Victory of God

[TER]

The Victory of God

April 20, 2014 by Gabe Martini
Link here



The victory of God is not a schizophrenic victory over himself; it is a victory over death and its author, the devil. It is a great reconciliation; the warm embrace of the prodigal son.

During both Great Lent and Holy Week, Orthodox Christians hear some of the most deeply profound words ever uttered. And through these hymns, readings, canons, and psalms, we discover more fully the breadth of our redemption in Jesus Christ. The liturgical life of the Church is catechetical, and this experience is deifying, as well—for those who would cooperate with him.

It is in this time of year that we discover the true meaning behind why Jesus died on the Cross. Since we venerate even the Cross itself in multiple services during this season, its importance in our salvation story cannot be ignored. It is on the Cross and in Christ’s triumph over death that our redemption is accomplished.

But how? And what is the nature of Christ’s victory?

In other religions, gods are in no way kind, merciful, or long-suffering. Zeus was incestuous and committed acts of rape (e.g. Europa), while demanding animal sacrifice to appease his wrath. The pagan cults encountered by the ancient Hebrews—as recorded in the Old Testament—show both adult and infant sacrifice, ecstatic displays, and other forms of sacrificial offerings, all for the sake of satisfying the anger of their various deities.

And while some Christians since the Reformation have come to characterize the Father in similar ways, it is without warrant. Propitiation, in the pagan sense of the word, is a thoroughly pagan concept; it is not the story we find in God through his Son.

What we see in the old covenant, for example, is a purification of God’s people—not a satisfaction of God’s ‘wrath’ or ‘justice’—through both sacrifice and prayer. The community of Israel was purified by these sacrifices, and their sins were both cleansed and removed from among them (Heb. 9:13). This is why, in English, ‘expiation’ is now more commonly used for not only the sacrifice of the Jewish temple, but also now the sacrifice, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ—the true temple of Israel.

Jesus becomes the ‘mercy seat’ (hilasterion) of God’s people, since the blood of animals accomplishes nothing (Heb. 10:4). Through Christ, we are made pure; through Christ, we are both sanctified and deified; through Christ, we are made to be true and complete human beings; through Christ, we experience the true Passover, a walk through the depths of hades itself, emerging unscathed on the other side of death (this is why we walk below the kouvouklion on the evening of Great and Holy Friday).

The purpose of Christ’s atonement has been the subject of much speculation and debate over the centuries. Over time, several different viewpoints have been offered.

While much of Protestantism has recently adopted a broadly ‘legal’ theory of the atonement (through the initial work of trained lawyers), this has never been dominant among the Eastern fathers, nor within the hymns and canons of the Orthodox Church. This is not to say that a legal dimension is to be completely ignored—it is not—but that it has never been central.

Another is what’s called the ‘Ransom theory,’ where the purpose of Christ’s death is to appease the demons and Satan. In this, a ‘propitiatory’ act is not for the sake of God the Father, but for the devil. This perspective can certainly be found within the Orthodox tradition.

For example, the eirmos of the sixth Canon on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, the first Sunday of Great Lent:

The Church which is purified from the blood offered to demons
By the blood which flowed in mercy from Your side
Cries aloud to you, O Lord:
I will offer you a sacrifice of praise.

Even here, the sacrifice is the purification of God’s people, a far cry from ‘propitiation’ in both paganism and certain forms of heterodox Christianity. This ransom theory is also found in the narrative of C. S. Lewis’ The Chronicles of Narnia, with the self-sacrifice of Aslan.

A third theory, common among Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and even many Lutherans today, is what’s now called Christus Victor. As far back as the second century, Christian chalices, churches—and eventually even the shields and banners of the Roman Empire—were branded with a simple Greek insignia:

IC XC
NI KA

This is an abbreviated way of saying, ‘Jesus Christ, the Conqueror,’ or ‘Jesus Christ is Victorious.’ For the Church, this approach to Christ’s death on the Cross and his third-day resurrection has always been paramount. Jesus came to bind the strong-man, Satan (Matt. 12:29; Mark 3:27), and to put an end to his reign of terror (John 12:31; 14:30). He came to destroy the “god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4) and all his works, and to crush the very gates of death itself.

Through Christ first (Acts 10:38), and then his apostles and their successors, the forces of darkness were rendered naught. In our mysteries are innumerable victories over the kingdom of Satan—which is no doubt one of the reasons why, in Baptism, the catechumen (or an infant’s sponsors) spit upon Satan himself, as one confesses the true faith.

On Holy Saturday, the Church makes it plain in Her hymns that Christ descends to hades in order to make war against the forces of evil, defeating death by his own death.

And thus, the Paschal hymn:

Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death-by-death;
And upon those in the tombs bestowing life.

