Reid Stands by Bundy Remarks: They’re ‘Domestic Violent Terrorist Wannabes’

[phill4paul]

King's Land, King's Grant, King's Court...c'mon, you're just trolling now.

So, who is the "perfect" victim of government oppression that "we" should coalesce around?

Just another idiot that played his card on RPF.

He did it to himself.

[squarepusher]

I challenge you to refuse your heirs their inheritance in your will. I challenge you to make a living as a rancher without being a "multimillionaire". And if you live in a city, I challenge you to stop using the subsidy that your local government provides to steal water from other people and their lands. As usual, most "principled" libertarians are just as hypocritical as the people they criticize.

I have no problem with inheritance, or think worse of people who do so or of people who have money or do not. However in this case, its not just that he has wealth, its that he refuses to pay the already subsidized rate to graze his cattle, use water, $#@! on lands, claiming in his argument "he doesn't recognize the federal government," when in fact he is a multimillionaire rancher who has profited from federal subsidies greatly (any farmer or livestock ranchers do so in America). Its something like $1.50 per mother/calf pair per month, which is insanely cheap, and I guarantee he does not work 14 hours days, he most likely has illegal immigrants doing most of the heavy/hard work for him. He lost 2 court cases in federal court (assuming at this point when he fought the cases legally he did recognize the federal government), then loses the case and all of a sudden "doesn't recognize the federal government," and hes gunna use their property on the barrel of his gun. This is libertarianism at its worst, someone who fails in his channels the peaceful way then resorts to violence.

I'm gunna bring my cows over to you all your yards who disagree with me, and graze in your backyards, eat your vegetation, drink you water, $#@! on your land, then if you claim "property rights/trespassing" I will simply claim to not recognize your property. Sound pretty douchy? He is violating the laws of the will of the people.

Ronald Reagan put into law this about grazing fees:
Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees
February 14, 1986

So these laws that Bundy are fighting (or he simply is at the point of not even acknowledging them or the federal government) were put into place by "conservative hero" Ronald Reagan. So my point is, it is not a Libertarian position to have to support Clive Bundy at all, some will choose to and these will be the extremists who don't recognize the federal government at all. Wouldn't it be convenient if any time someone was violating a federal law they could simply say "I don't recognize your authority!!1" and be off scott free? This is nothing even close to resembling the American Revolution either, since Cliven and his "militia" crew are about 500 strong who claim to not recognize the federal government, they would absolutely be crushed if they wanted to take this to a trade of force as the feds really did consider them a "foreign invader/terrorist." The feds could literally blow up his entire ranch with not even leaving their computer with drone strikes, so its a pretty stupid fight if he wants to take it to force, like a real revolution in 1776, so basically his only strategy is to try to "garner sympathy" with the American public, I guess that's what the whole "women and children" strategy was - a PR move, and thats what this whole thing is, which is why it is despicable to put the lives of these innocent Oathkeepers, and people helping him using their lives as a way to get public attention. On the sympathy note, which is all this is, there are plenty of other Americans more deserving of sympathy, like people who literally are in poverty, living 6 to an apartment, who have lost their homes, and the eroding middle class. The graduate with 100k in student loans with no jobs, the list goes on and on ... thats why I think it is ridiculous for this multimillionaire inheritee thousand acre land owner to by crying like a baby over not wanting to pay a few dollars a month to graze his cattle on other peoples land.

So basically if he doesn't recognize the feds as legitimate, that makes him an illegal immigrant and we should deport him with ICE Or maybe give his land back to the native americans/mexicans who were there before him?



That being said, I do disagree with the BLM show of force as well, it was very heavy handed, even if they were legally in the right, they didn't grasp the situation well as it is not worth losing human lives over. The Government can simply sit back and take him apart piecemeal by attacking his IRS refund, attaching liens on his bank accounts etc and waiting till he brings the cattle to market and placing a lien on the funds at that time.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I have a difficult time getting behind a multimillionaire rancher (Cliven Bundy)...

I guess we could discuss the difference between land rich and other types of rich, but maybe that would be pointless. I don't know about Mr. Bundy's financial status; however, if he's some kind of very rich, then I'd say he's a fairly shrewd business man.

The Las Vegas Resource Management Plan was published in May 1998. It basically serves as a template for BLM's plan to develop the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone. The first court decision against Bundy was November 1998. I'd say those dates are no coincidence.

The possibly and only shrewd thing about Bundy is that he could have been somewhat ahead of their game. He saw the impending development that would eventually put 52 of his fellow ranchers out of business. If you look at from a purely practical point of view, then Bundy would have been a fool to pay fees to an organization that had no intention of helping his business.

