Yahoo comments on Bundy Ranch are depressing.

[pcosmar]

which ones?

and what constitutes a patriot movement group that he can't claim he is one himself?

The point was Wiki is not a good source of facts.

Agenda driven posters and editors change it all the time.

It is a reference point at best,, but not an authoritative source.

[DamianTV]

This is to be expected when the average IQ is 100.

Todays 100 is the equivilant of <70 or Moron 20 years ago. The number is skewed because of the overwhelming stupidity of too many people that do not try to think.

[PRB]

The point was Wiki is not a good source of facts.

Agenda driven posters and editors change it all the time.

It is a reference point at best,, but not an authoritative source.

I agree, so back to my question, what groups rejected him and what constitutes a patriot group which would exclude his lone wolf action as part of it?

[klamath]

I agree, so back to my question, what groups rejected him and what constitutes a patriot group which would exclude his lone wolf action as part of it?

back to my question. Does the government have the right to close off all federally own public land to all use?

[PRB]

back to my question. Does the government have the right to close off all federally own public land to all use?

I think that's what ownership means, the right to close off whenever one wants, short of agreed contract to the contrary.

[CPUd]

Why?

Why not?

Oh,, and people do cut trees in the national forest.. If they have the right connections and have paid the bribes.

I can get a permit to collect dead wood.

If someone is going into the park and doing damage, I see it as infringement on the right for others to use and enjoy the park.

I know that kind of stuff happens without repercussions.

You didn't answer the question. Does the government have the right to shut it down, remove all land from public use?

I don't think they should be able to deny public access if it was otherwise open to the public, not like they did during the last 'shutdown'.

I think that's what ownership means, the right to close off whenever one wants, short of agreed contract to the contrary.

Could apply to stewardship, too.

[pcosmar]

If someone is going into the park and doing damage, I see it as infringement on the right for others to use and enjoy the park.

I know that kind of stuff happens without repercussions.

I said nothing about a park.. and the question was in regards to National Forrest. (wilderness/unimproved)

I would agree with a Park type environment..but those are usually set up and maintained by the local people,, who would also protect that local space.

[pcosmar]

I agree, so back to my question, what groups rejected him and what constitutes a patriot group which would exclude his lone wolf action as part of it?

Start another thread and don't derail this one.

[RonPaulMall]

How many of those comments are NSA sock puppets though? I get that there are a lot of Americans buying in to the MSM and Government propaganda when it comes to the Bundy story, but my guess is most of the comments are coming from the far left (which has sadly become rabidly authoritarian now that "their' guy is doing the oppression) and the bulk of the rest are coming from the government itself. I don't think the average Republican or Independent is siding against the Bundys so much.

[pcosmar]

How many of those comments are NSA sock puppets though?.

My thoughts regarding many comment sections.

[klamath]

If someone is going into the park and doing damage, I see it as infringement on the right for others to use and enjoy the park.

I know that kind of stuff happens without repercussions.





I don't think they should be able to deny public access if it was otherwise open to the public, not like they did during the last 'shutdown'.






Could apply to stewardship, too.

Why shouldn't they be able to deny public acess?

[Ender]

back to my question. Does the government have the right to close off all federally own public land to all use?

Wrong question.

The fed gov has no right to "own" any land- with the possible exception of DC.

[FloralScent]

Anyone who thinks the PTB are going to give up trying to control the narrative just because they no longer have full control of the media is naive. I'm sure they can afford to keep thousands of fake accounts active. Hell, Yahoo is probably trolling their own comments.

[GunnyFreedom]

You didn't answer the question. Does the government have the right to shut it down, remove all land from public use?

To be fair, the best I can do here is "a qualified maybe."

The first question you have to ask is if a given piece of land is legitimately (legally, Constitutionally) owned and the vast majority of it is not.

If it is not legitimately owned by DC, then they have no authority to shutter it. This applies to the Bundy Ranch debacle.

Property that IS legitimately owned by Washington DC, I think is use-context dependant. A Federal Courthouse, for example is an example of a property they could shutter. An open air monument on public (federal!) land is again further conditional on whether the monument is undergoing maintenance or subject to a credible threat. Otherwise, largely, no they still wouldn't have the power to shutter it. A military base or a DOD R&D facility, a CIA spook warehouse, such things I would think would require being shut, on account of the purpose and maintenance of a military force, but to the extent authorized under 2 year Army appropriations and a non-standing army policy.

[CPUd]

Why shouldn't they be able to deny public acess?

I don't know of anything that gives them the power to do that.

They could restrict access, on the basis that without the restriction, one person would be infringing on the right of another. But that is a slippery slope.

[klamath]

I don't know of anything that gives them the power to do that.

They could restrict access, on the basis that without the restriction, one person would be infringing on the right of another. But that is a slippery slope.

