And so the character assasination of Cliven Bundy Begins!!!!!

[KurtBoyer25L]

Obviously, we all have our misgivings about Bundy's statements because we know the question he is raising is highly stigmatized, and yet none of us want to actually give up our status as a racially sensitive person by looking like a guy who just stepped out of a time machine from the 1950s South.

At the heart of it, though, I think every reasonable person on this board will admit to themselves (not out loud) that what Cliven said was correct and not meant to be racist. The problem is that you'll never, EVER convince Boobus of that.

As a reasonable person, I asked myself, "Do I believe that those colored/negro/cotton-pickers are all in jail with their women having abortions & being bored because they never learned how to pick cotton?" Not only is the answer a resounding "no, wtf?" but I'm offended by the syntax itself. All people are individuals, and there are plenty of white people getting federal $ and/or having abortions in Nevada. I also don't believe I should attempt to speak for negros, I mean black people in this way, whether they were better off as slaves than they are now. If there's a good point to be made about the welfare state within the overall stink of Bundy's remarks, it's being better stated by other people. I can defend their views w/o defending a creep at the same time.

[AuH20]

"how destructive welfare has been to the black community."

There are more whites on welfare than other races. Should they be slaves too? Or better yet "indentured servants?"

The black community was beta tested first. Now we're getting a taste of dependency. Yes, we have a major problem in the white community with welfare benefits. This isn't exactly a secret.

[KurtBoyer25L]

Yesterday I had to explain to a bunch of progressives why protecting endangered species leads to their extinction. That was really easy.

I guess I should thank the NYT for giving me a more challenging debate topic for today.

OT, how does that work?

[phill4paul]

[B]William Norman Grigg: For Progressives, "Thoughtcrime: is Worse than Mass Murder

Damn, I sure love some Will Grigg. Masterful. Get him on the Boobus box.

[cajuncocoa]

As a reasonable person, I asked myself, "Do I believe that those colored/negro/cotton-pickers are all in jail with their women having abortions & being bored because they never learned how to pick cotton?" Not only is the answer a resounding "no, wtf?" but I'm offended by the syntax itself. All people are individuals, and there are plenty of white people getting federal $ and/or having abortions in Nevada. I also don't believe I should attempt to speak for negros, I mean black people in this way, whether they were better off as slaves than they are now. If there's a good point to be made about the welfare state within the overall stink of Bundy's remarks, it's being better stated by other people. I can defend their views w/o defending a creep at the same time.

None of this has anything to do with the main issue regarding the Bundy Ranch. Even people who hold "outrageous views" deserve to have their rights protected. The media sought to distract people with this, and it looks like they're succeeding.

[phill4paul]

Jason Bullock is on the phone with Alex Jones right now from the Bundy Ranch. He is part of the security for Mr. Bundy. He has been at the ranch on and off for two weeks and now is definitely staying for the long haul. He said one of the reasons he came out in support of Mr. Bundy was because of the divide and conquer that goes on and he is sick of it. This is why he is standing in solidarity with the Bundy Family and any family who is being railroaded by the feds.

Oh I forgot to mention--he is black.

Then Mr. Bullock needs to become a PR spokesman regarding this. Not all battles are fought with bullets. And I'm not talking AJ. I'm talking MSM.

[ClydeCoulter]

Here's the 3:13 version.
Uh, he's still using the term "colored" too - also considered respectful at one time.
Very un-PC word usage, but by no means hateful.

It's just exactly what I thought. They are framing him by taking his words out of context.

He's not racist! He cares about the blacks and Mexicans, just listen to the whole video.

[Deborah K]

As a reasonable person, I asked myself, "Do I believe that those colored/negro/cotton-pickers are all in jail with their women having abortions & being bored because they never learned how to pick cotton?" Not only is the answer a resounding "no, wtf?" but I'm offended by the syntax itself. All people are individuals, and there are plenty of white people getting federal $ and/or having abortions in Nevada. I also don't believe I should attempt to speak for negros, I mean black people in this way, whether they were better off as slaves than they are now. If there's a good point to be made about the welfare state within the overall stink of Bundy's remarks, it's being better stated by other people. I can defend their views w/o defending a creep at the same time.

Again, the man is old and he used old terminology and old analogies. How can you, on the one hand, tolerate the vicious comments and racism against whites on a constant basis, as an attempt to peddle victimhood, and not tolerate an old man's attempt at trying to ask the question of whether poor blacks in this country are better off as government slaves than they were as plantation slaves, because that's the crux of his comment, inarticulate though it was. He didn't call for their hanging, or for slavery to be re-instituted, ffs. The man is practicing the long-held standard of civil disobedience. He's not an orator, he's not politically correct. So, we should abandon him now?

