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Thread: Krugman: Obamacare Fails to Fail

  1. #1

    Krugman: Obamacare Fails to Fail

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/op...fail.html?_r=0

    How many Americans know how health reform is going? For that matter, how many people in the news media are following the positive developments?


    I suspect that the answer to the first question is “Not many,” while the answer to the second is “Possibly even fewer,” for reasons I’ll get to later. And if I’m right, it’s a remarkable thing — an immense policy success is improving the lives of millions of Americans, but it’s largely slipping under the radar.


    How is that possible? Think relentless negativity without accountability. The Affordable Care Act has faced nonstop attacks from partisans and right-wing media, with mainstream news also tending to harp on the act’s troubles. Many of the attacks have involved predictions of disaster, none of which have come true. But absence of disaster doesn’t make a compelling headline, and the people who falsely predicted doom just keep coming back with dire new warnings.


    Consider, in particular, the impact of Obamacare on the number of Americans without health insurance. The initial debacle of the federal website produced much glee on the right and many negative reports from the mainstream press as well; at the beginning of 2014, many reports confidently asserted that first-year enrollments would fall far short of White House projections.


    Then came the remarkable late surge in enrollment. Did the pessimists face tough questions about why they got it so wrong? Of course not. Instead, the same people just came out with a mix of conspiracy theories and new predictions of doom. The administration was “cooking the books,” said Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming; people who signed up wouldn’t actually pay their premiums, declared an array of “experts”; more people were losing insurance than gaining it, declared Senator Ted Cruz of Texas.


    But the great majority of those who signed up did indeed pay up, and we now have multiple independent surveys — from Gallup, the Urban Institute and the Commonwealth Fund — all showing a sharp reduction in the number of uninsured Americans since last fall.


    I’ve been seeing some claims on the right that the dramatic reduction in the number of uninsured was caused by economic recovery, not health reform (so now conservatives are praising the Obama economy?). But that’s pretty lame, and also demonstrably wrong.


    For one thing, the decline is too sharp to be explained by what is at best a modest improvement in the employment picture. For another, that Urban Institute survey shows a striking difference between the experience in states that expanded Medicaid — which are also, in general, states that have done their best to make health care reform work — and those that refused to let the federal government cover their poor. Sure enough, the decline in uninsured residents has been three times as large in Medicaid-expansion states as in Medicaid-expansion rejecters. It’s not the economy; it’s the policy, stupid.


    What about the cost? Last year there were many claims about “rate shock” from soaring insurance premiums. But last month the Department of Health and Human Services reported that among those receiving federal subsidies — the great majority of those signing up — the average net premium was only $82 a month.


    Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
    Yes, there are losers from Obamacare. If you’re young, healthy, and affluent enough that you don’t qualify for a subsidy (and don’t get insurance from your employer), your premium probably did rise. And if you’re rich enough to pay the extra taxes that finance those subsidies, you have taken a financial hit. But it’s telling that even reform’s opponents aren’t trying to highlight these stories. Instead, they keep looking for older, sicker, middle-class victims, and keep failing to find them.


    Continue reading the main story
    RECENT COMMENTS


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    Oh, and according to Commonwealth, the overwhelming majority of the newly insured, including 74 percent of Republicans, are satisfied with their coverage.


    You might ask why, if health reform is going so well, it continues to poll badly. It’s crucial, I’d argue, to realize that Obamacare, by design, by and large doesn’t affect Americans who already have good insurance. As a result, many peoples’ views are shaped by the mainly negative coverage in the news media. Still, the latest tracking survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation shows that a rising number of Americans are hearing about reform from family and friends, which means that they’re starting to hear from the program’s beneficiaries.


    And as I suggested earlier, people in the media — especially elite pundits — may be the last to hear the good news, simply because they’re in a socioeconomic bracket in which people generally have good coverage.


    For the less fortunate, however, the Affordable Care Act has already made a big positive difference. The usual suspects will keep crying failure, but the truth is that health reform is — gasp! — working.


    A version of this op-ed appears in print on July 14, 2014, on page A19 of the New York edition with the headline: Obamacare Fails to Fail. Order Reprints|Today's Paper|Subscribe

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by 56ktarget; 07-15-2014 at 10:56 PM.



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  3. #2
    Full of fail, more like it.