There was a real ‘zombie apocalypse’ on the night Jesus was crucified, as the graves opened wide and the fallen saints of old were walking the earth. Christ had won their victory in his death, since death cannot conquer Life itself. The Gospel hope moved with power even to the deepest recesses of the earth.

In his letter to the Hebrews, the apostle Paul eloquently summarizes the purpose of Christ’s incarnation, death, and resurrection:

For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin . . . Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage . . . Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make expiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered and been tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.
—Hebrews 2:10–18

Christ became man, so that man could become as God. He condescended and walked this earth so that we might become by Grace what he is by nature. He suffered not so that we wouldn’t have to, but so that we can handle suffering along with him (Rom. 8:17; 2 Cor. 1:6; 1 Tim. 4:10; 1 Thess. 3:4).

We glorify Christ’s incarnation, death, descent into hades, and third-day resurrection, not because he appeased the wrath of himself, but because he willingly laid down his life for his friends (John 15:13)—and all this, because God is love (1 John 4:8,16). While we were yet sinners, he died for us (Rom. 5:8). The Great Physician came not to save the righteous, but the lost, the sinful, and the suffering (Matt. 9:13; Mark 2:17), calling us to true repentance (Luke 5:32).

There is not a schizophrenic dilemma in the holy Trinity with the Divine will at war against himself—one desiring the destruction of humanity, and the other wishing for our release. No, our loving and long-suffering God came to save all, and desires that this take place (2 Peter 3:9). In his death and resurrection is an open and universal invitation for all who might lay hold (John 3:16–17).

But since he cannot violate our own free will—since if we have no free will, then Christ would have none either, being fully and truly man—we are left with a choice: to follow Christ in his sufferings and glorification on the Last Day, or to live for ourselves, and be left to our own devices—to be left to “the wrath of God” (Rom. 1:24–32).

The victory of God is a great wedding feast at the end of the age (Rev. 19:9). The arrangements are set, but we must bring our wedding garments (Matt. 22:1–14).

The victory of God is a victory over death and its power. And any applicable or even proper ‘theories’ of the atonement must be held in servitude to this core belief—otherwise, they are not Christian at all.

[Nang]

Christ became man, so that man could become as God.

False gospel.

[heavenlyboy34]

False gospel.

Why do you believe this? You should learn about Theosis.

[Kotin]

False gospel.

that is your opinion.. regardless of how strongly you believe it. please do not come into other people's threads and say thing like that.. people have different opinions and you have to accept that.

[VIDEODROME]

False gospel.

orly ??

[Nang]

Why do you believe this? You should learn about Theosis.

There is no such thing as Theosis.

Creatures cannot and will not ever become like their Creator God.

That is the original lie from the devil, told to Eve, in the garden.

[Kevin007]

Here's the flaw with this; the divine nature is imparted by the person of the Holy Spirit who lives inside us and controls us as we yield ourselves to him. However we don't become him. These are two separate natures, we don't become him and he does not become us either.

[Nang]

that is your opinion.. regardless of how strongly you believe it. please do not come into other people's threads and say thing like that.. people have different opinions and you have to accept that.

False gospels go way beyond simply stating different opinions.

It is a lie to say that Christ incarnated, died, and resurrected, so that mortal men could "become as God."

That is the EXACT SAME LIE the serpent told Adam and Eve in the garden, that cause sin and death to enter the world. (Genesis 3:5)

The ORIGINAL LIE OF SATAN REPEATED is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

[Kevin007]

Nowhere in The Bible is there a teaching of little gods vs. a big God, but false Gods verses the true God. So in reality to claim to be a little god is to put one in the category of a false God.

[Kevin007]

False gospels go way beyond simply stating different opinions.

It is a lie to say that Christ incarnated, died, and resurrected, so that mortal men could "become as God."

That is the EXACT SAME LIE the serpent told Adam and Eve in the garden, that cause sin and death to enter the world. (Genesis 3:5)

The ORIGINAL LIE OF SATAN REPEATED is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

yes- satan said you will "become like God."

[Natural Citizen]

I patently disagree with the teaching of this, TER. And I say this as respectfully as I can. I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong or right or anything like that. Just that I disagree with the teaching of this phenomenon with any idol. Not just the Christ figure for the current age who has perceivably been attached by way of folklore to the way the world physically functions in connection with a true and relevant higher order.

I was just telling Nang why over in the other thread the other day. It seems to me that, just like all of the other "Gods" and Christ figures through the mellenia that they are all a product of a literal observation of what everlasting life meant to men who forst witnessed and learned to look for it again, and remember it. Just seems like it's been so..., oh, I don't know...just turned into an old folk tale of sorts. Ind I'm saying this respectfully. Is just what I believe.

