Malaysia Airlines passenger jet reportedly shot down in Ukraine

[acptulsa]

It is quite clear that it did not blow up at 30,000 ft. It remained intact until impact..

Absolutely. It's also clear that the aircraft had some degree of flyability after it was damaged. If you blow a wing clear off at 30,000 feet, it's not likely that the aircraft will survive the gyrations and the fast dive and remain more or less intact until it hits the ground.

If it hadn't been more or less intact when it struck down, the debris would have been spread over a couple of countries...

[AngryCanadian]

The rebels seized an airfield with SAM missiles capable of shooting down an airliner.

Thats according to the Ukrainian Ministry of Truth and Twitter Sources i would assume

[pcosmar]

The rebels seized an airfield with SAM missiles capable of shooting down an airliner.

Which "rebels"? ISIS did that in Iraq a few times already.

The defense forces would not shoot at a passing airliner,, one (of a great many that pass) and is not landing or stopping nearby.
They are defending from Kiev..

None of any military transports look anything like it.

Now it is possible that it looked like some other plane.. That would mean someone was looking for one plane out of many.

And as yet there is no proof that any missile hit that plane. The plane hit the ground. There is no proof of why.

[pcosmar]

Absolutely. It's also clear that the aircraft had some degree of flyability after it was damaged. If you blow a wing clear off at 30,000 feet, it's not likely that the aircraft will survive the gyrations and the fast dive and remain more or less intact until it hits the ground.

If it hadn't been more or less intact when it struck down, the debris would have been spread over a couple of countries...

One would think that there would have been some kind of smoke trail as it spiraled in. It would have taken several moments to fall.

The only footage I have seen is moments after the crash. and smoke is rising. No sign of any contrails,, or smoke trail.

[luctor-et-emergo]

The only footage I have seen is moments after the crash. and smoke is rising. No sign of any contrails,, or smoke trail.

That is probably because the aircraft was hit when it was traveling at quite high speed, after it was hit and fell to the ground it still kept moving forwards, therefore the place where the aircraft was hit may or may not be anywhere in the shot you have seen. It's just footage of where the aircraft eventually hit the ground.

[devil21]

That is probably because the aircraft was hit when it was traveling at quite high speed, after it was hit and fell to the ground it still kept moving forwards, therefore the place where the aircraft was hit may or may not be anywhere in the shot you have seen. It's just footage of where the aircraft eventually hit the ground.

That could be but the video showing that explosion was obviously edited for public consumption to only show the split second right before the explosion and nothing else. That's a big red flag when you're dealing with the media. Also, if it broke apart in mid air as claimed then the plane's forward momentum would have been greatly reduced from that "quite high speed", especially during such a long descent from 33k feet. Im no physicist but seems to me that by the time the pieces hit the ground they would be falling nearly straight down.

eta: I admit to not keeping up with the current narrative so I could be way off base now. How, or even if, a plane crashed is now in the same category as Saddam's WMD factories.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

it is true that Ukraine and its handlers are desperate to stop the fighting ( without the world crying genocide ) and after following this since the overthrow and seeing what Ukraine and its minions are capable of ( what you wont ever see in the MSM ) it would not surprise me if they and others had a hand in this

[BenIsForRon]

This forum has gone off the deep end.

[pcosmar]

One would think that there would have been some kind of smoke trail as it spiraled in. It would have taken several moments to fall.

The only footage I have seen is moments after the crash. and smoke is rising. No sign of any contrails,, or smoke trail.

Lol..
just got a -rep on this post.

Hating Jews makes you the Nazi.

Someone is deeply confused.

[pcosmar]

That is probably because the aircraft was hit when it was traveling at quite high speed, after it was hit and fell to the ground it still kept moving forwards, therefore the place where the aircraft was hit may or may not be anywhere in the shot you have seen. It's just footage of where the aircraft eventually hit the ground.