    And no, for disclosure sake, I did not/am not reading a Paul Krugman article.

    Here's the guy who thinks war is prosperity. Deficits are good. Dig holes, fill them in, the world will be rich. It's quite frankly retarded.
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  4. #3
    Krugman only believes deficits are "good" during times of economic downturn. How sad that you refuse to read an article that might challenge some of your beliefs.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Krugman only believes deficits are "good" during times of economic downturn. How sad that you refuse to read an article that might challenge some of your beliefs.
    I've read enough of Krugman.

    He is a buffoon.

    War creates prosperity right? What, 3 percent unemployment? Yeah because a large portion was stolen from their family and sent to far away lands to kill, be killed, or tragically ruined.

    Matter of fact, I just recently listened to an excellent interview again. Tom Woods Jr. destroying Krugman before it was cool. How about that.

    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  6. #5

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Mr. Krugman calls ACA a success for the previously uninsured, and a "hit" on the rich, and wonders why it polls badly. What he fails to see is the effect it has on the middle class, the self-employed, and small business owners. Just wait until the employer mandates roll out...
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    It's a propaganda piece without any hard numbers to back it up. Only a total sap or Obama/Krugman fanboy would pay it any attention. According to the Washington Post, all of the politicians are throwing around wildly inflated numbers on Obamacare. And besides, it's failure by design. Even if it "succeeds" it fails. The people signing up for it are those who can't afford it and are being subsidized and who are more likely to be sick. You aren't getting the young, healthy, can afford it crowd signing up that will be needed to carry the poor, sick, old crowd.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-we-dont-know/

    Also premiums have gone up, people are losing their insurance, hospitals are laying off people in mass and a host of other problems are materializing. If anything Obamacare is succeeding in causing failure in the U.S. economy.
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  9. #8
    Is Paul Krugman Leaving Princeton In Quiet Disgrace?
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Quiet-Disgrace

    Where I come from … we do not fear bullies. We despise them. And we do so because we understand that what motivates their bullying is a deep sense of insecurity. Unfortunately for Krugtron the Invincible, his ultimate nightmare has just become a reality. By applying the methods of the historian – by quoting and contextualizing his own published words – I believe I have now made him what he richly deserves to be: a figure of fun, whose predictions (and proscriptions) no one should ever again take seriously.
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  11. #9
    Hahahahaha! So when a program that uses a combination of massive subsidies on the one hand and fierce penalties enforced by armed agents on the other hand actually gets people to sign up it is a marvelous success? Setting the bar pretty low aren't we? Oh, and people who are getting subsidies are not paying alot. But everyone else is paying more than they did before. Another great success!

    Obamacare is doomed. Not because nobody signed up (that was just an amusing and unexpected launch problem) and not because the subsidized class will have high premiums. Those are strawmen. So why is it doomed?

    Healthcare was broken before Obamacare. It was broken because crony-capitalism from top to bottom had driven costs into the stratosphere. So Obamacare comes along and instead of solving the problem, it makes it worse with MORE of the same poison. Obamacare should have been called the cronycapitalist protection act. All it did was make sure that the cronycapitalist's healthcare scam can hold together for a few more years by forcing more people into the insurance pool. Health care costs will continue to soar and break the program. And probably break the economy in the process.

    Obamacare fell on its face in the blocks. It has now sort of picked itself up and is limping around the track and Krugman is declaring victory. Give it a couple laps . . .
    Last edited by Acala; 07-16-2014 at 01:43 PM.
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  12. #10
    I personally have nothing to do with insurance or health care, but now I am required to pay $95 next year. This will go to administer the system, or to some deadbeat patient who demanded that this law be passed. In other words, some bum is too lazy to pay his bills, so he conveniently gets people like me to pay his way.

    I pay my own way medically. I pay the bills of my family. I even pay the many medical bills of my extended family. That is not enough though. There are slobs out there who refuse to pay for their own health care or their family's care. It's not enough that I look after my own, but now I have to look after them. Any man endorsing this plan is a pansy of the highest degree. Man up already.
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Hahahahaha! So when a program that uses a combination of massive subsidies on the one hand and fierce penalties enforced by armed agents on the other hand actually gets people to sign up it is a marvelous success? Setting the bar pretty low aren't we? Oh, and people who are getting subsidies are not paying alot. But everyone else is paying more than they did before. Another great success!

