So what is to be done about the people who can't afford the equilibrium price?

[Boshembechle]

We all know what a supply and demand curve graph looks like. The price at which they intersect determines what the price of a commodity will be and how much is produced. BUT, what should a society do about the people who fall on the right side of the point (looking at the demand curve)? Are they just completely left out of economic transactions? Why is if morally just that they are the ones who bear the brunt of the "scarcity" issue, rather than others?

[erowe1]

We all know what a supply and demand curve graph looks like. The price at which they intersect determines what the price of a commodity will be and how much is produced. BUT, what should a society do about the people who fall on the right side of the point (looking at the demand curve)? Are they just completely left out of economic transactions? Why is if morally just that they are the ones who bear the brunt of the "scarcity" issue, rather than others?

I don't get the question. People don't fall to the right of any point on a demand curve. People don't fall anywhere on a demand curve. Demand curves and supply curves chart the quantity of a good or service against its price.

[angelatc]

We've told him over and over that he doesn't understand what equilibrium price means. And it's painfully obvious he has never taken a single economics class, Keynesian or otherwise.

But that doesn't stop him from starting another troll thread.

[Boshembechle]

I don't get the question. People don't fall to the right of any point on a demand curve. People don't fall anywhere on a demand curve. Demand curves and supply curves chart the quantity of a good or service against its price.

But the very reason why more is demanded at lower prices if precisely because people of lower and lower means begin to demand the product at prices that are now feasible for them.

[angelatc]

But the very reason why more is demanded at lower prices if precisely because people of lower and lower means begin to demand the product at prices that are now feasible for them.

Is English not your first language? Or are you a product of those "free" schools you advocate for?

[Boshembechle]

Is English not your first language? Or are you a product of those "free" schools you advocate for?

What's wrong with my English?

[TheGrinch]

Then they will not demand what they cannot afford or don't want to pay, and will demand something else that they can afford and that someone will therefore supply to meet the demand.

Basically what you're saying is that poor people can't afford to shop at whole foods, so they shop at more affordable establishments with perhaps lesser quality goods. Yep, that's how the world works. You don't get steak for doing hamburger work.

There is nothing immoral about it, until you get into why more people can barely afford prices at normal grocery stores (inflation of the money supply).

[HVACTech]

I don't get the question. People don't fall to the right of any point on a demand curve. People don't fall anywhere on a demand curve. Demand curves and supply curves chart the quantity of a good or service against its price.

classic irony here folks. of course people fall on a demand curve.
unless...

"I’m not a libertarian. I’m not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot."

now that right there... is some good advice.

[TheGrinch]

But the very reason why more is demanded at lower prices if precisely because people of lower and lower means begin to demand the product at prices that are now feasible for them.

Look, if they really demand the product, then the price will come down as much as it can to still retain profits while growing the business with more customers. Prices generally go down on everything as the newness wears off and competitino arises anyway...

But I don't know what you're looking for if you want businesses to not make sufficient profits just so that more people have access to it. It simply cannot work that way, and few would want to own a business if they had that burden of sacrificing their profit for others to gain in theirs.

The equilibrium price is set there because that's what it takes for the business to be most sustainable. These people who take enormous financial risk cannot simply act as a charity, or they'll go out of business.

[angelatc]

What's wrong with my English?

Seriously?

But the very reason why that more is demanded at lower prices if is precisely because people of lower and lower means begin to demand the product at (a) prices that are is now feasible for them.

[erowe1]

But the very reason why more is demanded at lower prices if precisely because people of lower and lower means begin to demand the product at prices that are now feasible for them.

False.

[erowe1]

classic irony here folks. of course people fall on a demand curve.

No they don't. One axis is quantity, the other is price. That's it.

[HVACTech]

We've told him over and over that he doesn't understand what equilibrium price means. And it's painfully obvious he has never taken a single economics class, Keynesian or otherwise.

