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Thread: How long will the National Aeronatics Space Administration continue for?

  1. #1

    Cool How long will the National Aeronatics Space Administration continue for?

    Hi there,

    As some may remember this user's name, probably very few. But anyway.

    As my subject line states, how long does this government program have, regardless of which ever government rolls in.

    I'm notsure if this is the best forum for this question, i thought may be America's debate as they are far from Liberty.

    But for those who have a view, with trying to ignore private companies as an alternative.

    I watched Independence day just on the 4 of july as well as it was aired last month here in the UK, the film with Bill Pullman and Will Smith. I'm sure here on this forum quite a few have watched it. I had thought about what the fictional leader acted by Bill had said, we don't want to cause panic. And how at the time of the film there was no cool mobile phones or a real intereconnected web for communication. This film came out in 1996.

    I also watched Paramount's Startrek First contact again aired this month and last, and how exciting all that space stuff is in the scifi world, ofcourse launching a shuttle in the real world and actually trying to maintain an orbit is certainly very different from a Type 12 shuttle or a Runabout shuttle from Deep Space 9 orbiting a planet.

    I have used Orbiter Simulator 2010, unfortunately I failed to achieve orbit properly, and I spent two days in the Simulator doing prograde and retrograde burns editing the fuel so I'd could get a half baked orbit for deploying satelite. The shuttle was a remarkable vehicle for its time certainly a step forward in comfort compared to a decade before when Commander Young went to the Moon. He was the first commander of one those spacecraft.

    Excuse the rambling above. Though my question about NASA is quite serious. I'm an eager fan of that American program.



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  3. #2
    Theft institutions tend to last the length of the empire. Perhaps longer, what happened to the soviet space agency after the ussr collapsed? Different name and less costly?
    Last edited by Henry Rogue; 07-05-2014 at 08:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  4. #3
    I have never thought about that. It is the Russian space agency. I remember reading about plans to upgrade the Soyuz craft perhaps for tourism to the moon. But I think that is quite unlikely.

    Currently as those who are aware, Astronauts from your country rely on an expensive flight to the International space station a couple of times a year. Ideally the Russians should make it cheaper as they are in partnership in Low Earth orbit with NASA - US.

  5. #4
    15 Billion dollars pissed in the wind every year and for all that... we got freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and velcro.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  6. #5
    We are maybe a decade away from seeing private competitors outperforming NASA in a lot of areas. It will happen a lot like how UPS and FedEx start crushing US Postal Service. Even though it's not completely a government agency, USPS survived for a long time simply because there were no competitors. E-commerce changed that, just like space tourism will do to NASA.

    I think NASA will still be around, but their scope will be limited.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    just like space tourism will do to NASA.

    Give it another decade or two... what NASA does for a billion dollars... the free market will be banging out in 10X quantity for $250k.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    15 Billion dollars pissed in the wind every year and for all that... we got freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and velcro.
    Come on.

    You can't possibly think that Velcro would have been created else wise.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  9. #8
    I think that is a wrong perception to think the free market will do this. Government made it happen.

    As one user here stated that the National agency is a defence program too. As it is Aeronautics refering to high altitude flight and testing and safety of aircraft.

    The Mars Science Laboratory's first year on Mars, and almost two on Earth the mission duration that is. It has a good few more months to go to get to Mount Sharp, where our destiny may possibly be sealed as a species. If not, then it was worth a try. 'Sol 679', Martian days.

    Programs like the missions NASA has produced are overwhelmingly expensive and don't have direct profit, only indirect like the tech on those probes etc

    What hinders this type of subject is energy resource decline, over population, and debt crisis.

    I think the debt will hit this first. It surely will be a very sad time when that happens.

    As I thought about Patrick Stewart's character's line in 'First Contact' Captain Picard states to Data and his ship's councellor Diana after her conclusion that the scientist Dr Cochrane may dead in the attack at Montana, he may have to realise that Humankind's future will go if Mr Cochrane's warp flight doesn't take place.

    I think the end of orbital flight, and Low Earth orbit will contribute to the end of our species.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    15 Billion dollars pissed in the wind every year and for all that... we got freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and velcro.

    NASA had nothing to do with the invention of Velcro, nasa only popularized its use.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velcro

  12. #10
    20 years, NASA will be regulating the private space tourism industry.

