Universalism

[Kevin007]

Most if not all Universalists hold that all mankind will go to heaven despite their various beliefs (or as the Christian universalist camp teaches because of Christ atonement everyone in all the different religions will end up in heaven.) It a very very dangerous teaching. The Bible teaches God is love (1 John 4:8), but God also punishes the sinner, why? Because he hates all who do iniquity. God cannot be reduced to only an infinitely loving God and ignore His other attributes. He is also infinitely just. He must deal with sin because of His nature of being. He must punish the sinner for their sinful work, just as He rewards the saint for their work. God is called a jealous God and wants our affections, but it is not forced. The truth of God's word makes it clear God has provided one way by which we may be saved. That single way is through Jesus' sacrifice. For all who trust in Him, salvation will come. Jesus saves us from the judgment of God upon us due to us because of our sinfulness. The natural consequence of being a sinner is judgment. God will punish the sinner (Hosea 8:13; 9:9) if he does not repent. The one who rejects Jesus does not have forgiveness of sins, and has the wrath of God abiding upon him.


Universalists ignore the clear statements Jesus made that we are already condemned. Jesus saves us from God’s wrath and punishment on sin. Jesus will save all those who receive Him- (John 1:12; Rom. 8:1) only then can they escape the judgment that is to come on sinners.

If everyone is going to be saved, through ANY religion, then no religion sends people to hell and every religion sends them to heaven. If all religions accept the idea of universalism, then all religions are valid and there is no error or lie. As universalism teaches each looks at the other as being valid, only from a different perspective; but all valid.

You may think that this teaching is not so common; but it is and growing. Some believe the final world religion will be a mix of Catholicism/Christianity and Islam, esp. as the AC is revealed, and believers are already raptured up to meet Jesus. Some even think it is similar to what is starting to happen now with Rick Warren and his ilk.

[Natural Citizen]

Well. I don't know about all of that mumbo jumbo, Kev, but I'll tell you this. Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. Every single one. It cannot be contested. You are stardust. And to dust you will return. isms are the product of man's skullduggery.

[Kevin007]

thanks NC. You win the first post award btw, I like science too....

[Brett85]

There are also Christian universalists who believe that all non Christians will go to hell for a period of time and suffer, but after they've paid for their sins, they will accept Christ as their Savior and will be allowed to enter into heaven. I don't know if that view is what you were referring to or not, but that view seems to be growing within Christianity.

[eduardo89]

Universalism is unbiblical and unChristian.

[Kevin007]

Universalism is unbiblical and unChristian.

we agree!

[VIDEODROME]

[Brett85]

I don't believe that either eternal torment or universalism are Biblical. It's unfortunate that all of the backlash against eternal torment has caused people to embrace a theology that's equally unbiblical and even more dangerous.

[Kevin007]

I don't believe that either eternal torment or universalism are Biblical. It's unfortunate that all of the backlash against eternal torment has caused people to embrace a theology that's equally unbiblical and even more dangerous.

good point TC.

[VIDEODROME]

Thinking all unbelievers are saved is more dangerous than thinking all unbelievers are going to Hell?

[Natural Citizen]

How about this. We never ask this. Is Biblicism relevant to universal order? Now, sure, we know that Biblicism is relevant to man's perception of order where his own demand for centrality is premised upon his own morality, which, itself, is merely a product of his personality. Of course, man defines himself based solely upon his personality. This, too, is the product of Biblicism which specifically teaches man to not seek his identity beyond his own personality. He's taught to separate the heavens from the Earth. Mind from matter. Which is order of the highest magnitude. So, to me, Biblicism, by default, is blasphemy against order in it's most relevant form and as it truly relates to man and his connection to all that surrounds him.

In other words, since when does Biblicism trump Universalism? Seems a bit backwards to me. How is it that man is deserving of such centrality? Just because man says so? That doesn't seem adequate to me.

[VIDEODROME]

Little bit of everything. This video clip actually reminds me of this forum.

[Kevin007]

Thinking all unbelievers are saved is more dangerous than thinking all unbelievers are going to Hell?

Universalism teaches all will go to Heaven.

[Kevin007]

How about this. We never ask this. Is Biblicism relevant to universal order? Now, sure, we know that Biblicism is relevant to man's perception of order where his own demand for centrality is premised upon his own morality, which, itself, is merely a product of his personality. Of course, man defines himself based solely upon his personality. This, too, is the product of Biblicism which specifically teaches man to not seek his identity beyond his own personality. He's taught to separate the heavens from the Earth. Mind from matter. Which is order of the highest magnitude. So, to me, Biblicism, by default, is blasphemy against order in it's most relevant form and as it truly relates to man and his connection to all that surrounds him.

In other words, since when does Biblicism trump Universalism? Seems a bit backwards to me. How is it that man is deserving of such centrality? Just because man says so? That doesn't seem adequate to me.

Are you an atheist NC?

[VIDEODROME]

Universalism teaches all will go to Heaven.

awesome. sign me up.