    Obamacare is doomed. Not because nobody signed up (that was just an amusing and unexpected launch problem) and not because the subsidized class will have high premiums. Those are strawmen. So why is it doomed?

    Healthcare was broken before Obamacare. It was broken because crony-capitalism from top to bottom had driven costs into the stratosphere. So Obamacare comes along and instead of solving the problem, it makes it worse with MORE of the same poison. Obamacare should have been called the cronycapitalist protection act. All it did was make sure that the cronycapitalist's healthcare scam can hold together for a few more years by forcing more people into the insurance pool. Health care costs will continue to soar and break the program. And probably break the economy in the process.

    Obamacare fell on its face in the blocks. It has now sort of picked itself up and is limping around the track and Krugman is declaring victory. Give it a couple laps . . .

    Exactly right. Some dip$#@! for a consumer publication says something flowery $#@! and people believe it.
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    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
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    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




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  14. #12
    Here's my thoughts:

    Can I haz my nobley economix prize for bouncing checks paleeze?
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  15. #13
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    56ktarget,

    Again, with all due respect, you are still looking at the issues wrong. The issues isn't a matter if Obamacare is successful or not, it's a matter if there is anything immoral about the law. If Obamacare was wildly successful in providing insurance for millions would it still be a good thing if its success was possible because it took immoral steps to do so? Does the end justify the means?

    Obamacare successes are possible because of the immoral theft used to fund it. This immorally needs to stop. Many are fighting Obamacare because they are victims of this immorality and they want it to end.

    Do you support immoral actions if it benefits you?
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  16. #14
    Taxes does not equal "theft". If nobody paid taxes, then you would be stealing from the govt the goods and services you have used.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Taxes does not equal "theft". If nobody paid taxes, then you would be stealing from the govt the goods and services you have used.
    How about I only pay for what I agree to use ? I pay three gasoline taxes , hat covers the road I use , I will write a check ea month to the fire dept , just in case ,I am done , I will keep the rest of my monies a put it where it will be more useful . Sound reasonable ? Does to me.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Taxes does not equal "theft". If nobody paid taxes, then you would be stealing from the govt the goods and services you have used.
    Instead, if we didn't pay taxes, maybe the government wouldn't be supplying good and services we don't want.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Taxes does not equal "theft". If nobody paid taxes, then you would be stealing from the govt the goods and services you have used.
    Taxes are theft . Article One , Section Eight is very reasonable . it explains what is not theft .Any Fed tax outside of that is theft .Theft is immoral. Requiring me to participate in the immoral is no different than coming to my house and stealing. It is in fact probably worse .

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Taxes does not equal "theft". If nobody paid taxes, then you would be stealing from the govt the goods and services you have used.
    If you don't pay up to the mafia, you are stealing the protection they provide you.

    What's the difference?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Instead, if we didn't pay taxes, maybe the government wouldn't be supplying good and services we don't want.
    That is correct , I want only to be left to my own and unmolested by such evil Marxists.

  23. #20
    Department of Health and Human Services reported that among those receiving federal subsidies — the great majority of those signing up — the average net premium was only $82 a month.
    82*12 = $984












    On the subject of the "fails to fail" healthcare system in the US.... a personal sidenote:


    My 4 month old nephew is in the ER for the 3rd time this week. His APTT just came back at 112, that means his blood doesn't clot. He has severe hemophilia B just like my son.

    He's bleeding, internally into an elbow. Its causing long term damage every minute that elapses after the bleed began earlier this week. He was sent home from the ER just now, again, and told to see a hematologist tomorrow... where they'll run more tests and get back to us in a few days.

    Fact of the matter is he needs IV clotting factor and has needed it for 4 days now; the dose is very easy to calculate, and the meds easy to adminster, I could do both myself if I wasn't 1000 miles away and a criminal for sharing my son's meds. My sister inlaw was just able to convince the 4th doctor she's seen in so many days that they should test his APTT. APTT isn't enough "official" evidence to get him some meds though... the official tests will take a few days to get back. Fact of the matter though, there is family history of a very specific bleeding disorder on my wife's side. APTT of 112 is all but absolutely indicative of that. Nobody with normal blood has 112 APTT. Not official enough to treat, admit... offer an ice pack... Nope... just sent home bleeding; "could be sprained".


