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Thread: Rand Paul remarks on abortion

  1. #1

    Rand Paul remarks on abortion

    his comments about abortion at the UofChicago event yesterday are getting some attention on some of the conservative websites today. Here is AllahPundit's take on what he said:

    So forget the Mother Jones piece. What about this exchange with Axelrod, though? MFP headlines the clip, “Rand Paul: Relax, I’m not going to ban abortion” — which does seem a fair interpretation of what Paul’s saying. (Maybe it’d be fairer to say, “Rand Paul: Relax, I’m not going to ban abortion anytime soon.”) He notes that he believes that life begins at conception and points out, correctly, that the public takes a middle-ground approach to abortion in most polls. They support giving women a right to terminate in the first trimester, oppose giving them that right in the third trimester, and usually take a skeptical “if necessary” view of the second trimester. If anything, says Paul, current law is far too biased towards the pro-abortion view since it effectively allows for terminations in the third trimester too, which most Americans believe should be illegal. Axelrod, though, keeps pressing: What does that mean we should or could expect from President Paul once in office? Paul’s answer: Not much. Certainly not an all-out ban; there’s still much persuading to be done before most Americans come around to that view. Presumably, if public opinion changes while he’s in office, he’d consider a ban. If it doesn’t, presumably he wouldn’t. Maybe he’d try at least to bring the law in line with opinion by banning terminations in the third trimester, but judge for yourself at the end here whether you think he’d push on that.

    You can see what he’s trying to do with this answer. He’s pitching himself as a “different kind of Republican,” someone who can appeal to young voters and minorities in a way that no one else in the party can. One splashy way to do that is to position himself as a pro-life but modest, incrementalist candidate on abortion; not only will it make the left’s “war on women” demagoguery a bit harder but it might also reassure libertarians, not all of whom are as pro-life as the Pauls are, that he hasn’t completely sold out to conservatives in running for the GOP nomination. Meanwhile, though, he’ll be lambasted for this by whoever ends up as the social-conservative champion in the primaries — maybe Huckabee, maybe Santorum, maybe (most dangerously of all for Paul) Ted Cruz. If abortion is morally equivalent to slavery, as many social cons believe, then Paul’s approach is intolerable. He’d have a moral duty to work with the legislature and the courts to ban it, whatever the political consequences. Paul can sustain an attack like that from Huck or Santorum, I think, because they’re niche candidates who aren’t competing with him for the wider grassroots conservative vote. I’m not so sure he can sustain it from Cruz, who is competing. The question for Cruz is, how forcefully does he want to push the “ban at all costs” position? It might give him an opening against Paul in the primaries but it’d also make things easier for Democrats in attacking him in the general. Paul is right about the polling on this. It’s purely a question of how the GOP wants to deal with the reality of it.
    more at link:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/2...ded-otherwise/
    Last edited by jct74; 04-23-2014 at 04:26 PM.



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  3. #2
    I hope he will truly try to do something on the abortion issue when in the White House. Stopping murder at home and stopping murder abroad should be inseparable.
    Stop believing stupid things

  4. #3
    It doesn't matter what Rand says about abortion because nothing is going to be done about it.

    In George W. Bush's first term, he had a GOP majority in the House and Senate, plus a majority of conservatives on the bench of the SCOTUS. If they failed to overturn Roe v. Wade in W's first term, they aren't really serious about it. They were more interested in killing more people overseas.

  5. #4
    He's going to have to give a better answer than that in the GOP primaries for me to be able to fully support him. This isn't a minor issue.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    He's going to have to give a better answer than that in the GOP primaries for me to be able to fully support him. This isn't a minor issue.
    What, in your mind, would constitute "a better answer than that"?

  7. #6
    I love that answer, its the most sensible way of addressing the tricky abortion issue which will satisfies most of the people pro life without frighting anyone on the pro choice crowd. I just wish he would have reiterated that he will try and end all public funding for abortions. Oh no, its best he did not even say that cos I am sure the media will dig up the story of a poor, minority teenagers who was raped and then found out that he needed abortion to save her life and they will use it to paint him as racist and hater of women and the poor

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I love that answer, its the most sensible way of addressing the tricky abortion issue which will satisfies most of the people pro life without frighting anyone on the pro choice crowd. I just wish he would have reiterated that he will try and end all public funding for abortions. Oh no, its best he did not even say that cos I am sure the media will dig up the story of a poor, minority teenagers who was raped and then found out that he needed abortion to save her life and they will use it to paint him as racist and hater of women and the poor
    Basically this. When in office, I think it would be very sensible to push legislation banning abortion past the point of viability, but I don't think it's a good idea to campaign on.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by menciusmoldbug View Post
    What, in your mind, would constitute "a better answer than that"?
    Actually giving a pro life answer to the question, that all human life should be protected, not just babies who are in the 3rd trimester.



