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Thread: NRA calls 'open carry' activism 'downright weird'

  1. #1

    NRA calls 'open carry' activism 'downright weird'

    HOUSTON — Companies, customers and others critical of Texas gun rights advocates who have brought military-style assault rifles into businesses as part of demonstrations supporting “open carry” gun rights now have a surprising ally: the National Rifle Association.

    The advocates’ actions in restaurants and other public places — part of a push for less restrictive gun laws, including legalizing the open carry of handguns — have prompted public criticism.

    The NRA has long been a zealous advocate for gun owners’ rights. But the group’s lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action, has called the demonstrations counterproductive to promoting gun rights, scary and “downright weird.”

    The NRA said the demonstrations have “crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness.”

    “Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners. That’s not the Texas way. And that’s certainly not the NRA way,” the NRA said in a statement posted on its website...
    cont.
    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2014/ju...wnright-weird/



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  3. #2
    Well, the NRA has lately been endorsing antigunners against progunners so I'm not likely to put too much stock in their 'opinions.'

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Well, the NRA has lately been endorsing antigunners against progunners so I'm not likely to put too much stock in their 'opinions.'

    Lately? Hell, the NRA has been doing things like that for decades. They're traitors to 2nd Amendment advocates and pretty much always have been, plain and simple.
    Chris

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  5. #4
    Didn't Harry Reid get the NRA's endorsement last time he was up for re-election?

    Enough said.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Lately? Hell, the NRA has been doing things like that for decades. They're traitors to 2nd Amendment advocates and pretty much always have been, plain and simple.
    The NRA has a track record, and it goes like this:
    Gun control as we know it did not exist prior to the creation of the NRA.

    Every single piece of gun control legislation we live under happened under their watch.

    Case closed.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  7. #6
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  8. #7
    The NRA has approved anti-2nd Amendment legislation before. I do know they are better now, but they're still the NRA. GOA is a much better organization.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  9. #8
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  11. #9
    I fully agree with everything that has been said about the NRA here, but I must point out that they came out with another statement yesterday that said they fully support Open Carry.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5441189.html

  12. #10
    The NRA sucks balls in many respects, but they are right on the issue of open carry activists - the ones playing with rifles (ie. posing for pictures) in burrito places and coffee shops - doing more harm than good with respect to advancing public opinion on open carry. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is smart.
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  13. #11
    Negotiate Rights Away

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    The NRA sucks balls in many respects, but they are right on the issue of open carry activists - the ones playing with rifles (ie. posing for pictures) in burrito places and coffee shops - doing more harm than good with respect to advancing public opinion on open carry. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is smart.
    I disagree.

    That's pretty much exactly the same argument that was used against promoting CCW thirty years ago.

    Now "Shall Issue" CCW is law in 47 of 50 states.

    The "winners" in this fight, all around, are the bold, the ones who proudly and without hesitation, exercise and publicly pronounce their rights.

  15. #13
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    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
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  16. #14
    Illegally open carrying rifles in places that serve alcohol is strange activism.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    Illegally open carrying rifles in places that serve alcohol is strange activism.
    Starbucks and Jack in the Box serve alcohol?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Starbucks and Jack in the Box serve alcohol?
    Starbucks does, in limited locations. It doesn't in Texas.

    I was talked about the illegal open carrying of rifles in places that serve alcohol, though.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    Starbucks does, in limited locations. It doesn't in Texas.

    I was talked about the illegal open carrying of rifles in places that serve alcohol, though.
    And where would that be? In Texas, weapons are prohibited in bars that derive more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales. All such establishment are required to post what is locally known as the "51%" sign at the entrance, so those of us who carry only on days that end with the letter y can leave the weapon in the vehicle, or realize that I made an error in considering even going into such an establishment where I have a legal requirement to disarm.

    No Open Carry Texas activities have taken place at such a location. While I agree there is a high idiot factor here, keep the facts straight.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    . I do know they are better now, but they're still the NRA.
    Since when are they any better? they gave cash to Harry Reid in 2010.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
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  22. #19
    The NRA was founded by Yankees in the 1870s after the war between the states. General Ambrose Burnside was the first president. It was founded to teach Northerners how to shoot. Because during the war, Yankee kids were not very good shots. Not killing enough secessionists to please Uncle Sam.

    The NRA was not founded to protect liberty, but to protect Washington Devil City. They have supported Gun Control since at least the 1960s.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  23. #20
    The NRA has long been a zealous advocate for gun owners’ rights.
    No they haven't.