Do you know that on the program at Sunrise Service this morning, there was no picture of Jesus. There was a picture of the Sun at it's lowest point just prior to it's "rebirth". It overlooked a valley of newly revived crops. The picture told a different story than the brief sermon. What the pastor did was recite a story that conformed to the physical phenomenon that we had just seen but in an imaginary, yet socially acceptable or traditional way.

And thus, the Paschal hymn:

Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death-by-death;
And upon those in the tombs bestowing life.

[Kevin007]

in Psalm 82:6-8

‘I said, 'You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.’

This was addressed to the judges of Israel they were called gods not because they were divine but because they represented god when they judged the people. The word Elohim is applied to an aspect of God, as God was also to be ruler and judge over the people so He installed human rulers to do the same (see Deut.19:17-18). The Psalm is a put-down of corrupt judges who were abusing their authority and has a lot of irony in it.

[TER]

yes- satan said you will "become like God."

According to the Fathers of the Church, Adam's destiny was to grow in the likeness of God, that is to commune with God and share in the glory of the divine nature. This is the goal of all Christians, that is, to grow in greater and closer communion with God and become by grace what God is by nature. Not that we become equal with God, but that we share in His divine life which He gives to us as a loving Father. For this reason God became incarnate and rose from the dead, so that our corrupted bodies can become holy and living temples of the Holy Spirit of God. That is, to be sons of God, in our flesh and spirit, made possible by the Incarnate Logos of God Who has united the two and made this possible through His perfect obedience and sinless death and resurrection. He is the Firstfruits of what we have been called to be.

When the devil tempted Adam and Eve, he knew that they were too immature to handle the truths knowable by partaking from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. According to the Fathers, everything was for Adam eventually in the Garden, including the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but in good time. Adam's sin therefore was not that he wanted to be like God, for after all, it was God's will that Adam would grow in His likeness and partake in the goodness of the divine nature. Rather, it was Adam's pride and disobedience which led to his downfall, because he tried to circumvent God and His commandment, and tried to gain such lofty knowledge of the divine mysteries in his own way, and in his own time. THIS was Adams great sin, and when he did taste of the tree in his naivety and spiritual immaturity and disobedience, it was too much for him.

So, this claim that the devil's lie to Adam was that he was to become as God is partially correct. The devil knew that Adam partaking in this tree would have great knowledge of the divine mysteries of good and evil, godly knowledge, but the deceiver also knew that by tempting Adam to eat of it in the state he was in and against God's will, Adam would be too immature to handle such wisdom and power and on top of that flatly disobey God's one commandment and become separated from God.

[TER]

I patently disagree with the teaching of this, TER. And I say this as respectfully as I can.

That is fine. You of course can disagree. You seem to still hold on to the pagan and ancient understanding of the ontological basis of things, most specifically aligning with the Ancient Greek philosophers. Greek thought sought truth in a way that transcended history and which was located in the link between being and the perceiving mind. For the Greeks there was a unity between the intelligible world, the thinking mind, and being. This unity gave rise to the harmony and beauty of the cosmos, and it is precisely in this unity that truth is to be found. Truth, thus, is primarily cosmological.

However, this closed ontology of Greek thought found history rather problematical. Thus, the New Testament understanding of truth as a Person, that is ontology being based on personhood, completely flips the script (so to speak) to ancient Greek thought. Thus in affirming that Jesus Christ, that is, the historical being, is the truth, the New Testament hurls a challenge to Greek thought, since it is in the flow of history and through it, through its changes and ambiguities, that man is called to discover the meaning of existence.

For you, you HAVE to deny Christ as a real historical Person because it destroys your entire foundational understanding of what truth is. And so you cling to these solar phenomenons and astrological events to explain the story of Christ away, and attempt to transform history into mythology, fixating on signs which point to Christ while at the same time denying the very person those signs are pointing to. I am so sorry you still think this way and have such a small and base understanding of God who created the Universe out of nothing, and instead try to find meaning in life in dead chemical reactions and supernovas when your Creator Himself came down, humbled Himself, to grant you eternal life.

[heavenlyboy34]

That is fine. You of course can disagree. You seem to still hold on to the pagan and ancient understanding of the ontological basis of things, most specifically with the Ancient Greek philosophers. Greek thought sought truth in a way that transcended history and which was located in the link between being and the perceiving mind. For the Greeks there was a unity between the intelligible world, the thinking mind, and being. This unity gave rise to the harmony and beauty of the cosmos, and it is precisely in this unity that truth is to be found. Truth, thus, is primarily cosmological.