People can talk all day about how these people are freeloaders, and even make claims about how they're living high off the hog. Bundy however, strikes me as another casualty in the perennial battle of urban vs. rural. He is being displaced by urban interests, especially the resourceful energy companies who are simply transferring ecological responsibility from themselves to adjacent areas. The idea that BLM was EVER there to help Bundy or those ranchers "manage" anything is hogwash of the highest degree.

The feds could literally blow up his entire ranch with not even leaving their computer with drone strikes,...

They could blow up his ranch, but this is bigger than Cliven Bundy. It's also much bigger than Harry Reid, Sally Jewell, or any single Chinese company. The entire energy context is far different from Waco or Ruby Ridge.

The energy plan currently envisioned would suffer a quite a setback if Bundy is seriously harmed or killed, and the people at the very highest levels know this. This is not simply about one rancher or one company. The plan under which Bundy falls not only covers Nevada, but also five adjoining states. That is to say nothing of plans for the entire rest of the country.

Those implementing this plan are not going to do themselves any favors with some hothead pressing a button or pulling a trigger. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing there is very serious discussion to isolate Cliven Bundy, possible by some type of contempt charge. Taking him out of the picture that way would be an attempt to defuse a lot of other people. At least for now.

[nobody's_hero]

Bundy's Ranch facebook page has posted several videos of the carnage caused by the BLM and their contract cowboys. Several bull carcasses are strewn across the land, riddled with bullet holes. A few of the watering devices constructed by the bundy family have been demolished with the metal just left sitting in the sand. The BLM was running a 'scorched earth' campaign against this rancher, and yet people allow Reid to control the narrative by suggesting that the people who showed up to defend Cliven's family are the terrorists?

They need to start recalling these people. Don't wait for the next election. Recall them . . . yesterday!

And to squarepusher, evidence suggests that Bundy has made several improvements to the land, so I don't think the word "subsidize" fits. If anyone is getting screwed, it's the other ranchers who are paying 'grazing' fees which only go to militarize the BLM and have practically NOTHING to do with land conservation and maintenance. The poor suckers who continue to pay grazing fees are doing nothing but help fund an army to defend federal land until they can sell it off to special interests.

We talk a lot about 'starving the beast' but I guess it doesn't count if you're a millionaire rancher who doesn't want to pay taxes which fund a beast capable of this:

http://benswann.com/did-blm-bury-bun...raphic-images/

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The poor suckers who continue to pay grazing fees are doing nothing but help fund an army to defend federal land until they can sell it off to special interests.

This needs to be repeated and can't be emphasized enough.

[WM_in_MO]

$#@! You Harry.

///

[Occam's Banana]

Reid said that Bundy “doesn’t believe that the American government is valid” and doesn’t follow the law, bringing up how hundreds of people showed up armed to defend Bundy to argue that they’re basically engaging in an act of domestic terrorism.

“600 people came. Armed. They had practice, they had maneuver, they knew what they were doing. They set up snipers in strategic locations with sniper rifles. They had assault weapons. They had automatic weapons… If there ever were an example of people who were domestic violent terrorist wannabes, these are the guys, and I think we should call it that way.”

Senator Harry Reid: today's version of Governor Thomas Gage?

Heller said, “What Senator Reid may call domestic terrorists, I call patriots.” Reid shot back, “If they’re patriots, we’re in real trouble.”

And the braying jackass probably didn't even realize that he zinged himself ...

[pcosmar]

Ronald Reagan put into law this about grazing fees:
Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees
February 14, 1986

Yes he did.
And it was another executive order that should have never been penned.

Another decree that was not asked for by the people affected.

And it has put ranchers (families) out of business and driven up the price of producing food. to the benefit of Corporate Factory Farms.

Rule by decree.

[pcosmar]

Oh,, and another point of the narrative.
Federal Land.? It is not Federal Land.

The constitution does not allow the Federal Government to own that land. It is Open Range. NO Mans land. and everyone's land.

The peoples land. And it was managed by the people that lived there for well over 100 years before the government claimed some "right" to it.

this "Federal Land" bull$#@! needs to be removed from the conversation.

[otherone]

Reid said that Bundy “doesn’t believe that the American 'federal' government is valid”...... hundreds of people showed up armed to defend Bundy ..... they’re basically engaging in an act of domestic terrorism.

,
Believing the federal government isn't valid is an act of terrorism. It's 2014, and the definition of terrorism is simply anti-DC.
Be warned.

[nobody's_hero]

And the braying jackass probably didn't even realize that he zinged himself ...

I didn't even realize it, lol. +rep for you

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm gunna bring my cows over to you all your yards who disagree with me, and graze in your backyards, eat your vegetation, drink you water, $#@! on your land, then if you claim "property rights/trespassing" I will simply claim to not recognize your property. Sound pretty douchy? He is violating the laws of the will of the people.

Lol.