But that doesn't stop him from starting another troll thread.

OK. my bad....
I am new/old here.

[Root]

classic irony here folks. of course people fall on a demand curve.
unless...

"I’m not a libertarian. I’m not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot."

now that right there... is some good advice.

I'm not a libertarian either, but I do advocate running around with no clothes and smoking (vaping) pot.

[TheGrinch]

No they don't. One axis is quantity, the other is price. That's it.

Say what? A supply/demand curve is just that, supply vs. demand. Demand represents the amount who desire the product at that price. Where the two interest determines equilibrium price (theoretically anyway, and vastly oversimplified without other factors, but if we're talking Econ 101).

It's not even up for debate, here's just one of thousands of images:

[Boshembechle]

Then they will not demand what they cannot afford or don't want to pay, and will demand something else that they can afford and that someone will therefore supply to meet the demand.

Basically what you're saying is that poor people can't afford to shop at whole foods, so they shop at more affordable establishments with perhaps lesser quality goods. Yep, that's how the world works. You don't get steak for doing hamburger work.

There is nothing immoral about it, until you get into why more people can barely afford prices at normal grocery stores (inflation of the money supply).

What about for things like cars or houses? Sure cars vary widely in price, but even the cheapo ones are still out of reach for people. You can't compare food prices to car prices. No one that makes even the lowest wage finds it difficult to buy food.

[MelissaWV]

"What is to be done..."

Since I have no power to take over someone else's life, those who cannot afford the price of healthcare (and let's face it, that's what ALL of these threads by this OP are about) will have to decide for themselves what is to be done.

Will they work to get a different job? Will they pool resources? Will they buy cheaper insurance (catastrophic... well... at least if it's allowed, which it kind of isn't anymore)? Will they seek alternative medical treatments they can conduct at home for less serious injuries/illnesses? Will they approach a teaching or charitable hospital for care? Will they fundraise? Will they work together with the drug companies to get free/reduced medication? Will they forego care? Will they ask for help?

Strangely, all of your threads seem to assume that people aren't still going to have to do that very thing under ObamaCare.

Your new insurance is not a blank check. There are limits to its use --- a lot of them. You don't get billions of dollars in free care or something. It's still a policy and it still has a lot of clauses and restrictions. What on earth are people who can't afford insurance supposed to do to meet a deductible in the thousands? Or an out of pocket that goes on and on and on? What happens when you reach your maximum or your doctor mysteriously isn't covered even though the policy said they were in network when you signed up?

[erowe1]

Say what? A supply/demand curve is just that, supply vs. demand. Demand represents the amount who desire the product at that price. Where the two interest determines price (theoretically anyway).

It's not even up for debate, here's just one of thousands of images:

Notice that the labels of the two axes on that image are exactly the same two things I said in the quote you just gave.

No, demand does not represent "the amount who desire the product at that price." It represents the amount of the product desired, not the amount of the people who desire it. Quantity is the quantity of the product, and price is the price of the product.

You were right about this not being up for debate.

[angelatc]

What about for things like cars or houses? Sure cars vary widely in price, but even the cheapo ones are still out of reach for people. You can't compare food prices to car prices. No one that makes even the lowest wage finds it difficult to buy food.

Come to Michigan. I will buy you a house for $1.00.



http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...85-64818?row=2

[HVACTech]

I'm not a libertarian either, but I do advocate running around with no clothes and smoking (vaping) pot.

pot can be vaped?

methinks your physics classes... missed something.

[MelissaWV]

What about for things like cars or houses? Sure cars vary widely in price, but even the cheapo ones are still out of reach for people. You can't compare food prices to car prices. No one that makes even the lowest wage finds it difficult to buy food.

Actually that's bull. I have found it incredibly difficult to buy food in the past, and obviously that is not a singular experience (hence soup kitchens, food stamps, food pantries, etc.).

