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Thread: Christians’ Love Of The Warfare State Is Killing Other Christians

  1. #1

    Christians’ Love Of The Warfare State Is Killing Other Christians

    Let’s set the record straight: perpetual war is a tool of elitists and globalists to enslave the U.S. citizenry. While we are killing thousands of people abroad (most of whom are innocents)--all in the name of “liberating” them--we are tightening the tyrannical noose around the necks of the American people. In the name of the “War on Terror,” the most sophisticated surveillance society in the history of mankind has been created right here in the continental United States. With the advent of the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) under G.W. Bush, Washington, D.C., has constructed (and is continuing to construct) a burgeoning police state the likes of which Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, and Adolf Hitler could have only dreamed about. And for the most part, evangelicals are fine with it.

    But what is really happening in those countries that these endless wars are supposedly “liberating?” And specifically, what is happening to the thousands and millions of Christians within those countries after having been “liberated” by Uncle Sam? After all, America’s evangelical churches of every denomination spend millions of dollars every year sending missionaries around the globe to evangelize folks. How many missionary slides have we seen? How many passionate, tearful sermons have we heard imploring us to get a burden for missions? One of the most sacred elements of any Christian church is its missions program.

    So, on the one hand, evangelicals are weeping, praying, and giving millions of dollars to make Christians out of the peoples of the world and on the other hand, they are leading the charge for America’s efforts to rain death and destruction down upon those same people.

    Aside from the utter inconsistency of the above, what are all of these endless wars accomplishing for the Christians who live inside the countries that we are “liberating?” What is all of these Christian-endorsed wars doing to the people of God around the world? The answer will shock most believers.

    According to an Infowars.com report, “In areas where we spent hundreds of billions of dollars and where thousands of precious American lives were sacrificed, churches are regularly being bombed, Christians are being brutally beheaded, and laws have been passed to make it illegal for a Muslim to convert to Christianity. If we were not even able to provide the most basic of liberties and freedoms to the people living in those nations, what in the world did we actually accomplish by ‘liberating’ them?

    Those carrying out this persecution of Christians in Syria are being directly funded and aided by the governments of the United States and Saudi Arabia.”

    http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles...hristians.aspx

    This is another good article by Churck Baldwin. It is ironic and disturbing, to say the very least, many of the strongest advocates for intervention and spreading democracy globally resulting in the installing of regimes which persecute Christians, are actually American Christians. Some may not pay attention. Some may not just realize and others may just not care. But, the ironic thing is, Christians are actually, even though indirectly, supporting the persecution of Christians when they beat the drums for intervention. I don’t know how any Christian could in good conscience support policies and a foreign policy which aids and supports those who persecute Christians and other civilians.
    "I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again. The title of champion may from time to time fall to others more than ourselves. But the heart, the spirit, and the soul of champions remains in Green Bay." Vince Lombardi


    Isaiah 53:5: But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.



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  3. #2
    Saudi Arabia deserves some mention too. We may not be intervening there, but that's just because we're too busy enabling them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  4. #3
    Jesus loves America best. That's why he wrote the bible in English.
    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"

  5. #4

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 11:15-19
    And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. 17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. 18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine. 19 And when evening was come, he went out of the city.
    I think He'd add something about murder today...

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Saudi Arabia deserves some mention too. We may not be intervening there, but that's just because we're too busy enabling them.
    Exactly, along with Qatar and Turkey.
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  8. #7
    Reminds me of:

  9. #8
    Christians have traditionally been treated horribly in Israel. It's nothing for a rabbi to spit on or rough up a suspected Christian (Israeli, Palestinian, or otherwise). And yet most U.S. Christians prayerfully and enthusiastically insist that we MUST support our "best friend in the Middle East" - at whatever the cost.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Annie View Post
    Exactly, along with Qatar and Turkey.
    And the UAE. And Jordan.

  12. #10
    Jordan and Turkey are partners with the USA but they are hardly more than nationalists unlike KSA,Quatar and the UAE who are aspiring to be global players in a very sinister way. The first two especially because they have been financing radical Muslim groups around the world.They are even active in Europe but the EU does nothing.What they do is pay for new mosques to be built in communities and then have the imams either sent for training in KSA or send their own imams.Those imams are 99% of the time preaching about sharia and radicalizing the population.