  13. #11
    You thought Star Trek was cool and you want to live it. That's nice. You do realize that the original series was set in the twenty-fourth century and the next generation in the twenty-fifth, right? Take care of yourself.

    You want the U.S. to pay for it? How kind. Too bad we're seventeen trillion dollars in debt already.

    You do realize, don't you, that government might have been the quickest way to get us to the moon from barely able to orbit, but space tourism, being a potentially profitable venture, will happen decades sooner if private enterprise has a crack at it than it would if government enforces a monopoly on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  14. #12
    Just how much are you an expert on the whole idea of launching into Low Earth orbit. Its tremendous amount of money, for a company to risk so much for almost nothing. Who wants science? A comany must profit.

    Space is nothing like here on Earth.

    If anything what is really needed is an International nation by nation working together for a shared future in space. If one country like yours is in serious debt and many others then there is no future.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    15 Billion dollars pissed in the wind every year and for all that... we got freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and velcro.
    Don't forget space junk. Thanks for the space pollution, government.
    http://www.esa.int/spaceinvideos/Vid...ris_Story_2013
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  16. #14
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    15 Billion dollars pissed in the wind every year and for all that... we got freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and velcro.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    I tried that in the Seventies, yuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Rogue View Post
    I tried that in the Seventies, yuck.
    Well no one said the invention had to be a good one
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  21. #18
    Even my kids think Tang tastes like $#@!.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
    —Charles Mackay

    "god i fucking wanna rip his balls off and offer them to the gods"
    -Anonymous

  22. #19
    I used to crush up No-DOZ and some other OTC to mix with Tang to make SuperTang. You can never really hide the bitter taste of the caffeine, but you will be able to feel your hair growing.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Rogue View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Notsure if that is a complete accurate protray of space junk, but yes that is the unfortunate use of that frontier beyond Earth.

    Every piece of junk must be tracked for the safety of the International Space station's Astronauts. Two Soyuz spacecrafts are always docked incase of quick evacuation of the station is necessary. 2011 that came close.

    17,000 miles per hour those objects are travelling. A whole new tech and innovation is needed to try and clear that mess up.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    Just how much are you an expert on the whole idea of launching into Low Earth orbit. Its tremendous amount of money, for a company to risk so much for almost nothing. Who wants science? A comany must profit.
    Um, you do realize private companies have put satellites up, right? For profit? In the real world? Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  25. #22
    For a little satelite yes. But that is all space flight has amounted to. Personnel space flight is the business of NASA and the Russian Space Agency.

    No company will venture down this road.

    Mr Branson is so far may be the only real possible outcome of suborbital flight. Which he has yet to fly on first.

  26. #23
    The former Eagle spacecraft pilot Mr Aldrin explained that Elon Musk's attempt at sending people to the Martian world isn't workable, a private company to do this when those people will have to live there permanently. If my life had been different, I might consider it, but I don't have the skills. I think have some of the phsycology for existing alone, as a mission to Mars will certainly be partly that along with other challenges.

    He isn't against private companies, but he's more American NASA centric, and Eugene Cernan is pretty full on that entirely.

  27. #24
    NASA is in a really bad situation. They are not even a jobs program anymore. They are a Union run program and their Union bosses are senators. The Unions don't even belong to NASA but to its contractors.

    NASA's Human Spaceflight program cannot go anywhere. It must not. That is not its job.

    Imagine running a company where your strategic plan is written by your suppliers who you can't fire.

    This is why there was no Shuttle 2. There were 15 upgrades known since 1985 that would have cut Shuttles costs and turn around times tremendously. Like the OMS Pods. They were so toxic they took a month in a separate building to process after each flight. The designers wanted to swap em for Lox, Methane. Safe, clean, Fast. 1000 workers could have been shifted to work on other projects, but the Union said NO.

    Lookit the SRB's. The should have been pressure fed Meth/Lox boosters with no gimbals. Basically zero turn around time. Challenger would not have happened. But the cost was front loaded, so they went with solids. The solids can explode and kill everyone at any time in their handling. And they have to come from Utah for some fool reason instead of being poured in Florida. Change em out for massive saving in time and money? Put the staff on other projects? Union says HELL NO.

    In fact because of the protectionism, right up to the end of shuttle Nasa was working from EIGHTY THOUSAND PHYSICAL BLUE PRINTS. They refused to upgrade to a digital model.

    The Union is so strong that it has Republican Senators saying that private companies cannot build things as safely as the government can.

