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Thread: The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

  1. #1

    The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

    The continuing slowness of economic growth in high-income economies has prompted soul-searching among economists. They have looked to weak demand, rising inequality, Chinese competition, over-regulation, inadequate infrastructure and an exhaustion of new technological ideas as possible culprits.

    An additional explanation of slow growth is now receiving attention, however. It is the persistence and expectation of peace.
    The world just hasn’t had that much warfare lately, at least not by historical standards. Some of the recent headlines about Iraq or South Sudan make our world sound like a very bloody place, but today’s casualties pale in light of the tens of millions of people killed in the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Even the Vietnam War had many more deaths than any recent war involving an affluent country.

    Moar here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/up..._r=1&referrer=
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin



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  3. #2
    Is this going to be new meme? Un-fricken real!
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  4. #3
    put all of america's murderers and child rapists in an arena and let them blow each other up with tanks
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  5. #4
    the more things change, the more things stay the same....real PEACE in this world will come when wer're all dead...

  6. #5
    Was just about to post this. The NY Times is trash. This stuff is disgusting.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  7. #6
    Pure insanity.

    So, this is the first time ever this nation has stretched a war out over a decade. The result is the postwar depression started before the wars were over, and with the war going on the postwar depression just won't end. And these people decide it means that the wars aren't big enough. Because, you know, saying anything else would run counter to the official MIC line that WWII got us out of the Great Depression, therefore war is always good for the economy.

    Yet the Roaring Twenties were some of the best economic times this nation has ever seen--and was a time of not only peace, but disarmament.

    These shills aren't even trying to make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  8. #7
    Is it reasonable to expect sectors of the economy to perpetually grow? Is it so horrible if business just tapers off a little? Oh yeah I know, gotta keep pushing the Stock Price up.

    Anyway, I don't think War by itself has ever been the true Stimulus. Previous big wars incidentally created cooperation between public and private sectors to push Innovation. This why Obama's stimulus is weak. His plans have no innovation except maybe for ways on how government can become bigger and more intrusive.

  9. #8
    Because destroying things always increases prosperity.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  11. #9
    And the shade of Frédéric Bastiat shakes his head in disgust ...

    Keynesianism, FTW!! (For The War)
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  12. #10
    Sickening.

    I know people who were spouting that $#@! when Bush invaded Iraq.
    "I'll be great for the economy...blah, blah, blah"
    Even if it were true, which it's not, people are dying FFS. Truly sickening.

  13. #11
    Because nothing says prosperity like a never ending stream of body bags.

  14. #12
    For some insane and unknown reason I clicked on FOX news the other day and Cavuto was talking about Iraq but he was talking about it in terms of the President being the president of a company and the American people being the shareholders. I was like...wtf!? I should have known better to click it.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 06-15-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  15. #13
    Go read the article...it's even worse than it appears.

    It is based mostly on these two books:
    Ian Morris, a professor of classics and history at Stanford, has revived the hypothesis that war is a significant factor behind economic growth in his recent book, “War! What Is it Good For? Conflict and the Progress of Civilization From Primates to Robots.” Morris considers a wide variety of cases, including the Roman Empire, the European state during its Renaissance rise and the contemporary United States. In each case there is good evidence that the desire to prepare for war spurred technological invention and also brought a higher degree of internal social order.

    Another new book, Kwasi Kwarteng’s “War and Gold: A 500-Year History of Empires, Adventures, and Debt,” makes a similar argument but focuses on capital markets. Mr. Kwarteng, a Conservative member of British Parliament, argues that the need to finance wars led governments to help develop monetary and financial institutions, enabling the rise of the West. He does worry, however, that today many governments are abusing these institutions and using them to take on too much debt. (Both Mr. Kwarteng and Mr. Morris are extending themes from Azar Gat’s 820-page magnum opus, “War in Human Civilization,” published in 2006.)
    The principle points to take away are:

    1 - Preparation for war is just as good as war itself.

    2 - Nothing good would come from humanity without governments poking and prodding us along for wartime advancements.