    You should not have stopped Sadam from destroying every one of them when he started the war.After North Korea declaring war on KSA,UAE and Qatar is maybe the most just war that can be declared.
    Last edited by Demigod; 06-05-2014 at 03:40 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by COpatriot View Post
    Jesus loves America best. That's why he wrote the bible in English.
    lol awesome

  14. #12
    How very convenient to blame people of faith for the mess the world is in. The problems today are thanks to the Constitutional ignorance and complacency of our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Of course, many of them volunteered, or were conscriipted. It colors their perception.

    Many Christian sects teach pacifism. I'm challenging the broad-brush accusation that Christian believers are at fault.
    Last edited by euphemia; 06-06-2014 at 08:27 PM.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    How very convenient to blame people of faith for the mess the world is in. The problems today are thanks to the Constitutional ignorance and complacency of our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Of course, many of them volunteered, or were conscriipted. It colors their perception.

    Many Christian sects teach pacivism. I'm challenging the broad-brush accusation that Christian believers are at fault.
    You realize the OP is quoting Chuck Baldwin, who is a Christian pastor?

    I'm a Christian to. The OP is dead on. Too many Christians are complacent. The same could be said for other religions, but its even worse that it happens in Christianity since Christianity is true, and since the Bible teaches against this sort of thing.

  16. #14
    I really can spell pacifism. Typing it correctly is difficult.

    I don't care who said it. It is not accurate to paint all Christians with the same broad brush. Christians are not necessarily or even mostly warmongers. Complacency happens inside faith and outside.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    I really can spell pacifism. Typing it correctly is difficult.

    I don't care who said it. It is not accurate to paint all Christians with the same broad brush. Christians are not necessarily or even mostly warmongers. Complacency happens inside faith and outside.
    How in the world are you saying that Chuck Baldwin, a Christian pastor, is painting all Christians with a broad brush? Do you think Chuck is talking about himself here? He's making a generalization, a generalization that is unfortunately all too accurate in this country. Of course, a lot of non-Christians are war hawks to, and there are certainly Christians who are not war hawks (I am one) but a lot of churches are completely deceived, and since God is supposed to be their highest authority, its remarkably inconsistent with their stated worldviews.

  18. #16
    Fantastic article by Chuck.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Fantastic article by Chuck.
    I agree.

  21. #18

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    I have yet to see any evidence that US based pro-war Christians/Evangelical Christiana/Christian Zionists losing sleep over killings of brown arab race Christians in mideast?
    If anyone has, share.
    If they did, they wouldn't be pro-war or zionist.

    That said, I am an evangelical, and you should know where I stand on this by now. So I don't think its quite fair to throw evangelical in with the rest, there are a lot of evangelical warmongers but some of us are anti-war too.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    If they did, they wouldn't be pro-war or zionist.

    That said, I am an evangelical, and you should know where I stand on this by now. So I don't think its quite fair to throw evangelical in with the rest, there are a lot of evangelical warmongers but some of us are anti-war too.
    Agreed, not all Christians are pro-war, I referred specifically to the pro-war in these groups.

    "US based pro-war Christians/Evangelical Christiana/Christian Zionists.."


    Sad reality is that US Churches have been one of the biggest supporters of the unjust and deady Iraq invasion that was based on lies and deceptions. US Churches also have been a major supporter of brutal occupation/massacres of God's children in holyland.

  24. #21
    Christians’ Love Of The Warfare State Is Killing Other Christians
    I guess I just must have missed the part where Jesus fits into all that.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    I guess I just must have missed the part where Jesus fits into all that.
    Somewhere around Matthew Chapter Seven, I think...

    21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven... 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  26. #23
    Agreed, not all Christians are pro-war, I referred specifically to the pro-war in these groups.

    "US based pro-war Christians/Evangelical Christians/Christian Zionists.."


    Sad reality is that US Churches have been one of the biggest supporters of the unjust and deady Iraq invasion that was based on lies and deceptions. US Churches also have been a major supporter of brutal occupation/massacres of God's children in holyland.