    What has been official enough though... HHS has had enough official evidence to start an inquiry and Cops have contacted my home, my mother inlaws home, and my sister inlaws husbands employer to press us for info on whether or not the child has been beaten. I went through the same $#@! when my kid was diagnosed. All the manpower in the world to push the criminal/abusive slant... pass the buck when it comes to compassionate care.


    Still bleeding, elbow bruised swollen and puffy. An hour into the bleed 4 days ago permanent damage began.

    He's seen his primary care, 2 ER doctors, and an Ortho specialist... all of which passed the buck. I was the one who explained to my sister inlaw that 112 APTT means he's "got it", no one at the hospital would man up to the fact of the matter.

    It stops 10 minutes after he gets a dose of meds.

    Welcome to USA where healthcare "fails to fail"




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    Last edited by presence; 07-17-2014 at 11:10 PM.

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  24. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Taxes does not equal "theft". If nobody paid taxes, then you would be stealing from the govt the goods and services you have used.
    If someone used fraud to obtain goods and services they did not pay for then it would be stealing. If someone offered you goods and services without you paying then that would be the equivalent of welfare. The issue here is that people don't have a choice if they want these "goods" or "services" since if they do not pay they will be met with deadly force.

    How can you morally justify forcing people to pay for Obamacare when they do not want it? This is a very important question.

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  25. #22
    Deadly force? What deadly force? You do not go to jail if you don't buy one of the many private plans set up by obamacare. All that happens is that you pay a small fee ($95 I believe) to offset the risk that you incur on the rest of us if you get sick w/o insurance.

  26. #23
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    Obamacare is offering free and/or subsidized healthcare by forcing people to pay taxes that they don't want and don't agree with. If they do not pay those taxes and attempt to defend what is morally their own they will be meet with a counter government force that will kill them if needed. Try not paying the IRS and see where that gets you...

    So I repeat: How can you morally justify forcing people to pay for Obamacare when they do not want it?

    If you want to take the position that we should be obligated to pay the IRS, then i ask on what basis is that moral when it was never agreed to? If you work to produce something and want to keep what you created, how can anyone else morally claim the fruits of your labor?

    Obamacare taxes:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...145413745.html
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  27. #24



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    56ktarget, that only attempts to address the issue of not buying insurance and/or paying the fine ("The law does not send people to jail for not paying the fine,"), it does not address the overall issue of the tax structure of how all the free / subsidized healthcare is funded, which comes from other means. Take the first two taxes listed in the yahoo piece, one is a tax of the fruits of your investment labor and the other is a tax on your labor:

    A 3.8% surtax on "investment income"
    A 0.9% surtax on Medicare taxes

    Are you claiming that there will be no force used to collect these? Do you think these are moral?

    Again, my question stands: How can you morally justify forcing people to pay for Obamacare, such as with taking away the fruits of their labor, when they do not want it?
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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Deadly force? What deadly force? You do not go to jail if you don't buy one of the many private plans set up by obamacare. All that happens is that you pay a small fee ($95 I believe) to offset the risk that you incur on the rest of us if you get sick w/o insurance.
    Hahahaha. And when a mugger sticks a gun in your face he usually doesn't kill you if you give him your wallet. So it isn't theft or use of deadly force. They only kill you if you resist being robbed.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

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  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    Deadly force? What deadly force? You do not go to jail if you don't buy one of the many private plans set up by obamacare. All that happens is that you pay a small fee ($95 I believe) to offset the risk that you incur on the rest of us if you get sick w/o insurance.
    There is so much wrong here, I don't even know where to begin.

    "What deadly force," "many private plans," "small fee," "offset the risk that you incur on the rest of us..."

    On second thought, I won't bother, since progs are ineducable and don't even know they're fascists.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    All that happens is that you pay a small fee ($95 I believe) to offset the risk that you incur on the rest of us if you get sick w/o insurance.

    Yes, it is $95. The $95 is the amount incurred on the rest of us for people who don't care of themselves, people who get sick, or people who don't pay their own way.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
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    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




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  33. #29
    The constitution grants govt the power to levy taxes. I dont see that as somehow being "unmoral".

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by 56ktarget View Post
    The constitution grants govt the power to levy taxes. I dont see that as somehow being "unmoral".
    Taking this at face value, what gives the Constitution the power to levy taxes?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

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