However, this closed ontology of Greek thought found history rather problematical. Thus, the New Testament understanding of truth as a Person, that is ontology is based on personhood, completely flips the script (so to speak) to ancient Greek thought. Thus in affirming that Jesus Christ, that is, the historical being, is the truth, the New Testament hurls a challenge to Greek thought, since it is in the flow of history and through it, through its changes and ambiguities, that man is called to discover the meaning of existence.

For you, you HAVE to deny Christ as a real historical Person because it destroys your entire foundational understanding of what truth is. And so you cling to these solar phenomenons and astrological events to explain it away. I am so sorry you still think this way and have such a small and base understanding of God who created the Universe out of nothing, and instead try to find meaning in life in dead chemical reactions and supernovas when your Creator Himself came down to grant you eternal life.

This is an excellent post worth understanding, NC^^ Augustine's major errors, as I currently understand it, came about when he became very enamoured with Plato and Platinus and tried to "fuse" this classical Greek thought into the Christian worldview, thus creating what is now called "Christian Platonism".

[Natural Citizen]

This is an excellent post worth understanding, NC^^ Augustine's major errors, as I currently understand it, came about when he became very enamoured with Plato and Platinus and tried to "fuse" this classical Greek thought into the Christian worldview, thus creating what is now called "Christian Platonism".

I've shared my thoughts on the infusion of Plato and Aristotle into religious culture here before. And in great depth at times. I don't know, HB. Just seems to me that the organization of theology itself is premised upon teaching men to separate the heavens from the Earth and to not look or try to understand the true, physical connection he has with order in the relevant sense to his body and mind. This is the very mechanism for slavery. For men to define themselves based upon their personality alone only leads to a self rightous interpretation of morality and a manufactured perception of order.

The whole Sunrise Service thing this morning seemed like such a charade to me. What they were physically observing was not, in any way, what they were celebrating.

Anyhow. I'll just leave my thought at this. There was a time when the Earth was flat until man looked and found that it was not. I
think that a day will come when man learns his true identity and connection to order. He just has to overcome the illusion that he's been taught to accept. Reorganize, so to speak.

[Nang]

According to the Fathers of the Church, Adam's destiny was to grow in the likeness of God, that is to commune with God and share in the glory of the divine nature.

But this is ontologically impossible. There is no way the creature can be like God, and because of sin and corruption, there was no spiritual reconciliation between creature and God, without God descending from heaven and taking on the form of His creatures.

There is no biblical basis for your statement above about "Adam's destiny."

This is the goal of all Christians, that is, to grow in greater and closer communion with God and become by grace what God is by nature.

It absolutely is not the goal of all Christians . . . man can never ontologically be the same as God. Never. That is the whole reason Jesus Christ incarnated as God/Man, so that through faith in His Mediation, mere mortals could be reconciled with God . . . THROUGH HIM.

He became the unique and sole means of reconciling creature with Creator . . . there is NO other way . . . and no religion should sell the fairy tale that mortals can work their way to immortality, even through His supposed "help."

There is only one way that sinners can be reconciled with God and gain access to His kingdom, and that is being chosen for redemption in the Son . . . which occurred due to the sovereign decree of God alone.

Not that we become equal with God, but that we share in His divine life which He gives to us as a loving Father. For this reason God became incarnate and rose from the dead, so that our corrupted bodies can become holy and living temples of the Holy Spirit of God. That is, to be sons of God, in our flesh and spirit, made possible by the Incarnate Logos of God Who has united the two and made this possible through His perfect obedience and sinless death and resurrection. He is the Firstfruits of what we have been called to be.

You describe reconciliation and Justification, but go way too far by declaring an ontological change in man. Even in glory, believers saved and redeemed in Jesus Christ, will live with Him forever, as creatures. Glorified creatures, partaking of His holiness and Spirit, but remaining creatures nonetheless.

When the devil tempted Adam and Eve, he knew that they were too immature to handle the truths knowable by partaking from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. According to the Fathers, everything was for Adam eventually in the Garden, including the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but in good time.

Sorry, but none of this dialogue is biblical. It is simply speculative theory on your part.

Adam's sin therefore was not that he wanted to be like God,

It was absolutely Adam's sin. Genesis 3:5-6

for after all, it was God's will that Adam would grow in His likeness and partake in the goodness of the divine nature.

There is NO scripture or account of divine decree, that backs up your statement. You are just making things up.

Rather, it was Adam's pride and disobedience which led to his downfall, because he tried to circumvent God and His commandment, and tried to gain such lofty knowledge of the divine mysteries in his own way, and in his own time. THIS was Adams great sin, and when he did taste of the tree in his naivety and spiritual immaturity and disobedience, it was too much for him.

I disagree. It is my belief that Adam possessed extreme intelligence and knowledge of good and evil before he partook of the tree. He LOST the creational and ontological blessings he first possessed, by rebelling in greed and trying to "be like God."