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  11. #9
    Whatever your real thoughts on abortion and rape, the less said about it publicly, the better. No Republican has ever successfully been able to talk about abortion and rape without sounding like an uneducated bigot.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by menciusmoldbug View Post
    What, in your mind, would constitute "a better answer than that"?
    That's easy. Randal should say that as president he will get a secret court to declare all abortion doctors as domestic terrorists and order the FBI to arrest them all and throw them in Guantanamo.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Actually giving a pro life answer to the question, that all human life should be protected, not just babies who are in the 3rd trimester.
    What was not pro life about his answer?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    What was not pro life about his answer?
    The pro life position is that human life should be defended from the moment of conception. His answer was that while he's personally pro life, he doesn't support passing a law to ban abortion. Just going by what he said in this interview, I have to conclude that he's now pro choice on the abortion issue. I just hope that he clarifies and takes a different position in the future. Otherwise, unfortunately, I may just have to get out of politics all together and not support any more political candidates.

  15. #13
    I think Rand's answer makes a lot of sense. "Life begins at conception" is, right now, something someone believes or does not believe. I happen to believe it, BUT....it would have to be a proven fact for public opinion to accept an all-out ban.

    It's a classic wedge issue anyway; nothing will change.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    It doesn't matter what Rand says about abortion because nothing is going to be done about it.

    In George W. Bush's first term, he had a GOP majority in the House and Senate, plus a majority of conservatives on the bench of the SCOTUS. If they failed to overturn Roe v. Wade in W's first term, they aren't really serious about it. They were more interested in killing more people overseas.
    Republicans aren't serious about it as a whole, but Ron Paul was.

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I love that answer, its the most sensible way of addressing the tricky abortion issue which will satisfies most of the people pro life without frighting anyone on the pro choice crowd. I just wish he would have reiterated that he will try and end all public funding for abortions. Oh no, its best he did not even say that cos I am sure the media will dig up the story of a poor, minority teenagers who was raped and then found out that he needed abortion to save her life and they will use it to paint him as racist and hater of women and the poor
    Nothing will satisfy the pro-abortion crowd. In 2012, Mitt Romney, who supported funding for Planned Parenthood and clearly had no plans of changing the status quo, was painted by the media as a hardcore culture warrior who wanted to ban abortion altogether. If they attacked Romney, they'll attack Paul, who actually has a pro-life voting record.
    Stop believing stupid things

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    The pro life position is that human life should be defended from the moment of conception. His answer was that while he's personally pro life, he doesn't support passing a law to ban abortion. Just going by what he said in this interview, I have to conclude that he's now pro choice on the abortion issue. I just hope that he clarifies and takes a different position in the future. Otherwise, unfortunately, I may just have to get out of politics all together and not support any more political candidates.
    Did he say he doesn't support passing law to ban abortion? It seems like he's saying only a middle ground can be achieved here.

  18. #16
    I agree. Ron was the most pro life candidate since who knows when.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Republicans aren't serious about it as a whole, but Ron Paul was.



    Nothing will satisfy the pro-abortion crowd. In 2012, Mitt Romney, who supported funding for Planned Parenthood and clearly had no plans of changing the status quo, was painted by the media as a hardcore culture warrior who wanted to ban abortion altogether. If they attacked Romney, they'll attack Paul, who actually has a pro-life voting record.
    "I am commonly opposed to those who modestly assume the rank of champions of liberty, and make a very patriotic noise about the people. It is the stale artifice which has duped the world a thousand times, and yet, though detected, it is still successful."

