Discovering my roots from the Island of Patmos to Tinos

[Terry1]

Thought I'd share an interesting study and research of my Greek roots and the amazing fact that surround them regarding the Biblical history of the Greek Island of Patmos.

My sister and I have ventured to seek out our Greek roots that we always thought began and ended on the small island of Tinos, Greece. Amazingly, we've managed to trace them back through their history and travels that originate in Patmos, to the other island of Lemnos and onto Tinos, which is where my grandfather lived until immigrating to America.

The most amazing fact is that my Grandfather's last name is "Patniotes". We didn't realize that the key to finding a more detailed history was not in the genealogy itself, but in the name itself.

We did not know just until recently that there is a place called "Patniotes" on the island of Lemnos, Greece. The reason this place was called "Patniotes" is because they all originated from the other island of Patmos. This is very ancient history and as to how far back it goes--my sister and I have failed to track it that far, but we are sure that we have found where our Greek ancestors originally came from.

The reason this fascinated me was because of the Biblical history of Patmos itself, which is where John of Revelation wrote the book.

Here is an article that was written about Patniotes and a bit of history to go with it. It's written in Greek, but I've loaded the English translation. http://translate.google.com/translat...I7GZAB_enUS524

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patmos http://www.bibleplaces.com/patmos.htm

[TER]

Your ancestors chose a beautiful island to live in!





Here are pictures of the cave of St. John, were he beheld his vision of the Apocalypse:

[heavenlyboy34]

Neat thread!

[Terry1]

Neat thread!

They were all Greek Orthodox HB. I still have my Grandfathers birth certificate that my Mother held onto for years. It's all in Greek and is done in beautiful ornate colors of the EOC.

I was really excited to find that there is actually a place named after my Grandfather and the fact that the spelling is *exact* and this is something that's very rare with the name "Patniotes", because I've seen the same name spelled differently and often wondered if that was mistake on the part of the census takers too.

I long to visit the Greek islands some day--I just don't know when or if I'll ever find the time. My vacation is pretty much shot because I have to nurse my husband back from his surgery during that time. It's just something that was unavoidable. The islands are beautiful aren't they and so much history there we can relate to.

[Petar]

It is beyond incredible when you consider how much influence the mad ramblings of one cave dwelling hermit were able to have over civilization...

It's a magical history to be tied to somehow...

[Terry1]

It is beyond incredible when you consider how much influence the mad ramblings of one cave dwelling hermit were able to have over civilization...

It's a magical history to be tied to somehow...

You could be talking about one of my ancestors.

[RJB]

If you look closely, that is Calvinist religious artwork. In fact, I read somewhere that a Calvinist sect that traces their lineage back to the apostles (I believe they are called OTCers) has maintained that cave for the last 2000 years.

Here are pictures of the cave of St. John, were he beheld his vision of the Apocalypse:

[TER]

You know, it's funny RJB, if you go to all these historical Christian sites which we read about in the Scriptures, they mysteriously all look pretty similar and have Orthodox or Catholic churches built on top of them. I wonder if that is all just a big coincidence...

[Terry1]

If you look closely, that is Calvinist religious artwork. In fact, I read somewhere that a Calvinist sect that traces their lineage back to the apostles (I believe they are called OTCers) has maintained that cave for the last 2000 years.

Wow! Just look at all of those beautiful icons too.

[RJB]

You know, it's funny RJB, if you go to all these historical Christian sites which we read about in the Scriptures, they mysteriously all look pretty similar and have Orthodox or Catholic churches built on top of them. I wonder if that is all just a big coincidence...

I wonder...

It is awesome (such an over used word but actually fitting in this case) to see those pictures of that cave and think of what was revealed and written 2000 years ago, and the prayers that were said in that humble place. I can even smell the 2000 years worth of incense in the stone walls just by looking at the pictures.

[TER]

I wonder...

It is awesome (such an over used word but actually fitting in this case) to see those pictures of that cave and think of what was revealed and written 2000 years ago, and the prayers that were said in that humble place. I can even smell the 2000 years worth of incense in the stone walls just by looking at the pictures.

Sacred space indeed my friend.

[Nang]

I wonder...