So, this claim that the devil's lie to Adam was that he was to become as God is partially correct. The devil knew that Adam partaking in this tree would have great knowledge of the divine mysteries of good and evil, godly knowledge, but the deceiver also knew that by tempting him Adam would be too immature to handle such wisdom and power and on top of that flatly disobey God's one commandment.

Where does scripture confirm your view? Where is there any inkling that Adam was "immature" or unable to "handle" obedience? That was Adam's created and covenantal duty, under the Covenant of Works.

Adam deliberately broke covenant and Godly command, in order to elevate himself as equal with God, which corrupted the upright human nature he was created and destined under the Law, to forever enjoy in God's fellowship.

We should be focused less on Adam ever being destined to become like God, and concentrate wholly on the necessity and why the Son of God had to become man, to save Adam's sorry offspring consigned to death, because of Adam's rebellious greed.

[robert68]

No sane and decent person would ask a serious message to be sent via a human grapevine. Yet the claims of Churchianity are significantly premised on “Jesus”, a person, doing just that. And no amount of religious jargon, colorful icons, and circular logic changes that.

[Terry1]

The Victory of God

April 20, 2014 by Gabe Martini
Link here



The victory of God is not a schizophrenic victory over himself; it is a victory over death and its author, the devil. It is a great reconciliation; the warm embrace of the prodigal son.

During both Great Lent and Holy Week, Orthodox Christians hear some of the most deeply profound words ever uttered. And through these hymns, readings, canons, and psalms, we discover more fully the breadth of our redemption in Jesus Christ. The liturgical life of the Church is catechetical, and this experience is deifying, as well—for those who would cooperate with him.

It is in this time of year that we discover the true meaning behind why Jesus died on the Cross. Since we venerate even the Cross itself in multiple services during this season, its importance in our salvation story cannot be ignored. It is on the Cross and in Christ’s triumph over death that our redemption is accomplished.

But how? And what is the nature of Christ’s victory?

In other religions, gods are in no way kind, merciful, or long-suffering. Zeus was incestuous and committed acts of rape (e.g. Europa), while demanding animal sacrifice to appease his wrath. The pagan cults encountered by the ancient Hebrews—as recorded in the Old Testament—show both adult and infant sacrifice, ecstatic displays, and other forms of sacrificial offerings, all for the sake of satisfying the anger of their various deities.

And while some Christians since the Reformation have come to characterize the Father in similar ways, it is without warrant. Propitiation, in the pagan sense of the word, is a thoroughly pagan concept; it is not the story we find in God through his Son.

What we see in the old covenant, for example, is a purification of God’s people—not a satisfaction of God’s ‘wrath’ or ‘justice’—through both sacrifice and prayer. The community of Israel was purified by these sacrifices, and their sins were both cleansed and removed from among them (Heb. 9:13). This is why, in English, ‘expiation’ is now more commonly used for not only the sacrifice of the Jewish temple, but also now the sacrifice, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ—the true temple of Israel.

Jesus becomes the ‘mercy seat’ (hilasterion) of God’s people, since the blood of animals accomplishes nothing (Heb. 10:4). Through Christ, we are made pure; through Christ, we are both sanctified and deified; through Christ, we are made to be true and complete human beings; through Christ, we experience the true Passover, a walk through the depths of hades itself, emerging unscathed on the other side of death (this is why we walk below the kouvouklion on the evening of Great and Holy Friday).

The purpose of Christ’s atonement has been the subject of much speculation and debate over the centuries. Over time, several different viewpoints have been offered.

While much of Protestantism has recently adopted a broadly ‘legal’ theory of the atonement (through the initial work of trained lawyers), this has never been dominant among the Eastern fathers, nor within the hymns and canons of the Orthodox Church. This is not to say that a legal dimension is to be completely ignored—it is not—but that it has never been central.

Another is what’s called the ‘Ransom theory,’ where the purpose of Christ’s death is to appease the demons and Satan. In this, a ‘propitiatory’ act is not for the sake of God the Father, but for the devil. This perspective can certainly be found within the Orthodox tradition.

For example, the eirmos of the sixth Canon on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, the first Sunday of Great Lent:

The Church which is purified from the blood offered to demons
By the blood which flowed in mercy from Your side
Cries aloud to you, O Lord:
I will offer you a sacrifice of praise.

Even here, the sacrifice is the purification of God’s people, a far cry from ‘propitiation’ in both paganism and certain forms of heterodox Christianity. This ransom theory is also found in the narrative of C. S. Lewis’ The Chronicles of Narnia, with the self-sacrifice of Aslan.