There is no footage of that.. in fact,, the missile is total speculation..
And whether it was ground or air launched (if there was even a missile involved at all).

It is speculation.. that plane could have been flown into the ground.. by the pilot, or a lack of one.

All we know is that a plane crashed in Ukraine. Due to unverified means.

[GunnyFreedom]

I am not against there being a conspiracy here; only that the direct conspirators would be largely outside of our space-time realm, ie demonic in nature. I can see a superhuman agency coordinating to create these chains of errors. Remember that at roughly the same time as Sandy Hook, some guy in deep-red China did the exact same thing at almost exactly the same kind of school, but with a sword. Was that coordinated? Probably, but by demons rather than men. "Extreme coincidences" do not generally lead me to 'highly articulated conspiracies,' they usually lead me to "demons." Form an analysis of how complex a temporal conspiracy vs a demonic conspiracy along with a hard look at cui bono; the only real beneficiary here is hell, and given the only reasonable conspirators are apparently operating somewhat outside this realm (communication/coordination), then this too passes Occam's Razor.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

. . .

[coastie]

Link to claim that there was no blood in the bodies? Were they vampires?



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/wo...bris.html?_r=0

Some were burned along with parts of the plane burned and fuel so I am sure it did smell even immediately.

"an acrid smell filled the air".

The people with friends and relatives on the flight will be happy to hear their loved ones are not really dead though.

cool story bro. how about some evidence.

I guess somebody just made up the HIV/AIDS researchers part huh?

You know, you both really can be patronizing $#@!ing jackasses sometimes....



A 3:10 in the video, a man describes how a body he found right outside his house had no blood in it, and noted a smell he couldn't describe. He very well may be describing the smell of formaldehyde, and since most people don't have a clue what that smells like, they wouldn't be able to describe it. He is not the only person there describing these things.



<waits patiently as the goalposts are moved on the definition of evidence...>

[coastie]

Elephant in the room check:

WHO MADE THE RECORDING OF THE "CRASH".....AND WHY?

That shot is too perfect(timing/centering) for some random Dimitri to have whipped out his iPhone and recorded it.

[UWDude]

Thats according to the Ukrainian Ministry of Truth and Twitter Sources i would assume

No, according to both the rebels and the Ukrainian government. It happened at the beginning of the conflict.

[UWDude]

Which "rebels"? ISIS did that in Iraq a few times already.

The defense forces would not shoot at a passing airliner,, one (of a great many that pass) and is not landing or stopping nearby.
They are defending from Kiev..

None of any military transports look anything like it.

Now it is possible that it looked like some other plane.. That would mean someone was looking for one plane out of many.

And as yet there is no proof that any missile hit that plane. The plane hit the ground. There is no proof of why.

This is all true, but the rebels captured those missiles, and probably have Ukrainian defectors trained how to use them. there is no reason to believe the missiles are russian.

[Zippyjuan]

I am sure it impacted the ground.. How and why are still open questions.

It is quite clear that it did not blow up at 30,000 ft. It remained intact until impact..

Is that how the debris was able to spread over 13 square miles?

Large chunks of the Boeing 777 that bore the airline's red, white and blue markings lay strewn over one field. The cockpit and one turbine lay a half-mile apart, and the tail landed six miles away.

It did seem to come down MOSTLY intact but certainly not completely intact. Unless that tail section bounced and rolled for six miles after the plane came down.

[Zippyjuan]

You know, you both really can be patronizing $#@!ing jackasses sometimes....



A 3:10 in the video, a man describes how a body he found right outside his house had no blood in it, and noted a smell he couldn't describe. He very well may be describing the smell of formaldehyde, and since most people don't have a clue what that smells like, they wouldn't be able to describe it. He is not the only person there describing these things.