    Nasa isn't going anywhere, neither into space or out of the budget.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    For a little satelite yes. But that is all space flight has amounted to. Personnel space flight is the business of NASA and the Russian Space Agency.

    No company will venture down this road.

    Mr Branson is so far may be the only real possible outcome of suborbital flight. Which he has yet to fly on first.
    Space X has flown and recovered a capsule which could have kept a person alive if they had put someone in it. There are two other companies less than a year away from having man-rated space craft in orbit.

    Nasa is over a decade away from being able to put men in space.
    Last edited by idiom; 07-09-2014 at 08:29 PM.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    NASA is in a really bad situation. They are not even a jobs program anymore. They are a Union run program and their Union bosses are senators. The Unions don't even belong to NASA but to its contractors.

    NASA's Human Spaceflight program cannot go anywhere. It must not. That is not its job.

    Imagine running a company where your strategic plan is written by your suppliers who you can't fire.

    This is why there was no Shuttle 2. There were 15 upgrades known since 1985 that would have cut Shuttles costs and turn around times tremendously. Like the OMS Pods. They were so toxic they took a month in a separate building to process after each flight. The designers wanted to swap em for Lox, Methane. Safe, clean, Fast. 1000 workers could have been shifted to work on other projects, but the Union said NO.

    Lookit the SRB's. The should have been pressure fed Meth/Lox boosters with no gimbals. Basically zero turn around time. Challenger would not have happened. But the cost was front loaded, so they went with solids. The solids can explode and kill everyone at any time in their handling. And they have to come from Utah for some fool reason instead of being poured in Florida. Change em out for massive saving in time and money? Put the staff on other projects? Union says HELL NO.

    In fact because of the protectionism, right up to the end of shuttle Nasa was working from EIGHTY THOUSAND PHYSICAL BLUE PRINTS. They refused to upgrade to a digital model.

    The Union is so strong that it has Republican Senators saying that private companies cannot build things as safely as the government can.

    Nasa isn't going anywhere, neither into space or out of the budget.
    Space shuttles were a mistake from the very beginning. Even the soviets, who loved to copy western innovations (and they did make a shuttle) couldn’t believe the americans were going ahead with the shuttle program. It is a very inefficient way to get things into space.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Rogue View Post
    Space shuttles were a mistake from the very beginning. Even the soviets, who loved to copy western innovations (and they did make a shuttle) couldn’t believe the americans were going ahead with the shuttle program. It is a very inefficient way to get things into space.
    It could have been a lot more efficient if it had gone to a second or third generation like it was supposed, and should have in the time and money spent on it.

    Its biggest downside though was the shuttle mandate which lanced a bubble of private low cost launch systems in the 70's by saying everything had to fly on the shuttle. Killed an entire industry with one decree.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  32. #28
    Yes the NASA programs have always been controversial.

    But as I learnt only recently in Orbiter, the Shuttle is like a trolley in orbit, compared to the future MPCV craft supported by Barack, and hopefully the next government.

    The shuttle had a cargo section, and was reusable, surely it was expensive. But every rocket flown as an alternative was gone after one flight. The shuttle obviously is now history, it had ups and downs. It could never be anything else than what it was a low Earth orbital craft.

    Mr Musk's company has yet to really prove the capability of personnel flight.

    I am aware of the Nevadan company that is contructing the Dream chaser, an orbital vehicle, NASA may even contract with this company if it actually takes off for powered flight.

  33. #29
    Unfortunately, NASA will continue up until the financial liabilities of the federal government reach a critical mass that will cause not only NASA, but lots and lots of other programs, if not the entire federal government to collapse. The politicians will never voluntarily defund it.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Unfortunately, NASA will continue up until the financial liabilities of the federal government reach a critical mass that will cause not only NASA, but lots and lots of other programs, if not the entire federal government to collapse. The politicians will never voluntarily defund it.
    Hmm, or increase it like W Bush's Constellation program.

    Such a shame it was only a dream, more like science fiction. I guess when George went AWOL from the Texas Air guard, he forgot to watch those Star Trek reruns in the early 70's for inspiration with a peace and a hope for humankind. Commander Cernan thought damn it where the hell is my Galileo shuttle craft!! I'm sharing a tin can with another guy for three whole days, I'm going bat $#@! crazy!



    Expedition one October 2000, December 8 the Americans came aboard briefly.

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