A third theory, common among Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and even many Lutherans today, is what’s now called Christus Victor. As far back as the second century, Christian chalices, churches—and eventually even the shields and banners of the Roman Empire—were branded with a simple Greek insignia:

IC XC
NI KA

This is an abbreviated way of saying, ‘Jesus Christ, the Conqueror,’ or ‘Jesus Christ is Victorious.’ For the Church, this approach to Christ’s death on the Cross and his third-day resurrection has always been paramount. Jesus came to bind the strong-man, Satan (Matt. 12:29; Mark 3:27), and to put an end to his reign of terror (John 12:31; 14:30). He came to destroy the “god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4) and all his works, and to crush the very gates of death itself.

Through Christ first (Acts 10:38), and then his apostles and their successors, the forces of darkness were rendered naught. In our mysteries are innumerable victories over the kingdom of Satan—which is no doubt one of the reasons why, in Baptism, the catechumen (or an infant’s sponsors) spit upon Satan himself, as one confesses the true faith.

On Holy Saturday, the Church makes it plain in Her hymns that Christ descends to hades in order to make war against the forces of evil, defeating death by his own death.

And thus, the Paschal hymn:

Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death-by-death;
And upon those in the tombs bestowing life.

There was a real ‘zombie apocalypse’ on the night Jesus was crucified, as the graves opened wide and the fallen saints of old were walking the earth. Christ had won their victory in his death, since death cannot conquer Life itself. The Gospel hope moved with power even to the deepest recesses of the earth.

In his letter to the Hebrews, the apostle Paul eloquently summarizes the purpose of Christ’s incarnation, death, and resurrection:

For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin . . . Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage . . . Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make expiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered and been tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.
—Hebrews 2:10–18

Christ became man, so that man could become as God. He condescended and walked this earth so that we might become by Grace what he is by nature. He suffered not so that we wouldn’t have to, but so that we can handle suffering along with him (Rom. 8:17; 2 Cor. 1:6; 1 Tim. 4:10; 1 Thess. 3:4).

We glorify Christ’s incarnation, death, descent into hades, and third-day resurrection, not because he appeased the wrath of himself, but because he willingly laid down his life for his friends (John 15:13)—and all this, because God is love (1 John 4:8,16). While we were yet sinners, he died for us (Rom. 5:8). The Great Physician came not to save the righteous, but the lost, the sinful, and the suffering (Matt. 9:13; Mark 2:17), calling us to true repentance (Luke 5:32).

There is not a schizophrenic dilemma in the holy Trinity with the Divine will at war against himself—one desiring the destruction of humanity, and the other wishing for our release. No, our loving and long-suffering God came to save all, and desires that this take place (2 Peter 3:9). In his death and resurrection is an open and universal invitation for all who might lay hold (John 3:16–17).

But since he cannot violate our own free will—since if we have no free will, then Christ would have none either, being fully and truly man—we are left with a choice: to follow Christ in his sufferings and glorification on the Last Day, or to live for ourselves, and be left to our own devices—to be left to “the wrath of God” (Rom. 1:24–32).

The victory of God is a great wedding feast at the end of the age (Rev. 19:9). The arrangements are set, but we must bring our wedding garments (Matt. 22:1–14).

The victory of God is a victory over death and its power. And any applicable or even proper ‘theories’ of the atonement must be held in servitude to this core belief—otherwise, they are not Christian at all.

Wonderful teaching and post TER and spot on! Thanks for sharing this. God bless!

[TER]

But this is ontologically impossible. There is no way the creature can be like God, and because of sin and corruption, there was no spiritual reconciliation between creature and God, without God descending from heaven and taking on the form of His creatures.

Our ontology does not change Nang, we remain the same person we have always been. Rather, it is our relationships which change.

For example, according to the Church Fathers, Adam as a created being is by nature (on his own) mortal. That is, all things with a beginning have by nature an end. God alone is without beginning and without end. Thus when Adam was in paradise, ontologically as a created being and person, he was mortal. What gave him immortality (and gives humans immortality) is God's grace. Thus, as long as Adam held in communion and right relation with God, Adam was immortal. Not by his ontological nature, but by grace.

Only God alone is ontologically by nature immortal, eternal, etc. When He graces us our ontology does not change, for we remain the same person. Rather, through grace, we have life and holiness given to us not by own our works or abilities, but soley by the grace of God. This sanctification, this holiness, these gifts of the Holy Spirit is what it means to be deified, or to attain theosis. Not that ontologically we become god, but that through His grace we share in the divine attributes He freely gives us. This is why Moses' face shined in the uncreated Light of God. This is why St. Peter raised the dead. This is why his handkerchief healed the sick. This is why Elisha's bones raised the dead. God's energies in the created world through the Holy Spirit is the source of such power and glory, and when we become living temples of the Holy Spirit as St. Paul says and as the history of the saints show us, we partake in the divine nature and become 'like Him' through grace. This is deificiation, and to deny this simply ignores the very wonder and lovingkindness God has granted to us, and the very reason why God has created us, namely to share in His divine glory and life as co-heirs of the Kingdom, NOT BY OUR NATURE, but by adoption and through His great love and mercy.