The laws of the will of the people?

First this is land assumed to be owned by a federal bureaucracy. Said federal bureaucracy can own no land, it can only squander it. Second, the people are half-retarded, blinded by exercises of petty power or the inclination to steal what isn't theirs, and when "their will" (if such an orwellian "democratic" term should even be uttered) is in conflict with the law their will means not a thing. First, the majority whose "will" has been trampled have never read the Constitution that allegedly governs this land. They have never read the executive orders, they aren't read on the corruption of the BLM and much more... in fact, I'd be willing to bet dollars to pennies that they're not read in anything aside from football statistics and celebrity gossip. This is so absurd. The will of the people is to take your money, send you off to a foreign land, nationalistically brand those who step away from their indoctrinated group think as acting terroristically or strange, imprison you for non-crimes, acquit the costumed murderers and more. To hell with their will.

Their cows using the land is more productive and beneficial for all than the land laying untended and overgrown, squandered in the name of federal overreach. I would urge you to look into this issue more deeply. Not simply the Bundy case but the entire case. Their policies are so shortsighted, heavy handed, and absurd, I have trouble believing that anyone read on the matter could support them. Absent those working for them, that is.

[Ender]

I have no problem with inheritance, or think worse of people who do so or of people who have money or do not. However in this case, its not just that he has wealth, its that he refuses to pay the already subsidized rate to graze his cattle, use water, $#@! on lands, claiming in his argument "he doesn't recognize the federal government," when in fact he is a multimillionaire rancher who has profited from federal subsidies greatly (any farmer or livestock ranchers do so in America). Its something like $1.50 per mother/calf pair per month, which is insanely cheap, and I guarantee he does not work 14 hours days, he most likely has illegal immigrants doing most of the heavy/hard work for him. He lost 2 court cases in federal court (assuming at this point when he fought the cases legally he did recognize the federal government), then loses the case and all of a sudden "doesn't recognize the federal government," and hes gunna use their property on the barrel of his gun. This is libertarianism at its worst, someone who fails in his channels the peaceful way then resorts to violence.

I'm gunna bring my cows over to you all your yards who disagree with me, and graze in your backyards, eat your vegetation, drink you water, $#@! on your land, then if you claim "property rights/trespassing" I will simply claim to not recognize your property. Sound pretty douchy? He is violating the laws of the will of the people.

Ronald Reagan put into law this about grazing fees:
Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees
February 14, 1986

So these laws that Bundy are fighting (or he simply is at the point of not even acknowledging them or the federal government) were put into place by "conservative hero" Ronald Reagan. So my point is, it is not a Libertarian position to have to support Clive Bundy at all, some will choose to and these will be the extremists who don't recognize the federal government at all. Wouldn't it be convenient if any time someone was violating a federal law they could simply say "I don't recognize your authority!!1" and be off scott free? This is nothing even close to resembling the American Revolution either, since Cliven and his "militia" crew are about 500 strong who claim to not recognize the federal government, they would absolutely be crushed if they wanted to take this to a trade of force as the feds really did consider them a "foreign invader/terrorist." The feds could literally blow up his entire ranch with not even leaving their computer with drone strikes, so its a pretty stupid fight if he wants to take it to force, like a real revolution in 1776, so basically his only strategy is to try to "garner sympathy" with the American public, I guess that's what the whole "women and children" strategy was - a PR move, and thats what this whole thing is, which is why it is despicable to put the lives of these innocent Oathkeepers, and people helping him using their lives as a way to get public attention. On the sympathy note, which is all this is, there are plenty of other Americans more deserving of sympathy, like people who literally are in poverty, living 6 to an apartment, who have lost their homes, and the eroding middle class. The graduate with 100k in student loans with no jobs, the list goes on and on ... thats why I think it is ridiculous for this multimillionaire inheritee thousand acre land owner to by crying like a baby over not wanting to pay a few dollars a month to graze his cattle on other peoples land.

So basically if he doesn't recognize the feds as legitimate, that makes him an illegal immigrant and we should deport him with ICE Or maybe give his land back to the native americans/mexicans who were there before him?



That being said, I do disagree with the BLM show of force as well, it was very heavy handed, even if they were legally in the right, they didn't grasp the situation well as it is not worth losing human lives over. The Government can simply sit back and take him apart piecemeal by attacking his IRS refund, attaching liens on his bank accounts etc and waiting till he brings the cattle to market and placing a lien on the funds at that time.

You have just spouted the perfect progressive agenda while validating an unconstitutional EO and the unconstitutional grabbing of land by the feds. AND, all the while deriding a man who actually works for a living and has some bucks.

You've never been a rancher/farmer have you? It's a lot of work and not always much pay- no matter how many migrant workers you have.

Man, have you got a lot to learn.