A car is not a damned necessity. "Even the lowest wage" can afford to walk or take the bus from time to time (a lot of churches will provide you with a bus pass, actually, so it's totally free of charge).

[TheGrinch]

What about for things like cars or houses? Sure cars vary widely in price, but even the cheapo ones are still out of reach for people. You can't compare food prices to car prices. No one that makes even the lowest wage finds it difficult to buy food.

Owning car isn't a right.

Cars aren't cheap to make.

There are companies like Kia that cater to the lower-end car buyers, but they can't give them away for less than their desired profit to make it worth their while. Many of these smaller companies probably are foregoing big profits in the name of getting their name out there by selling cars, but they can't jsut give them away. If you could profit making cars that are affordable for everyone, then someone will. That's the beauty of competition.

Consumers also determine what they're willing to pay. If they don't buy it at a price, then the price will have to come down for them to sell it. That's how a demand curve works, not however it is you think it does.

[Root]

pot can be vaped?

methinks your physics classes... missed something.

Oh hell yeah it can.

Physics class??

[TheGrinch]

Notice that the labels of the two axes on that image are exactly the same two things I said in the quote you just gave.

No, demand does not represent "the amount who desire the product at that price." It represents the amount of the product desired, not the amount of the people who desire it. Quantity is the quantity of the product, and price is the price of the product.

You were right about this not being up for debate.

Okay, you're talking about axes. We're talknig about a demand curve on those axes, which includes people and does exist on a supply/demand curve. I'm not sure what you think it is you're arguing.

[erowe1]

We're talknig about a demand curve on those axes, which includes people

No it doesn't. The variables of those two axes are the only ones on the graph. It's quantity of the product versus price of the product. That's it. There's no measure of number of people of any kind doing anything, who want anything, who buy anything, who sell anything, or anything else, anywhere on the graph in either the supply curve or the demand curve. The only two variables are p and q. You want something that has people on it, you need a different graph.

[erowe1]

I'm not sure what you think it is you're arguing.

The OP made reference to "people who fall on the right side of the point (looking at the demand curve)."

Well, there is no such thing, as you can see on the graph you provided. That's what I'm arguing.

[mad cow]

Is this your YouTube channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/boshembechle

Are you trolling there or are you trolling here?


boshembechle commented
There is not one person in the world that regrets leaving a communist country.

boshembechle commented
What ever happened to personal responsibilty? Liberals and Europeans (who have no right to say anything about America or its politics) love to say that high health care costs are a result of greed and the "evil insurance companies". What they conveniently fail to mention is that the health industry IS THE MOST REGULATED private industry in America. Since the early 1990's, the government has passed regulation after regulation on our health care providers, and the cost has increased ever since.

boshembechle commented
Socialism fails because it goes against human nature. It is also, morally speaking, the most evil philosophy to ever emerge out of human thought.

boshembechle commented
If Socialism and Communism work, why aren't people immigrating in droves to Cuba or North Korea. Why weren't people risking their lives trying to get to East Berlin? If communism works, why has it never been successful. If Capitalism doesn't work, why did it never need modifications or multiple tries. Bottom line, the liberal myth that Socialism is good for the working class is the biggest myth in the history of Humanity.


And so on...

[HVACTech]

No they don't. One axis is quantity, the other is price. That's it.

in case you did not notice.

I am HVACTech.

[erowe1]

in case you did not notice.

I am HVACTech.

Pardon my rudeness. Nice to meet you. I'm erowe1.

[TheGrinch]

The OP made reference to "people who fall on the right side of the point (looking at the demand curve)."

Well, there is no such thing, as you can see on the graph you provided. That's what I'm arguing.

I gotcha now. It was incredibly poorly phrased, and yes he does not understand how it works, but a demand curve does essentially measure the amount of people willing and able to purchase at a particular price, because you cannot have quantity sold without people buying at that price. Products sold are people buying, same thing essentially.

Anyways, not worth arguing about.