There is no biblical basis for your statement above about "Adam's destiny."

I anticipated you saying this, which is why I was sure to include 'according to the Church Fathers'. Not everything we know about the truths of God are confined to the Holy Scriptures. God has not stopped revealing truths since the last page of the New Testament was written. The Holy Spirit working in the world did not even begin in earnest until after Christ rose from the dead. His Church, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth, has, through the illumined saints and fathers of the Church, provided us with correct understandings of the faith. This, all done, by the Holy Spirit working through them. You simply believe that you know better then them, or that your own fathers of your church (namely the Reformers) know more then they did. I simply disagree. And I most certainly disagree with your interpretations of the incomplete Scriptures you use (for you do not even use the same books the Apostles read) when your interpretations run contra to what the Father teach. You should practice a little more humility and understand that while you may have made yourself the pope of your own faith, your fallible interpretations do not define the truth, no matter how much you try and argue your case through prooftexting.

There is only one way that sinners can be reconciled with God and gain access to His kingdom, and that is being chosen for redemption in the Son . . . which occurred due to the sovereign decree of God alone.

Yes, I agree, only through Christ alone can we be reconciled. We have no disagreement here.

You describe reconciliation and Justification, but go way too far by declaring an ontological change in man. Even in glory, believers saved and redeemed in Jesus Christ, will live with Him forever, as creatures. Glorified creatures, partaking of His holiness and Spirit, but remaining creatures nonetheless.

I agree, as stated above, that ontologically, the person does not change. Rather, our relationship with God (and through God, our relationship with all of creation) changes, so that by His grace we can partake in the divine nature.

I disagree. It is my belief that Adam possessed extreme intelligence and knowledge of good and evil before he partook of the tree. He LOST the creational and ontological blessings he first possessed, by rebelling in greed and trying to "be like God."

I honestly don't value that much what you believe Nang because you have an ahistorical approach to the truth and deny the Holy Spirit working within the body of Christ since the day of Pentecost. I value much more what much more holier people then you believed and what the consensus of the Church Fathers is. I'm sorry if this bothers you or bruises your ego.

We should be focused less on Adam ever being destined to become like God, and concentrate wholly on the necessity and why the Son of God had to become man, to save Adam's sorry offspring consigned to death, because of Adam's rebellious greed.

We should do both, that is understand Christ's great and redemptive work on the cross as our only mediator to the Father while at the same time following Him so that we too might be like Him Who is the Firstfruits of our new creation. You seem fixated on one aspect so that you can ignore the other aspect. But if you believe being a bully and a nasty person to others in defense of your faith will justify you, you are incorrect. For while you hold on to the firm foundation of faith in Christ which is necessary, you squander the image of God in you and quench the Holy Spirit by your attitude, actions, and words. I humbly suggest that this is what you should be working on and focusing on in your situation.

[Nang]

Thus when Adam was in paradise, ontologically as a created being and person, he was mortal. What gave him immortality (and gives humans immortality) is God's grace.

Adam was created to exist according to the Covenant of Works . . . no grace to exist was required until Adam broke and failed to keep this Covenant.

Thus, as long as Adam held in communion and right relation with God, Adam was immortal. Not by his ontological nature, but by grace.

No grace was necessary until Adam fell into sin. Prior, Adam's duty before God was under the Moral Law and commands of God, according to Covenant.

Only God alone is ontologically by nature immortal, eternal, etc. When He graces us our ontology does not change, for we remain the same person. Rather, through grace, we have life and holiness given to us not by own our works or abilities, but soley by the grace of God. This sanctification, this holiness, these gifts of the Holy Spirit is what it means to be deified, or to attain theosis.

I disagree. The fruits of the Holy Spirit, that evidence in those regenerated and anointed, reveal His deity and are meant to bring glory to the Creator. They are not meant to deify the creature.

Not that ontologically we become god, but that through His grace we share in the divine attributes He freely gives us.

Here is the crux of your error. Divine attributes are non-communicable. Justified sinners can partake of the Spirit of God, for He indwells to guarantee the promises of everlasting life, but they cannot be given the attributes of the Uncreate God.

This is why Moses' face shined in the uncreated Light of God. This is why St. Peter raised the dead. This is why his handkerchief healed the sick. This is why Elisha's bones raised the dead. God's energies in the created world through the Holy Spirit is the source of such power and glory, and when we become living temples of the Holy Spirit as St. Paul says and as the history of the saints show us, we partake in the divine nature and become 'like Him' through grace.