It is awesome (such an over used word but actually fitting in this case) to see those pictures of that cave and think of what was revealed and written 2000 years ago, and the prayers that were said in that humble place. I can even smell the 2000 years worth of incense in the stone walls just by looking at the pictures.

It is doubtful incense or any formal worship occurred there . . John was incarcerated and imprisoned on the ("sterile") isle of Patmos amongst other criminals.

At least according to historical & traditional hand-me-down facts, such was the sole purpose of the island during John's lifetime.

[Nang]

Wow! Just look at all of those beautiful icons too.

The icons are new . . and not from John's tenancy.

[RJB]

It is doubtful incense or any formal worship occurred there . . John was incarcerated and imprisoned on the ("sterile") isle of Patmos amongst other criminals.

In 2000 years, I'm sure something has happened between now and then. This is where John was taken up to Heaven on the Lord's day and witnessed Heavenly worship.

[Nang]

In 2000 years, I'm sure something has happened between now and then. This is where John was taken up to Heaven on the Lord's day and witnessed Heavenly worship.

So? You believe in shrines?

[TER]

So? You believe in shrines?

Do you believe a place can be holy?

[RJB]

So? You believe in shrines?

There is a picture of one in this thread. Of course I believe in their existence.

[RJB]

Do you believe a place can be holy?

Do you know if they celebrate the Liturgy in the cave, TER?

[TER]

Do you know if they celebrate the Liturgy in the cave, TER?

Absolutely. Probably have done so for 20 centuries.

[RJB]

Absolutely. Probably have done so for 20 centuries.

Then it is a holy place, indeed.

[TER]

from a site I just found of a blogger who visited Patmos and celebrated the Divine Liturgy there...


Patmos, Holy Island of St John’s Apocalypse.

Patmos Greece.

Patmos is an extraordinarily spiritual place and it renewed within me the thirst for God that I experienced as a much younger man, not that I had ever abandoned such desire. However it was if time had stood still and I was young again full of faith and love for Christ. It was an overwhelming awareness of God that began the moment I entered the Cave of the Apocalypse. This was where the Beloved Disciple; John, received the Revelation (Apocalypse) of Jesus Christ, that God gave him to show unto his servants of things which must shortly come to pass.

But it was not only the Apocalypse (Book of Revelation) that was significant. The central message of St John’s Gospel hit me with renewed power. Despite all that militates against faith in to-day’s world, it is well nigh impossible to banish the kind of faith that St John speaks of in his Gospel. He speaks about it from the heart, and in all the years of priesthood I have come to realize that the most difficult thing in the world is to speak of what is simplest and most essential. This is of course where the Gospels score over intellectual and rational thought.

The liturgy was in full progress as I entered the Cave. The priest had reached the moment when he invokes the Holy Spirit over the gifts of bread and wine that they might become the Body and Blood of Christ. I was tired, hot and sweating after the long climb up to the Cave, yet the moment I entered it, all thoughts of physical discomfort were far from my mind. I was overwhelmed by the sense of the holy. Slowly it dawned on me that I was being acted upon and taken into another dimension that interpenetrated this world yet transcended it with an all knowing wisdom…call it the kingdom of God, impossible to prove, but equally impossible to deny.

continues at this link...

[Nang]

from a site I just found of a blogger who visited Patmos and celebrated the Divine Liturgy there...


Patmos, Holy Island of St John’s Apocalypse.

Patmos Greece.

Patmos is an extraordinarily spiritual place and it renewed within me the thirst for God that I experienced as a much younger man, not that I had ever abandoned such desire. However it was if time had stood still and I was young again full of faith and love for Christ. It was an overwhelming awareness of God that began the moment I entered the Cave of the Apocalypse. This was where the Beloved Disciple; John, received the Revelation (Apocalypse) of Jesus Christ, that God gave him to show unto his servants of things which must shortly come to pass.

But it was not only the Apocalypse (Book of Revelation) that was significant. The central message of St John’s Gospel hit me with renewed power. Despite all that militates against faith in to-day’s world, it is well nigh impossible to banish the kind of faith that St John speaks of in his Gospel. He speaks about it from the heart, and in all the years of priesthood I have come to realize that the most difficult thing in the world is to speak of what is simplest and most essential. This is of course where the Gospels score over intellectual and rational thought.