    Addeth:




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvO575U-25g

    The so-called “Land Letter”

    The Honorable George W. Bush
    President of the United States of America
    The White House
    Washington, DC 20502
    Dear Mr. President,

    In this decisive hour of our nation’s history we are writing to express our deep appreciation for your bold, courageous, and visionary leadership. Americans everywhere have been inspired by your eloquent and clear articulation of our nation’s highest ideals of freedom and of our resolve to defend that freedom both here and across the globe.
    We believe that your policies concerning the ongoing international terrorist campaign against America are both right and just. Specifically, we believe that your stated policies concerning Saddam Hussein and his headlong pursuit and development of biochemical and nuclear weapons of mass destruction are prudent and fall well within the time-honored criteria of just war theory as developed by Christian theologians in the late fourth and early fifth centuries A.D.
    First, your stated policy concerning using military force if necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction is a just cause. In just war theory only defensive war is defensible; and if military force is used against Saddam Hussein it will be because he has attacked his neighbors, used weapons of mass destruction against his own people, and harbored terrorists from the Al Qaeda terrorist network that attacked our nation so viciously and violently on September 11, 2001. As you stated in your address to the U.N. September 12th:
    “We can harbor no illusions. . . . Saddam Hussein attacked Iran in 1980 and Kuwait in 1990. He’s fired ballistic missiles at Iran and Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Israel. His regime once ordered the killing of every person between the ages of 15 and 70 in certain Kurdish villages in Northern Iraq. He has gassed many Iranians and forty Iraqi villages.”
    Disarming and neutralizing Saddam Hussein is to defend freedom and freedom-loving people from state-sponsored terror and death.
    Second, just war must have just intent. Our nation does not intend to destroy, conquer, or exploit Iraq. As you declared forthrightly in your speech to the U.N. General Assembly:
    “The United States has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. . . . Liberty for the Iraqi people is a great moral cause, and a great strategic goal. The people of Iraq deserve it; the security of all nations requires it. Free societies do not intimidate through cruelty and conquest, and open societies do not threaten the world with mass murder. The United States supports political and economic liberty in a unified Iraq.”
    This is clearly a just and noble intent.
    Third, just war may only be commenced as a last resort. As you so clearly enumerated before the U.N., Saddam Hussein has for more than a decade ignored Security Council resolutions or defied them while breaking virtually every agreement
    Into which he has entered. He stands convicted by his own record as a brutal dictator who cannot be trusted to abide by any agreement he makes. And while he prevaricates and obfuscates, he continues to obtain and develop the weapons of mass destruction which he will use to terrorize the world community of nations.
    The world has been waiting for more than a decade for the Iraqi regime to fulfill its agreement to destroy all of its weapons of mass destruction, to cease producing them or the long-range missiles to deliver them in the future, and to allow thorough and rigorous inspections to verify their compliance. They have not, and will not, do so and any further delay in forcing the regime’s compliance would be reckless irresponsibility in the face of grave and growing danger.
    Fourth, just war requires authorization by legitimate authority. We believe it was wise and prudent for you to go before the U.N. General Assembly and ask the U.N. Security Council to enforce its own resolutions. However, as American citizens we believe that, however helpful a U.N. Security Council vote might be, the legitimate authority to authorize the use of U.S. military force is the government of the United States and that the authorizing vehicle is a declaration of war or a joint resolution of the Congress.
    When the threat of Soviet nuclear missiles in Cuba presented a grave threat to America’s security, President Kennedy asked for the support of the U.N. and the Organization of American States, but made it clear, with or without their support, those missiles would either be removed by the Soviets, or we would neutralize them ourselves. The American people expected no less from their president and their government.
    Fifth, just war requires limited goals and the resort to armed force must have a reasonable expectation of success. In other words, “total war” is unacceptable and the war’s goals must be achievable. We believe your stated policies for disarming the murderous Iraqi dictator and destroying his weapons of mass destruction, while liberating the Iraqi people for his cruel and barbarous grip, more than meet those criteria.
    Sixth, just war theory requires noncombatant immunity. We are confident that our government, unlike Hussein, will not target civilians and will do all that it can to minimize noncombatant casualties.
    Seventh, just war theory requires the question of proportionality be addressed. Will the human cost of the armed conflict to both sides be proportionate to the stated objectives and goals? Does the good gained by resort to armed conflict justify the cost of lives lost and bodies maimed? We believe that the cost of not dealing with this threat now will only succeed in greatly increasing the cost in human lives and suffering when an even more heavily armed and dangerous Saddam Hussein must be confronted at some date in the not too distant future. We believe that every day of delay significantly increases the risk of far greater human suffering in the future than acting now would entail.
    How different and how much safer would the history of the twentieth century have been had the allies confronted Hitler when he illegally reoccupied the Rhineland in 1936 in clear violation of Germany’s treaty agreements? It is at least possible that tens of millions of the lives lost in World War II might not have been lost if the Allies had enforced treaty compliance then instead of appeasing a murderous dictator.
    We are extremely grateful that we have a president who has learned the costly lessons of the twentieth century and who is determined to lead America and the world to a far different and better future in the twenty first century. As you told the world’s leaders at the U.N.:
    “We must choose between a world of fear and a world of progress. We cannot stand by and do nothing while dangers gather. We must stand up for our security, and for the permanent rights and hopes of mankind. By heritage and by choice, the United States of America will make that stand.”
    Mr. President, we make that stand with you. In so doing, while we cannot speak for all of our constituents, we are supremely confident that we are voicing the convictions and concerns of the great preponderance of those we are privileged to serve.
    Please know that we join tens of millions of our fellow Americans in praying for you and your family daily.
    Sincerely Yours,
    Richard D. Land, D.Phil.
    President
    Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission
    Southern Baptist Convention
    Dr. Chuck Colson
    Chairman
    Prison Fellowship Ministries
    Dr. Bill Bright
    Founder and Chairman
    Campus Crusade for Christ International
    D. James Kennedy, Ph.D.
    President
    Coral Ridge Ministries Media, Inc.
    Dr. Carl D. Herbster
    President
    American Association of Christian Schools