[Kevin007]

awesome. sign me up.

VD-are you an athiest, agnostic, Christian, other?

[Natural Citizen]

Are you an atheist NC?

No. I suppose that if I had to choose one of man's labels that I'd be OK with them referencing me agnostic. Which really only means that I choose to ask more questions. I don't claim to know everything about God in a way that demands that no more questions be asked. If that makes sense.

Of course, I spent the first 20 years of my adulthood in an observatory too.

[Kevin007]

No. I suppose that if I had to choose one of man's labels that I'd be OK with them referencing me agnostic. Which really only means that I choose to ask more questions. I don't claim to know everything about God in a way that demands that no more questions be asked. If that makes sense.

Of course, I spent the first 20 years of my adulthood in an observatory too.

cool, but you do realize that believer's ask ALL KINDS of questions and doubt too.....don't you?

[Natural Citizen]

cool, but you do realize that believer's ask ALL KINDS of questions and doubt too.....don't you?

Sure. Some of my fondest conversations and debates have been in the presence of believers who share seats on various science and technology and education boards. I've mentioned this here before.

I'm going to share something with you, Kevin, regarding the way that we in the science community differ from a person of faith in approaching the unknown. Perhaps it will save me a great deal of typing and you may know and understand me better afterward. And only because you asked.

I'll pm you.

[Kevin007]

ok, cool. thanks. Are you "famous"? In the public eye? lmk in pm.

[Natural Citizen]

ok, cool. thanks. Are you "famous"? In the public eye? lmk in pm.

Heh. Hardly famous, Kevin. I do a lecture there and about but that's about as public as I get. Some op-eds and other similar scribbles whenever...

[PursuePeace]

Most if not all Universalists hold that all mankind will go to heaven despite their various beliefs (or as the Christian universalist camp teaches because of Christ atonement everyone in all the different religions will end up in heaven.) It a very very dangerous teaching. The Bible teaches God is love (1 John 4:8), but God also punishes the sinner, why? Because he hates all who do iniquity. God cannot be reduced to only an infinitely loving God and ignore His other attributes. He is also infinitely just. He must deal with sin because of His nature of being. He must punish the sinner for their sinful work, just as He rewards the saint for their work. God is called a jealous God and wants our affections, but it is not forced. The truth of God's word makes it clear God has provided one way by which we may be saved. That single way is through Jesus' sacrifice. For all who trust in Him, salvation will come. Jesus saves us from the judgment of God upon us due to us because of our sinfulness. The natural consequence of being a sinner is judgment. God will punish the sinner (Hosea 8:13; 9:9) if he does not repent. The one who rejects Jesus does not have forgiveness of sins, and has the wrath of God abiding upon him.


Universalists ignore the clear statements Jesus made that we are already condemned. Jesus saves us from God’s wrath and punishment on sin. Jesus will save all those who receive Him- (John 1:12; Rom. 8:1) only then can they escape the judgment that is to come on sinners.

If everyone is going to be saved, through ANY religion, then no religion sends people to hell and every religion sends them to heaven. If all religions accept the idea of universalism, then all religions are valid and there is no error or lie. As universalism teaches each looks at the other as being valid, only from a different perspective; but all valid.

You may think that this teaching is not so common; but it is and growing. Some believe the final world religion will be a mix of Catholicism/Christianity and Islam, esp. as the AC is revealed, and believers are already raptured up to meet Jesus. Some even think it is similar to what is starting to happen now with Rick Warren and his ilk.

Just curious. What do you believe happens to "non-believers"?

[Kevin007]

Just curious. What do you believe happens to "non-believers"?

I believe what the Bible says.

[PursuePeace]

I believe what the Bible says.

hi there,
Can you be more specific about what you believe?

[Kevin007]

I believe believers go to heaven and unbelievers hell.

[PursuePeace]

I believe believers go to heaven and unbelievers hell.

If you don't mind me asking..
People have different ideas of what "hell" actually is. What is your view?
Do you believe hell is actual suffering physical/mental anguish for eternity (forever and ever without end or relief)?
Or do you believe the person ceases to exist (annihilation)?
Or something else..?

[VIDEODROME]

VD-are you an athiest, agnostic, Christian, other?

I like the term Skeptic.

I also relate to Igtheism or Ignosticism.

I may tend to be supportive of Atheists especially when they take on religious views that are just ridiculous.

[Kevin007]

I like the term Skeptic.

I also relate to Igtheism or Ignosticism.

I may tend to be supportive of Atheists especially when they take on religious views that are just ridiculous.

you look like a pastor in your avatar-lol.

[Kevin007]

If you don't mind me asking..
People have different ideas of what "hell" actually is. What is your view?
Do you believe hell is actual suffering physical/mental anguish for eternity (forever and ever without end or relief)?
Or do you believe the person ceases to exist (annihilation)?
Or something else..?

either eternal suffering in hellfire or a time in that then annihilation......

[VIDEODROME]

Hardly. The guy in my avatar is Richard Dawkins.