You take a believer's partaking of the Spirit, and his bearing and reflecting the glories of God, too far. You claim no ontological change and then repeat sinners somehow "become like Him." Grace does not make creatures like their Creator. Grace adopts them as sons and gives them everlasting life and access to the throne of mercy in heaven, but it is not an "energy" that ever makes them "like God."

This is deificiation, and to deny this simply ignores the very wonder and lovingkindness God has granted to us, and the very reason why God has created us, namely to share in His divine glory and life as co-heirs of the Kingdom, NOT BY OUR NATURE, but by adoption and through His great love and mercy.

I agree with what you state here, except for the "deification" part. This is an unbiblical and unwarranted belief; I don't care how many dead men have wrongly taught it.

I anticipated you saying this, which is why I was sure to include 'according to the Church Fathers'. Not everything we know about the truths of God are confined to the Holy Scriptures. God has not stopped revealing truths since the last page of the New Testament was written.

This belief in continuous revelation amounts to adding to the Word of God, for which there are severe punishments. Rev. 22:18-29

The Holy Spirit working in the world did not even begin in earnest until after Christ rose from the dead.

You demean the Spirit of God, who was active in Creation, and whose power raised Christ from the dead. All three Persons of The Trinity are equal in activity in this creation! There is no hierarchies or dispensations of agency within the Godhead, lest you teach Modalism.

His Church, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth, has, through the illumined saints and fathers of the Church, provided us with correct understandings of the faith. This, all done, by the Holy Spirit working through them. You simply believe that you know better then them, or that your own fathers of your church (namely the Reformers) know more then they did.

No, I simply believe in Sola Scriptura and I am a Scripturalist.

I agree, as stated above, that ontologically, the person does not change. Rather, our relationship with God (and through God, our relationship with all of creation) changes, so that by His grace we can partake in the divine nature.

The word "partakers" as used in II Peter 1:4 means to "communicate" with the divine nature. It does not mean the believer is given or can earn the divine nature of Christ.

I honestly don't value that much what you believe Nang.

I know you don't, because you think your organizational traditions are superior to the Holy Scriptures of God. That is your problem, not mine.

I value much more what much more holier people then you believed and what the consensus of the Church Fathers are. I'm sorry if this bothers you or bruises your ego.

Seeing you add to Holy Scripture and unrepentantly/continuously break God's Holy Law, is what bothers me. Not my ego, but my spirit.

[TER]

I will respond to your post later Nang. It needs quite a bit of unpacking and I am at work and do not the luxury at this moment to do so. Have a blessed Bright Monday!

[PierzStyx]

False gospels go way beyond simply stating different opinions.

It is a lie to say that Christ incarnated, died, and resurrected, so that mortal men could "become as God."

That is the EXACT SAME LIE the serpent told Adam and Eve in the garden, that cause sin and death to enter the world. (Genesis 3:5)

The ORIGINAL LIE OF SATAN REPEATED is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

Ahem. According to scripture:

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." -Genesis 3:5, the Serpent/Satan tempting Eve.

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" Genesis 3:22, God explaining how man had become like Him

Satan's way is to mix truth in to falsehood so you'll accept the lie. Satan did not lie when he said man could and would become like God. God Himself actually affirms this fact. Satan lied when he said, "Ye shall not surely die," from partaking of the fruit.

[heavenlyboy34]

No sane and decent person would ask a serious message to be sent via a human grapevine. Yet the claims of Churchianity are significantly premised on “Jesus”, a person, doing just that. And no amount of religious jargon, colorful icons, and circular logic changes that.

You assume that Jesus was just a person. He was fully God and fully man.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; And ascended into heaven and sitteth at the right hand of the Father; And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets; And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the Resurrection of the dead. And the Life of the world to come. Amen.

[robert68]

You assume that Jesus was just a person. He was fully God and fully man.

“A person”, my term, doesn’t mean less than a person or man, so it was correct. In any case, my point holds at least as much with the word “being” in place of “person”. A human grapevine is the most flawed and unverifiable means of communication there is.

[heavenlyboy34]

“A person”, my term, doesn’t mean less than a person or man, so it was correct. In any case, my point holds at least as much with the word “being” in place of “person”. A human grapevine is the most flawed and unverifiable means of communication there is.

Thanks for clarifying, but you're still incorrect-just in a different way. ~hugs~

[fr33]

The victory of God is not a schizophrenic victory over himself; it is a victory over death and its author, the devil.

Who authored the devil? Who created that enemy?

[robert68]

Who authored the devil? Who created that enemy?

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

[Beorn]

Maybe I missed it as I skimmed, but what exactly are the ways in which you believe Christians become like God?
What do you believe are God's communicable attributes?