dr.3D]

And even those who have never heard the name of Jesus, will appear before the judgment seat.

NRS 2 Corinthians 5:10 For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has been done in the body, whether good or evil.

Highly doubtful he actually said this.

Maybe you will be allowed to ask Him when you meet Him.

[bunklocoempire]

God cannot be limited to one religion or spiritual path

Which God/god? For what purpose? If you are not found wanting by your god don't worry about it. My faith and your impending death says you had better sort this out.

If you're talking about my God, my God is perfect and demands an account be settled for an exact price. That account has been settled. Do you have your paid in full stub? Any old receipt found blowing around in the parking lot isn't going to satisfy a perfect God. Why would it? How could it?

Are you going to keep pushing the "paid in full stub" away as a loving God tries to hand it to you? Why make excuses for other receipts that have nothing to do with the price that had to be paid?

Those are all thoughts that have passed or sometimes pass through my own mind. I wouldn't ask another to consider those thoughts if I hadn't experienced those thoughts myself.

Romans 5: 12-17
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.


Romans 5: 12-17 can seem pretty complicated because Paul is anticipating some thoughts/questions his audience, Jews and Gentiles, might be pondering.

For me these passages initially scream "Debt must be satisfied! Here's how! The account is settled! Take the stub! Take it!", but there is sooo much more to be realized by revisiting these passages in the full context of the Bible year after year.

[HVACTech]

God has a sense of humor.

the duckbill platypus is proof enough for me.

[Tywysog Cymru]

Considering that the world's many religions contradict each other they can't all be right.

[westkyle]

Haha. You try to bring people together by using a simple story, but it doesn't go well at all. Come on guys, the point was we can throw away our differences and hold hands and sing kumbaya no matter who or what we see as God.

[Crashland]

Haha. You try to bring people together by using a simple story, but it doesn't go well at all. Come on guys, the point was we can throw away our differences and hold hands and sing kumbaya no matter who or what we see as God.

My impression was that the point of the story was that different religions all have pieces of the truth but none of them have the whole truth, which means that apparent contradictions may not actually be contradictory. I don't think that is the case but I am more than happy to sit together and sing kumbaya if it the alternative is, like, murder.

[Christian Liberty]

"God cannot..."

However that sentence ends, it limits God.

make a rock so heavy even he cannot lift it?

Make a square circle?

[acptulsa]

The thing is, a person who really loves Jesus listens to Him when He says that He is The Lord Who alone saves our human race.

Yes. And He said He was the Way and the Light. And His disciples called him Teacher.

And in Matthew 25 He strongly indicates that listening to Him is the most important part. Which is something He said more than once, in more than one way...

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What's more, other teachers, like Buddha and Confucius for example, have pointed and illuminated pretty much--make that very much--the exact same Way.

I don't think we need to denigrate other teachers who deliver the correct message, and I don't plan myself to deny the Lord's right to move in mysterious ways. I'm not saying I know anything. I'm just saying I'm not judging anyone, especially if they seem to me to find the right path. It isn't my belief that the signpost that points to the Lord's will is a misleading source of direction. I'm much more concerned with people who see Jesus, and believe in Jesus, but refuse to listen to Jesus (they see the signpost but won't read its message) than people who are doing what Jesus taught but not because Jesus taught it (are going the right direction because they read the "wrong", or at least "unapproved", signpost).

[bunklocoempire]

Haha. You try to bring people together by using a simple story, but it doesn't go well at all. Come on guys, the point was we can throw away our differences and hold hands and sing kumbaya no matter who or what we see as God.

Tony Blair, is that you?

[Christian Liberty]

Jesus says he's the way, truth, and the life.

Jesus paid for my sin and rose from the dead.
I'm going to believe him over the random internet poster who says otherwise.

[bunklocoempire]

To elaborate a bit more... (I forgot a winky guy with my Tony Blair quip -sorry)

There are more than a few different beliefs/non-beliefs on this forum -always have been, and liberty brings us together. Through liberty we get as close to a collective peace as we're gonna get.

Don't be messin' with how an individual gets their individual peace. I sure wish more individuals would share their own individual peace methods before suggesting what others do. *cough* westkyle *cough*

Liberty hardly demands we "throw away our differences".

[otherone]

There are more than a few different beliefs/non-beliefs on this forum -always have been, and liberty brings us together. Through liberty we get as close to a collective peace as we're gonna get.

IMO, a truly free society demands a victim for a crime. Historically, the state has claimed God as the victim, and somewhat recently, itself, when no actual victim was harmed.