<waits patiently as the goalposts are moved on the definition of evidence...>

Actually he says there was an odor but does not describe the odor- you are assuming it smelled like formaldehyde. It could have been many things. Jet fuel (which is diesel) or burned things. Or maybe the contents of some of the internal organs of the body were released when the body hit the ground from high altitude. He also said "practically no blood"- not "no blood".

[PRB]

You know, you both really can be patronizing $#@!ing jackasses sometimes....

You damn right I'm going to be a condescending $#@! to conspiracy theorists unless they have evidence.

[PRB]

Elephant in the room check:

WHO MADE THE RECORDING OF THE "CRASH".....AND WHY?

That shot is too perfect(timing/centering) for some random Dimitri to have whipped out his iPhone and recorded it.

just because there's a conspiracy doesn't mean it's the same plane from MH370.

[TheTexan]

My working theory is that Ukrainian air traffic control guided them over Donetsk, and considering that the airspace over Donetsk has been restricted for some time now, the Pro-Russians shot it down assuming it was military.

Why would ATC guide them over Donetsk? And why would a pilot be so stupid to follow those directions? Other airlines have been avoiding that region like the plague for months.

[PRB]

My working theory is that Ukrainian air traffic control guided them over Donetsk, and considering that the airspace over Donetsk has been restricted for some time now, the Pro-Russians shot it down assuming it was military.

Why would ATC guide them over Donetsk? And why would a pilot be so stupid to follow those directions? Other airlines have been avoiding that region like the plague for months.

you haven't identified who benefits. I have. Israel benefits, immediately, and still is. You can keep wasting your time blaming Russians and Ukranians, Israel is getting away with this, they did it right.

[TheTexan]

you haven't identified who benefits. I have. Israel benefits, immediately, and still is. You can keep wasting your time blaming Russians and Ukranians, Israel is getting away with this, they did it right.

Because they got to invade Gaza with impunity due to the distraction? They've been invading Gaza with impunity for many decades...

Unless of course you meant something else entirely, in which case do explain

[PRB]

Because they got to invade Gaza with impunity due to the distraction?

YES.

They've been invading Gaza with impunity for many decades...

not on this scale, not while so many people would be watching, not on Obama's watch.

Unless of course you meant something else entirely, in which case do explain

No, I meant just that.

[Danke]

you haven't identified who benefits. I have. Israel benefits, immediately, and still is. You can keep wasting your time blaming Russians and Ukranians, Israel is getting away with this, they did it right.

You used to have the best troll award medallion, but I'm afraid we will have to ask for it back now.

[dillo]

Would a trained operator of BUK missles know what kind of plane it was? And wasn't netherlands one of Russias closest allies?

[Zippyjuan]

I still think it wasn't deliberate to bring down a civilian airliner. They thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian government plane. The Malaysian jet just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

This whole thing is a NATO put-up job on Russia in retaliation for the establishment of the new BRICS bank.

you haven't identified who benefits. I have. Israel .

Israel is a side issue but related. Israel has spies in NATO and therefore knew this was coming. They've timed their latest offensive against Palestine for now because they know the European/world diplomatic community would already have their hands full with this airplane/Russia bull$#@!.

[coastie]

just because there's a conspiracy doesn't mean it's the same plane from MH370.

Where did I mention anything about MH370? Backing up, where the $#@! have I said anything about a conspiracy in this thread???

You buffoons demanded evidence of someone saying there were bodies with no (or mostly no) blood. I provided a video showing someone saying exactly that. And that was it.

Who's the conspiracy theorist, again?

Idiot.

[AngryCanadian]

This whole thing is a NATO put-up job on Russia in retaliation for the establishment of the new BRICS bank.



Israel is a side issue but related. Israel has spies in NATO and therefore knew this was coming. They've timed their latest offensive against Palestine for now because they know the European/world diplomatic community would already have their hands full with this airplane/Russia bull$#@!.

Yup NATO/EU/America fear the new BRICS bank. Just how they feared Gaddafi's gold as they know that there time of ruling is almost coming to end.