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  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Well, the NRA has lately been endorsing antigunners against progunners so I'm not likely to put too much stock in their 'opinions.'
    I think the last thing NRA wants is the full respect of the RKBA by government. If that happens, they doubtlessly fear the money wagons will stop delivering. I will not go so far as to say they are controlled opposition, but at times like this I am sorely tempted.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    And where would that be? In Texas, weapons are prohibited in bars that derive more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales. All such establishment are required to post what is locally known as the "51%" sign at the entrance, so those of us who carry only on days that end with the letter y can leave the weapon in the vehicle, or realize that I made an error in considering even going into such an establishment where I have a legal requirement to disarm.

    No Open Carry Texas activities have taken place at such a location. While I agree there is a high idiot factor here, keep the facts straight.
    According to the Texas government, if an establishment in Texas sells beer or any other type of alcohol, it is illegal for people to open carry rifles there. Texas open carry activists planned to carry at such places and then did it.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by libertyjam View Post
    I fully agree with everything that has been said about the NRA here, but I must point out that they came out with another statement yesterday that said they fully support Open Carry.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5441189.html
    Because of course they do... because they're the NRA. To do otherwise would just be "downright weird."
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  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    According to the Texas government, if an establishment in Texas sells beer or any other type of alcohol, it is illegal for people to open carry rifles there. Texas open carry activists planned to carry at such places and then did it.
    License holders in TX have to pass a test on this - please note

    § 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club. (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

    § 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a): (1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; (2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress; (3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court; (4) on the premises of a racetrack; (5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or (6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that: (A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or (B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited. (b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court. (c) In this section: (1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035. (2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law. (d) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as: (1) a member of the armed forces or national guard; (2) a guard employed by a penal institution; or (3) a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies if: (A) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and (B) the firearm or club is in plain view; or (4) Deleted by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, § 17, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. (5) a security officer who holds a personal protection authorization under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes). (e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor checked all firearms as baggage in accordance with federal or state law or regulations before entering a secured area. (f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. (g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony. (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if: (1) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and (2) the firearm or club is in plain view. (i) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (a)(6) that the actor possessed a firearm or club: (1) while in a vehicle being driven on a public road; or (2) at the actor's residence or place of employment.

    § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun. (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code; (2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event; (3) on the premises of a correctional facility; (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate; (5) in an amusement park; or (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity. (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed. (e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. (f) In this section: (1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. (2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. (g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree. (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9. (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. (j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Lately? Hell, the NRA has been doing things like that for decades. They're traitors to 2nd Amendment advocates and pretty much always have been, plain and simple.
    +rep

    NRA has some great firearm education programs but that's about all they have going for them at this point. If you really want to defend the 2nd amendment against gov't usurpation, GOA is the way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    License holders in TX have to pass a test on this - please note
    ...
    § 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun. (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code; (2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event; (3) on the premises of a correctional facility; (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate; (5) in an amusement park; or (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity. (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed. (e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. (f) In this section: (1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. (2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. (g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree. (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9. (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. (j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
    I don't claim to be am expert on Texas gun laws or anything. I'm just pointing out that the Texas government noticed that open carry activists were carrying rifles in places that sold alcohol and issued a press release, reminding folks that the behavior was not allowed.

    The press release
    http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/home/pre...3/20130906.asp

    Even after the press release, folks have continued to open carry rifles in places that sell alcohol in Texas (because the TABC doesn't understand Texas law?).
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  31. #27
    FWIW, I still tend to think that open carry unnecessarily pushes the firearm envelope.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    I don't claim to be am expert on Texas gun laws or anything. I'm just pointing out that the Texas government noticed that open carry activists were carrying rifles in places that sold alcohol and issued a press release, reminding folks that the behavior was not allowed.

    The press release
    http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/home/pre...3/20130906.asp

    Even after the press release, folks have continued to open carry rifles in places that sell alcohol in Texas (because the TABC doesn't understand Texas law?).
    The legal obligation is on the person having the license to sell alcohol to have the patrons carrying prohibited weapons to leave, or file a criminal trespass complaint.

    One of the quirks in Texas law. The holder of the license has to know when and under what circumstances, which types of weapons are prohibited in his establishment. For example, during certain "historical re-enactments" those prohibitions do not apply ..... and so on.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    FWIW, I still tend to think that open carry unnecessarily pushes the firearm envelope.
    Might depend on the State you are in. It is helping in Texas, these groups have pushed the issue into the political mainstream. Open carry of handguns should pass soon. That is the whole point. No one except extreme liberty people thought of open carry here until last year. Now the more establishment Republicans are getting excited about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Might depend on the State you are in. It is helping in Texas, these groups have pushed the issue into the political mainstream. Open carry of handguns should pass soon. That is the whole point. No one except extreme liberty people thought of open carry here until last year. Now the more establishment Republicans are getting excited about it.
    Makes sense. Unfortunately, it is hurting people in every other state. More and more restaurants are telling gun owners they aren't welcome
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 06-05-2014 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Changed places to restaurants
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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