    3 - War and preparation for war, keeps all us worker bees in line.

    Jesus, what an insight into the minds of the sick $#@!s that run this show...

    This goes here:

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-15-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  16. #14
    I welcome anyone who makes this argument to be the first ones to pick up a helmet, wrap their grimy hands around a rifle, and get shipped off in a cargo hold over to whatever war torn part of the world they want to $#@! up next. I'm tired of these cretins advocating loss of life and take over of production simply to sate some fantasy they have that war is anything other than a broken window fallacy where we completely decimate another part of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  17. #15
    History repeats...

    Every war America has been dragged into was predicated on LIES.

    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  18. #16



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  20. #17
    Kwarteng [...] argues that the need to finance wars led governments to help develop monetary and financial institutions [...]
    IOW: Governments had to impose central banking in order to conjure all the money they needed to pay for blowing so much $#@! up.

    And LMAO @ "help develop" ...
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Go read the article...it's even worse than it appears.

    It is based mostly on these two books: [snip quote]

    The principle points to take away are:

    1 - Preparation for war is just as good as war itself.

    2 - Nothing good would come from humanity without governments poking and prodding us along for wartime advancements.

    3 - War and preparation for war, keeps all us worker bees in line.

    Jesus, what an insight into the minds of the sick $#@!s that run this show...
    So, comrade - it appears that you do not approve of "a higher degree of internal social order."

    Reported.

  22. #19
    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "People talk peace, but men give their life's work to war. It won't stop 'til there is as much brains and scientific study put to aid peace as there is to promote war."--Will Rogers 1929
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    'To reduce war taxes is to give every home a better chance... Of all services which the Congress can render to the country I have no hesitation in declaring this one to be paramount.'--Calvin Coolidge
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So, comrade - it appears that you do not approve of "a higher degree of internal social order."

    Reported.
    I do not think I can stand too much more "internal social order".

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I do not think I can stand too much more "internal social order".
    Oh, come on! Not even just a little bit?
    You know, for the good of the MIC & all ...

  25. #22
    The Broken Window Fallacy



    Also keep in mind that the US no longer employes people in this country to create Bullets or Tanks. We did not retool our manufaturing industry to create these things because we no longer manufacture. We get $#@! from China.

    Slightly related:



    May also want to check out "All Wars are Banker Wars".
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Was just about to post this. The NY Times is trash. This stuff is disgusting.
    It is totally vile.

  27. #24
    Think of all the growth we could experience if we bombed these economists' homes.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  29. #25
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    It's worse than that. They aren't just saying that what's good for glassmakers is good for the economy. They're saying that instead of a peace economy (which we could have but we don't because we 'offshored it'), we desperately need to keep developing new and better ways to break more windows.

    We need stuff that can break more windows, and other stuff that can break fewer windows, and stuff that can only crack windows, and stuff that can shatter them in, and stuff that can shatter them out, and weapons of mass window destruction.

    Because that's much better for humanity than, say, helping farmers thrive and finding new markets around the world for their crops.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-15-2014 at 05:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  31. #27
    Anyone else read the comments from the article? A lot of the them are down right scary.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  32. #28
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    If I were religious, this really seems very well planned. It does appear as if there is a war against humanity at numerous levels.

  33. #29
    Massive amounts of debt, that is GDP from the future that has already been blown, would have nothing to do with it...
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    The continuing slowness of economic growth in high-income economies has prompted soul-searching among economists. They have looked to weak demand, rising inequality, Chinese competition, over-regulation, inadequate infrastructure and an exhaustion of new technological ideas as possible culprits.

    An additional explanation of slow growth is now receiving attention, however. It is the persistence and expectation of peace.
    The world just hasn’t had that much warfare lately, at least not by historical standards. Some of the recent headlines about Iraq or South Sudan make our world sound like a very bloody place, but today’s casualties pale in light of the tens of millions of people killed in the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Even the Vietnam War had many more deaths than any recent war involving an affluent country.

    Moar here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/up..._r=1&referrer=
    And they call us extreme.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

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