    1
    On Apr 9, 2007, at 10:02pm, Steve Hays wrote:


    Does Dr. Land have plans to apologize for this false and unChristlike guidance? First, it seems strange for people who claim to be Biblical to appeal to Augustine and later writers for principles of behavior—since there was apparently no New Testament basis for such an argument. Second, the most fundamental assumption of this argument—that the invasion of Iraq was necessary to defend the US—turned out to be entirely false. Consequently, even by 4th/5th century standards this argument falls apart. Dr. Land and the Ethics ... Commission(!) of the Southern Baptist Convention endorsed an invasion as “just war” which was not “just war.” Dr. Land has left the the church with blood on its hands. Will it take the SBC as long to repent of this stance as it took it to repent of its position on civil rights?
    Sincerely in Christ,
    Steve Hays


    http://erlc.com/article/the-so-called-land-letter





    The End of Days for Iraq's Christians
    Foreign Policy (blog)-Aug 8, 2014



    Militant takeover of Iraq's largest Christian city, mountaintop siege ...
    In-Depth-Fox News-Aug 7, 2014




  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Agreed, not all Christians are pro-war, I referred specifically to the pro-war in these groups.

    "US based pro-war Christians/Evangelical Christiana/Christian Zionists.."


    Sad reality is that US Churches have been one of the biggest supporters of the unjust and deady Iraq invasion that was based on lies and deceptions. US Churches also have been a major supporter of brutal occupation/massacres of God's children in holyland.
    'OK, fair enough and you are completely correct. As an evangelical myself, this is something I've expressed frustration with multiple times on these boards. I'm frustrated to. Some of us completely oppose this nonsense, though

    BTW: It is primarily dispensationalists who think that Israel is still the Holy Land and that the Jews are all God's chosen people as a nation. This often (though still not always) leads to a belief that Israel has a right to all of Palestine's land and that Israel is the defensive party in that war. Covenant theology, which I believe is more Biblical, teaches that all who believe in Christ are God's chosen people, regardless of nation. Some of these people still support Israel, but those who do don't do so for theological reasons.



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  29. #25

  30. #26

  31. #27
    Great article by Chuck Baldwin! I am not at all surprised by what has happened. Back in 2004 I read how after the "liberation" of Iraq hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Christians fled the country. Most of them headed to Syria.....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/05/in...t/05syria.html
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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