imagine Nang what a miserable life it must be not to fully trust in Jesus' finished workOriginally Posted by Nang
"oops did I just sin? Will God forgive me? Will I lose my salvation"?
wow..........
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
I think the bottom line is people who do not believe in OSAS have a lack of faith in Jesus
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Bump for this post. I've never seen the claim that a number of passages of the Christian bible apply to non-believers and not Christians until I joined RPFs. This is a MAJOR stumbling block for me as far as accepting this concept. I'd like to see how you rationalize this. I may ask questions, but you have my word that my sarcasm will be gone in this case. I'm genuinely curious.
This is why I can't believe OSAS and Perseverance of the Saints. For me to believe it, I would have to believe that most of the bible was written for non-Christians to stay non-Christians. Many passages warn not to go back to prior sins. (Not rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious) Do you believe that these verses were written to tell non-Christians how to work their way to inherit the Kingdom with out our Lord's Grace?
I have yet to see a passage where either Jesus or an Epistle writer says, "If you believe in "Faith Alone," you may ignore these instructions." Where does it say this?So, the entire chapter is about unbelievers, not backsliding Christians.
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Anyone who does not have faith in God to keep them unto everlasting life, denies His Person, His purpose, His grace, and His gospel message.I think the bottom line is people who do not believe in OSAS have a lack of faith in Jesus
Yep. It is all about Him. . .
(John 5:24, John 11:25-26, John 14:6, Romans 4:5, Romans 10:9-13, Eph. 2:8-9, etc.), and the few places that do mention water baptism do not include it as part of one's salvation. Water baptism follows salvation as one of the first steps of obedience for the new believer.
TC- Every person in Acts 2 is a Mosaic law observing Old Testament Jew.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
It's the opposite. The bible gives us (Christians) directions. Those who have faith, hope and love in God do their best to follow His directions.I think the bottom line is people who do not believe in OSAS have a lack of faith in Jesus
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The reason these warnings are in Scripture, is because the visible earthly churches are filled with counterfeit believers; tares planted by the devil, who temporally co-exist amongst the wheat.
God is not mocked, but He is fair. He warns hypocrites who love to practice unbiblical religion, that they will not endure in their fakery.
?????
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
This happened after Christ's death and resurrection, and it was something Peter said.
SAID BETTER THAN ME
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Do you think you would still be saved and make it to heaven if you lost your faith and became an unbeliever? Can someone make it to heaven even if they're not a believer at the end of their lives?imagine Nang what a miserable life it must be not to fully trust in Jesus' finished work
wow..........
OF course they do. OSAS Believer's follow the Lord too; but we do not believe that anything other than what Jesus did for us saves us.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
where can you honestly see a Believer becoming a non-Believer? In my 41 years I have never met one.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
How Catholic of you.
People aren't half saved and half unsaved. People are either saved or they aren't saved. All of these verses that have been referenced are referring to believers. You can't depart from the faith if you never had faith to begin with.
1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
btw losing your faith is a misnomer. Losing faith does not equate to losing your salvation, which is permanent. Jesus finished that. Losing your faith- for a moment, a day or for a decade does not cause you to lose your eternal status as a child of God. Christians lose faith all the time. THESE THINGS are temporal, not eternal.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
what are you talking about?
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
I've known a lot and have read countless stories of people who have lost their faith and become an unbeliever. I think you've said that you believe in the concept of free will before, and as someone who believes in the concept of free will, I don't understand how you can say that people can't choose to turn away from God.
You believe that nothing we can do can ever merit our salvation, and it is only through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross that salvation is possible for us. Exactly what the Church has always taught
The fact that some people fall away from the faith does not mean that they were ever saved, but that they had professed to be Christians at some point in time. They knew about the Lord Jesus Christ and professed for a time to follow Him, but then they apostatized from the faith.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Ok, so what you're saying is that someone can lose their faith and die an unbeliever and still make it to heaven. That seems like a really liberal view to me. I just don't think it has any basis in the Bible.
so why do you add your sacraments, church membership, indulgences, etc etc?You believe that nothing we can do can ever merit our salvation, and it is only through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross that salvation is possible for us. Exactly what the Church has always taught
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
I never said that- YOU are equating losing faith with losing salvation- not the same; you can lose the faith, but not the salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
These fall away from their deceitful and hypocritical profession of faith, but they prove to never have been anointed with the Holy Spirit and brought into union with Jesus Christ. I John 4:19-19-20
Yeah, that just seems like parsing words to me. I don't think that it's possible to fall away from the faith if you weren't part of the faith to begin with. There's no such thing has half saved, half unsaved.
they can turn away from God but the HS still lives inside that Believer, he is still His sheep; He will not lose one.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
well, that is what I see from those that believe they can lose their salvation; saved, then unsaved.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
No, I think you did say that. If someone loses their faith and dies while they've lost the faith they once had, will that person go to heaven or not?
If that person believed in Jesus as Savior, of course. Losing your faith is not the same as losing your salvation; you did not earn your salvation, Jesus did.
Ephesians 2:8-9-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Thanks. That makes a little more sense to me, but...
Then why not say "Have Faith Alone," VS giving us directions on how to act in our lives.
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