That slippery slope is the exact point I Am making. They believe they DO have the power to restrict use of those lands all the way up to public access. All they have to do is to say it is harming the land. I HAVE seen it stated that people walking or visiting is harming the land a wildldlife. To Bundy running those cattle that his family has been doing for over a hundred years is their same right you feel you have walking or visiting the public lands. I have been almost exactly in Bundy's shoes. It is NOT just a federal attempt at reasonable regulation to manage the land for everyone. They wanted us gone. Protecting the public land is the catchphrase they use. In a heartbeat they will do far more damage in the name of managing the land. If you want examples I can relate them.

[Madison320]

You didn't answer the question. Does the government have the right to shut it down, remove all land from public use?

Which is farther, to Los Angeles or by bus?

I don't think the question has a good answer. The problem is that the land is owned by government. It should be private. I think you are trying to make logic out of an illogical situation.

[klamath]

Which is farther, to Los Angeles or by bus?

I don't think the question has a good answer. The problem is that the land is owned by government. It should be private. I think you are trying to make logic out of an illogical situation.

No I am dealing with the realities of the country and trying to explain western land use policies to people that aren't familiar with it. The government for years has had the upper hand at selling to the general public what they are doing. What they say and what they are doing are two different things and it is very complicated to explain.

[jonhowe]

Start another thread and don't derail this one.

You brought it up. Can you at least tell us where to find such info?

[pcosmar]

You brought it up. Can you at least tell us where to find such info?

Google, Bing, Library, Newsprint microfilm.
History.

I use my memory. and "bringing it up" was just in reference to Wiki being a poor source.

[Madison320]

No I am dealing with the realities of the country and trying to explain western land use policies to people that aren't familiar with it. The government for years has had the upper hand at selling to the general public what they are doing. What they say and what they are doing are two different things and it is very complicated to explain.

I agree with you that the environmentalists are trying to remove everyone. My guess is that the environmentalist movement is going to take a big hit when the dollar collapses along with our standard of living. People aren't going to give a crap about endangered tortoises when they are struggling to find food and shelter. Look at socialist places like Greece and Russia, they can't even feed their pets anymore.

[pcosmar]

I agree with you that the environmentalists are trying to remove everyone. My guess is that the environmentalist movement is going to take a big hit when the dollar collapses along with our standard of living. People aren't going to give a crap about endangered tortoises when they are struggling to find food and shelter. Look at socialist places like Greece and Russia, they can't even feed their pets anymore.

Turtles make good soup.

[tod evans]

Turtles make good soup.

Exactly what I was thinking....

[Carlybee]

back to my question. Does the government have the right to close off all federally own public land to all use?

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...-cattle-grazes

[Deborah K]

Todays 100 is the equivilant of <70 or Moron 20 years ago. The number is skewed because of the overwhelming stupidity of too many people that do not try to think.

[MelissaCato]

I dunno, but this Bundy Ranch deal is getting the attention of alot of retired police officers in support of the Bundy's. I handed out all my literature I had on the OathKeepers and I could use some more. I waitress at a small local diner ... of all things to get their attention and in the conversation .. the Bundy's did it.

I need more literature but don't want to wait weeks for it. The conversation is NOW !!!

If anyone can send me more literature within a couple days - let me know !! Please.

I have a paypal account.

[FloralScent]

Todays 100 is the equivilant of <70 or Moron 20 years ago. The number is skewed because of the overwhelming stupidity of too many people that do not try to think.

I'd be much happier if my brain would shut-the-$#@!-up and just let me enjoy the mind-numbing 'entertainment' that all the other stupids seem to enjoy. I see an agenda in everything now, which pretty much squashes 99% of movies, TV and small talk. I see why they try not to think. I wish I had that 'gift'.

[tod evans]

I'd be much happier if my brain would shut-the-$#@!-up and just let me enjoy the mind-numbing 'entertainment' that all the other stupids seem to enjoy. I see an agenda in everything now, which pretty much squashes 99% of movies, TV and small talk. I see why they try not to think. I wish I had that 'gift'.

Lobotomy has proven effective....

[FloralScent]

Lobotomy has proven effective....

If I jab it in there far enough perhaps it'll give me an appreciation for rap music, Jerry Springer, and Time magazine.

[osan]

Willful ignorance. Nothing more, nothing less. Those people do not bother to question the opinion they are being handed. It also shows how powerful propaganda is.

Powerful only because those upon whom it works are so stupid or stoopid. This may seem a semantic nit, but I believe it is always important to phrase ideas correctly down to the... well, nits. It is the human at fault here, not the propaganda. Were people not rotten to their innermost cores, propaganda would have zero power. Right and clued-in humanity would ignore those who spread their lies and deceit, perhaps going so far as to even beating them on occasion, but never falling for the tricks.

Propaganda is nothing without the people whose responses the perpetrators seek.