The liturgy was in full progress as I entered the Cave. The priest had reached the moment when he invokes the Holy Spirit over the gifts of bread and wine that they might become the Body and Blood of Christ. I was tired, hot and sweating after the long climb up to the Cave, yet the moment I entered it, all thoughts of physical discomfort were far from my mind. I was overwhelmed by the sense of the holy. Slowly it dawned on me that I was being acted upon and taken into another dimension that interpenetrated this world yet transcended it with an all knowing wisdom…call it the kingdom of God, impossible to prove, but equally impossible to deny.

continues at this link...

Patmos . . . the isle where criminals, including saints of God, were incarcerated for their faith.

Nothing "holy" about it . . . saying so, is likened to claiming Alchatraz is holy because of the "bird man" being jailed there.

[TER]

Patmos . . . the isle where criminals, including saints of God, were incarcerated for their faith.

Nothing "holy" about it . . . saying so, is likened to claiming Alchatraz is holy because of the "bird man" being jailed there.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Patmos is a very holy island, and very beautiful, especially this time of year.

[Nang]

I'm sorry you feel that way. Patmos is a very holy island, and very beautiful, especially this time of year.

Your earthly opinion, only.

Patmos was set aside as being "sterile, and unproductive," and therefore declared unfit, except to be a place to incarcerate criminals of all sorts.

So what is "holy" and "beautiful" about the Apostle John being exiled in punishment for his Christian witness, to such a God-forsaken place?

[RJB]

Your earthly opinion, only.

Patmos was set aside as being "sterile, and unproductive," and therefore declared unfit, except to be a place to incarcerate criminals of all sorts.

So what is "holy" and "beautiful" about the Apostle John being exiled in punishment for his Christian witness, to such a God-forsaken place?

Same as how the cross (a torture device) became a symbol of freedom in Christ. On this island, God revealed the Apocalypse to St. John. There can be joy in suffering as we shoulder the cross our savior asks us to bear. You need to see beauty in the gifts that God has given.

[Nang]

Same as how the cross (a torture device) became a symbol of freedom in Christ. On this island, God revealed the Apocalypse to St. John. There can be joy in suffering as we shoulder the cross our savior asks us to bear. You need to see beauty in the gifts that God has given.

I certainly do not deny the revelation given to John on the island of Patmos!

However, the island was a prison-yard for criminals of all kinds, for a long time . . . so why idolize and/or worship the island itself as being holy.

It was the Vision given to John from God, while incarcerated in prison on that island, that is holy. Not the cave in which he suffered!

C'mon . . .

Somehow such foolish, ungodly idolatry must stop . . . for where are any biblical foundations for such superstitious worships to be found?

[RJB]

so why idolize and/or worship the island itself as being holy.

No one is worshipping or idolizing an island, but I think it's very appropriate to celebrate the Divine Liturgy on Earth in the same place where St. John was able to witness it in Heaven.

It was the Vision given to John from God, while incarcerated in prison on that island, that is holy. Not the cave in which he suffered!

Well no kidding, but I've love visiting historic places. You can feel the history in those places...

Somehow such foolish, ungodly idolatry must stop . . . for where are any biblical foundations for such superstitious worships to be found?

Like TER I pity you that you must lie to yourself that others worship a cave to make yourself feel better about yourself. You've missed the point and I don't know if you're capable of seeing it. The sad thing is that it is probably intentional on your part.

[Nang]

No one is worshipping or idolizing an island,

They are not?

"Sacred space indeed my friend. " TER

[TER]

Your earthly opinion, only.

Patmos was set aside as being "sterile, and unproductive," and therefore declared unfit, except to be a place to incarcerate criminals of all sorts.

So what is "holy" and "beautiful" about the Apostle John being exiled in punishment for his Christian witness, to such a God-forsaken place?

Well, first off, the island is absolutely stunningly beautiful. Have you seen the pictures?

Secondly, it is holy because St. John lived there and the Holy Spirit resided in him. Now, there are many holy churches including the one built in the cave where he had his vision.

[TER]

They are not?

"Sacred space indeed my friend. " TER

Nang, we do not worship the island, or the saint. I am sorry you still cannot understand that. We venerate and respect them because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in them.