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Thread: The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

  1. #1

    Default The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

    The continuing slowness of economic growth in high-income economies has prompted soul-searching among economists. They have looked to weak demand, rising inequality, Chinese competition, over-regulation, inadequate infrastructure and an exhaustion of new technological ideas as possible culprits.

    An additional explanation of slow growth is now receiving attention, however. It is the persistence and expectation of peace.
    The world just hasn’t had that much warfare lately, at least not by historical standards. Some of the recent headlines about Iraq or South Sudan make our world sound like a very bloody place, but today’s casualties pale in light of the tens of millions of people killed in the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Even the Vietnam War had many more deaths than any recent war involving an affluent country.

    Moar here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/up..._r=1&referrer=
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.



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  3. #2

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    Is this going to be new meme? Un-fricken real!
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  4. #3

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    put all of america's murderers and child rapists in an arena and let them blow each other up with tanks
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

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  5. #4

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    the more things change, the more things stay the same....real PEACE in this world will come when wer're all dead...

  6. #5

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    Was just about to post this. The NY Times is trash. This stuff is disgusting.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  7. #6

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    Pure insanity.

    So, this is the first time ever this nation has stretched a war out over a decade. The result is the postwar depression started before the wars were over, and with the war going on the postwar depression just won't end. And these people decide it means that the wars aren't big enough. Because, you know, saying anything else would run counter to the official MIC line that WWII got us out of the Great Depression, therefore war is always good for the economy.

    Yet the Roaring Twenties were some of the best economic times this nation has ever seen--and was a time of not only peace, but disarmament.

    These shills aren't even trying to make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

  8. #7

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    Is it reasonable to expect sectors of the economy to perpetually grow? Is it so horrible if business just tapers off a little? Oh yeah I know, gotta keep pushing the Stock Price up.

    Anyway, I don't think War by itself has ever been the true Stimulus. Previous big wars incidentally created cooperation between public and private sectors to push Innovation. This why Obama's stimulus is weak. His plans have no innovation except maybe for ways on how government can become bigger and more intrusive.

  9. #8

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    Because destroying things always increases prosperity.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

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  10. #9

  11. #10

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    Sickening.

    I know people who were spouting that $#@! when Bush invaded Iraq.
    "I'll be great for the economy...blah, blah, blah"
    Even if it were true, which it's not, people are dying FFS. Truly sickening.

  12. #11

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    Because nothing says prosperity like a never ending stream of body bags.

  13. #12

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    For some insane and unknown reason I clicked on FOX news the other day and Cavuto was talking about Iraq but he was talking about it in terms of the President being the president of a company and the American people being the shareholders. I was like...wtf!? I should have known better to click it.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 06-15-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  14. #13

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    Go read the article...it's even worse than it appears.

    It is based mostly on these two books:
    Ian Morris, a professor of classics and history at Stanford, has revived the hypothesis that war is a significant factor behind economic growth in his recent book, “War! What Is it Good For? Conflict and the Progress of Civilization From Primates to Robots.” Morris considers a wide variety of cases, including the Roman Empire, the European state during its Renaissance rise and the contemporary United States. In each case there is good evidence that the desire to prepare for war spurred technological invention and also brought a higher degree of internal social order.

    Another new book, Kwasi Kwarteng’s “War and Gold: A 500-Year History of Empires, Adventures, and Debt,” makes a similar argument but focuses on capital markets. Mr. Kwarteng, a Conservative member of British Parliament, argues that the need to finance wars led governments to help develop monetary and financial institutions, enabling the rise of the West. He does worry, however, that today many governments are abusing these institutions and using them to take on too much debt. (Both Mr. Kwarteng and Mr. Morris are extending themes from Azar Gat’s 820-page magnum opus, “War in Human Civilization,” published in 2006.)
    The principle points to take away are:

    1 - Preparation for war is just as good as war itself.

    2 - Nothing good would come from humanity without governments poking and prodding us along for wartime advancements.

    3 - War and preparation for war, keeps all us worker bees in line.

    Jesus, what an insight into the minds of the sick $#@!s that run this show...