    --Fisher Ames (1789)



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  20. #17
    There is absolutely no way Paul was more pro-life than Santorum.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    His answer was that while he's personally pro life, he doesn't support passing a law to ban abortion. Just going by what he said in this interview, I have to conclude that he's now pro choice on the abortion issue.
    That is a flat out lie or misinterpretation of what he said. Did you actually listen to his answer?
    Here it starts at: 42:06


    He is talking about the public and societies current status. He doesn't say he wouldn't support such a law,just that isn't going to happen without persuasion. So he supports moving the ball forward and ending the no exceptions for life current status.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    Did he say he doesn't support passing law to ban abortion? It seems like he's saying only a middle ground can be achieved here.
    He said that banning abortion is an extreme position, having the law where it is now is an extreme position, and he's somewhere in the middle between those two extremes. He's going to be labeled as a bigger flip flopper than Mitt Romney if he keeps this up. He's on record in 2010 as filling out a survey from the Kentucky Right to Life where he said that he supports a ban on abortion without exceptions for rape and incest. He'll fight on spending issues and civil liberties and take unpopular positions like abolishing the Department of Education, but he's afraid to take an unpopular position on an issue like abortion. That just makes me think that he's not serious at all or doesn't care at all about the abortion issue.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    That is a flat out lie or misinterpretation of what he said. Did you actually listen to his answer?
    Here it starts at: 42:06
    No, I heard what he said. He said that there are two extremes, and that banning abortion with no exceptions is one of those extremes. And ironically, he was on that "extreme" back in 2010 when he filled out a survey from Kentucky Right to Life where he said that he supported banning abortion with no exceptions.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Republicans aren't serious about it as a whole, but Ron Paul was.
    Ron was serious about everything he said. That's why I admire him so much.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    There is absolutely no way Paul was more pro-life than Santorum.
    Santorum wasn't more pro-life, just anti-sex.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    No, I heard what he said. He said that there are two extremes, and that banning abortion with no exceptions is one of those extremes. And ironically, he was on that "extreme" back in 2010 when he filled out a survey from Kentucky Right to Life where he said that he supported banning abortion with no exceptions.
    I'm really hoping he is just pandering like with foreign policy.

    It would be really awesome to see Clinton in the Presidential debates talking about how the right to privacy means the right to abortion, and then have Rand Paul slam her for her support of the government's invasion of people's privacy.
    Stop believing stupid things

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Santorum wasn't more pro-life, just anti-sex.

    Ron Paul's exposing of Santorum for voting to fund Planned parenthood was pretty epic, one of the best moments in the debates.
    Stop believing stupid things



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    He said that banning abortion is an extreme position, having the law where it is now is an extreme position, and he's somewhere in the middle between those two extremes. He's going to be labeled as a bigger flip flopper than Mitt Romney if he keeps this up. He's on record in 2010 as filling out a survey from the Kentucky Right to Life where he said that he supports a ban on abortion without exceptions for rape and incest. He'll fight on spending issues and civil liberties and take unpopular positions like abolishing the Department of Education, but he's afraid to take an unpopular position on an issue like abortion. That just makes me think that he's not serious at all or doesn't care at all about the abortion issue.
    The middle ground is more than likely when the mother's life is ask risk. He didn't take the most extreme position in the Kentucky RLF survey. I don't think he's flip-flopping on this position. He does care about the abortion issue. It's just not a major issue.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I'm really hoping he is just pandering like with foreign policy.
    If he is pandering, then that's really stupid, because he has to make it through the GOP primary first. He's acting like he's already running for President in a general election. It makes no sense whatsoever.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    He said that banning abortion is an extreme position, having the law where it is now is an extreme position, and he's somewhere in the middle between those two extremes.
    Another lie. He didn't say HE was somewhere in the middle between those extremes. He said where he thinks the law could end up and where the country is. He says he thinks life begins at the beginning.

    Prove me wrong: give me the timestamp where he says HE is somewhere in the middle.

    He is asked it twice and both times he says the country is in the middle, but his personal beliefs are pro-life from the beginning.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard101 View Post
    There is absolutely no way Paul was more pro-life than Santorum.
    You are wrong, Santorum voted to fund Planned Parenthood. His record was not consistently Pro Life, Ron's was. Ron Paul introduced the Sanctity of Life Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctity_of_Life_Act
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Another lie. He didn't say HE was somewhere in the middle between those extremes. He said where he thinks the law could end up and where the country is. He says he thinks life begins at the beginning.
    So then he was saying that his own views on the issue are extreme?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    So then he was saying that his own views on the issue are extreme?
    YES! It was implied as such and both times he said it, he made a point to reference his religious beliefs. Did you actually listen to it?

    You can say he gave a nonanswer, you can say he dodged the question; but you can't say what you claimed as it is untrue.

    Personally, I think he laid out the gameplan for how pro-life people could actually make some progress on this issue and start getting exceptions made for life.

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