[Lucille]

The full recording was posted by someone on their FB page:

http://bambuser.com/v/4549915

I wondered why it came up. He was talking about the Watts riots:

"What I am testifying to you is, I was in the Watts riots. What I seen was civil disturbance. People are not happy. People are thinking they don't have their freedoms and they don't have these things. And they didn't have them! We've progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and we sure don't want to go back. We sure don't want these colored people to have to go back to that point, and we sure don't want these Mexican people to go back to that point. And we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies and do it in a peaceful way."

After which came the infamous quote.

[KurtBoyer25L]

You can't take a statement completely out of context like you have without considering the entire issue, to do so is just plain ignorant. You cannot ignore the nuances surrounding this issue. I realize some people will jump ship over this. As far as I'm concerned, you're Sunshine Patriots.

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

[cajuncocoa]

A comment (and my retort) from one of the Glenn Beck articles:

“It is hard, because we believe the government is out of control,” Beck said on his radio program. “We believe the government is growing as an oppressor. We believe the west should have their land. We believe that the EPA and the BLM is putting their boot on the necks of of farmers and ranchers. … But you have to know who you’re standing with.”

No, you only need to know what you're standing FOR.

[cajuncocoa]

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

Still has nothing to do with the main reason Bundy is in the news.

[pcosmar]

The black community was beta tested first. Now we're getting a taste of dependency. Yes, we have a major problem in the white community with welfare benefits. This isn't exactly a secret.

No they weren't..
The Indians were first..
They took the land and confined them to reservations,, and handed them a bottle.

Welfare was run on Government reservations first.. it came to cities second.

[AuH20]

A comment (and my retort) from one of the Glenn Beck articles:


No, you only need to know what you're standing FOR.

And Glenn Beck stands with Jon Huntsman Sr. That's all you need to know.

[cajuncocoa]

“It is hard, because we believe the government is out of control,” Beck said on his radio program. “We believe the government is growing as an oppressor. We believe the west should have their land. We believe that the EPA and the BLM is putting their boot on the necks of of farmers and ranchers. … But you have to know who you’re standing with.”

Same type of character assassination he did to Debra Medina.

[Deborah K]

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

You are caught in the Political Correctness trap. Your worldview looks through those lenses.

[cajuncocoa]

I hope this puts to rest the "Glenn Beck is coming around" comments for 2014.

[squarepusher]

Cliven Bundy is on Alex Jones right now and he emphatically denies the "pickin' cotton" remark. NYT is making things up. He has a black militia man guarding his house right now. He is not a racists. The man sits at his dinner table.

heres the video

[donnay]

heres the video

Not the same time frame as the NYT interview.

[ClydeCoulter]

heres the video

[Out Of Context Video Removed]

NO, Here's the video in proper context:

Here's the 3:13 version.
Uh, he's still using the term "colored" too - also considered respectful at one time.
Very un-PC word usage, but by no means hateful.

[AuH20]

You are caught in the Political Correctness trap. Your worldview looks through those lenses.

Emotions betray. Logic never does. The logical conclusion being that the federal government needs to smash this man's reputation before they roll in with their calvacade.

[phill4paul]

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

"the clearly offensive part." WAS taken out of context. Intentionally. Unfortunately, one has to sculpt any public statement down to the single sentence or word. This is the world we live in. The world of PR is a bitch and that is why millions are spent on it.

[Deborah K]

If anyone thinks this man is a racist, they're either PC cowards, or they have an agenda.

[thoughtomator]

Guys, stop going for the bait. This guy could be an Adolph Hitler worshipper for all I care - the issue in this case is the feds conducting military operations against US citizens.

[Antischism]

What a $#@!ing moron, as well as those here who are rationalizing his comments. It's no wonder why the "heartless/white privileged" stereotype is applied to libertarians.

Does welfare do more harm than good? Yes. Is it worse than physical bondage? No, not even close.

Don't lecture the anarchists on how to frame their arguments because we're somehow hurting the advancement of libertarianism and Rand's 2016 election hopes when you're defending Bundy's beliefs that completely contradict everything you claim to be fighting for.

Now if the NYT lied and it turns out that Bundy never made these comments, fine.

Said everything I wanted to say.

[pcosmar]

heres the video

Nope,, that is a cut,,out of context..

The video of his words was posted. The full version.

[Deborah K]

Guys, stop going for the bait. This guy could be an Adolph Hitler worshipper for all I care - the issue in this case is the feds conducting military operations against US citizens.

Come on. You've been here long enough. You know how this works. In order to win, they need a character assassination.

[AuH20]

These are the 4 steps.

1. Propaganda
2. Demoralization of the enemy
3. Infiltration of enemy made easier through this fracturing
4. Mobilization

Bundy better get more men beause this is a telltale sign of their intentions.

[Lucille]

Harry Reid Issues Statement On "Hateful Racist" Cliven Bundy
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...t-cliven-bundy

[pcosmar]

It ain't Over!
Harry Reid

All I need to know.