    This goes here:

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-15-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  15. #14

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    I welcome anyone who makes this argument to be the first ones to pick up a helmet, wrap their grimy hands around a rifle, and get shipped off in a cargo hold over to whatever war torn part of the world they want to $#@! up next. I'm tired of these cretins advocating loss of life and take over of production simply to sate some fantasy they have that war is anything other than a broken window fallacy where we completely decimate another part of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  16. #15

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    History repeats...

    Every war America has been dragged into was predicated on LIES.

    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  17. #16

  18. #17

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    Kwarteng [...] argues that the need to finance wars led governments to help develop monetary and financial institutions [...]
    IOW: Governments had to impose central banking in order to conjure all the money they needed to pay for blowing so much $#@! up.

    And LMAO @ "help develop" ...

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Go read the article...it's even worse than it appears.

    It is based mostly on these two books: [snip quote]

    The principle points to take away are:

    1 - Preparation for war is just as good as war itself.

    2 - Nothing good would come from humanity without governments poking and prodding us along for wartime advancements.

    3 - War and preparation for war, keeps all us worker bees in line.

    Jesus, what an insight into the minds of the sick $#@!s that run this show...
    So, comrade - it appears that you do not approve of "a higher degree of internal social order."

    Reported.

  20. #19

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    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "People talk peace, but men give their life's work to war. It won't stop 'til there is as much brains and scientific study put to aid peace as there is to promote war."--Will Rogers 1929
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    'To reduce war taxes is to give every home a better chance... Of all services which the Congress can render to the country I have no hesitation in declaring this one to be paramount.'--Calvin Coolidge
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So, comrade - it appears that you do not approve of "a higher degree of internal social order."

    Reported.
    I do not think I can stand too much more "internal social order".

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I do not think I can stand too much more "internal social order".
    Oh, come on! Not even just a little bit?
    You know, for the good of the MIC & all ...

  23. #22

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    The Broken Window Fallacy



    Also keep in mind that the US no longer employes people in this country to create Bullets or Tanks. We did not retool our manufaturing industry to create these things because we no longer manufacture. We get $#@! from China.

    Slightly related:



    May also want to check out "All Wars are Banker Wars".
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

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    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Was just about to post this. The NY Times is trash. This stuff is disgusting.
    It is totally vile.

  25. #24

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    Think of all the growth we could experience if we bombed these economists' homes.
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    Just for the record, 99% of the time I say "In my country........" I am actually messing with you people because I know you guys have absolutely no idea what happens in my country.

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  26. #25

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    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    It's worse than that. They aren't just saying that what's good for glassmakers is good for the economy. They're saying that instead of a peace economy (which we could have but we don't because we 'offshored it'), we desperately need to keep developing new and better ways to break more windows.

    We need stuff that can break more windows, and other stuff that can break fewer windows, and stuff that can only crack windows, and stuff that can shatter them in, and stuff that can shatter them out, and weapons of mass window destruction.

    Because that's much better for humanity than, say, helping farmers thrive and finding new markets around the world for their crops.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-15-2014 at 05:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

  28. #27

    Default

    Anyone else read the comments from the article? A lot of the them are down right scary.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  29. #28

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    If I were religious, this really seems very well planned. It does appear as if there is a war against humanity at numerous levels.
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    Does the fucking victim have family? Why does the precinct still exist?

  30. #29

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    Massive amounts of debt, that is GDP from the future that has already been blown, would have nothing to do with it...
    In New Zealand:
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    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
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    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
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    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    The continuing slowness of economic growth in high-income economies has prompted soul-searching among economists. They have looked to weak demand, rising inequality, Chinese competition, over-regulation, inadequate infrastructure and an exhaustion of new technological ideas as possible culprits.

    An additional explanation of slow growth is now receiving attention, however. It is the persistence and expectation of peace.
    The world just hasn’t had that much warfare lately, at least not by historical standards. Some of the recent headlines about Iraq or South Sudan make our world sound like a very bloody place, but today’s casualties pale in light of the tens of millions of people killed in the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Even the Vietnam War had many more deaths than any recent war involving an affluent country.

    Moar here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/up..._r=1&referrer=
    And they call us extreme.
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