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Thread: How Will Others Know That We Are Christians?

  1. #1

    How Will Others Know That We Are Christians?

    How Will Others Know That We Are Christians?


    Posted on April 15, 2014
    by Fr. Ted
    link here

    The hymns from Great and Holy Monday give us some indication as to what it means to be a Christian. Orthodoxy places a lot of emphasis on fasting during Lent, and yet fasting is not the goal of the spiritual life. In the three hymns, below, we find some of the goals of the Christian spiritual life which were what we should have been aiming toward throughout Great Lent.

    “By this will all men know that you are my disciples,” said the Savior to His friends as He went to His passion, “if you will keep my commandments. Be at peace among yourselves and with all men. Think humbly of yourselves and you will be exalted. And, knowing that I am the Lord, you will sing and exalt me throughout all ages.”


    Christ teaches us that people will be able to identify the disciples of Christ, not by how ascetical they are, how strictly they keep fasting rules, but if we keep Christ’s commandments. While Christ commands a variety of things in the Gospels, we see a particular emphasis in what He commands:

    “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

    “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.“ (John 13:34-35)


    “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.“ (John 15:12)


    We are identifiable as Christ’s disciples, according to our Lord, when we love as He loved us, when we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and when we love others as we love ourselves. If we fail in these commandments to love, then we are not recognizable as Orthodox Christians, and all the Lenten self-denial in the world will not make us His disciples.

    “The mother of Zebedee’s Children, Lord, could not understand the ineffable mystery of your dispensation. She asked the honor of a temporal kingdom for her sons, but instead you promised your friends that they should drink the cup of death, a cup that you would drink before them for the cleansing of sins. Therefore, we cry out to you: O Salvation of our souls, glory to You!”

    Discipleship, fasting, abstinence, self-control or self-denial will not help establish the Kingdom of God in this world. They actually are world denying and teaching us to live for the Kingdom of Heaven. We are not fasting in order to earn the right to sit at the right and left hand of Christ our Lord. That thinking purely belongs to the fallen world. We are trying to learn the values of Christ’s Kingdom, which means learning to deny the self in order to truly love and to move away from the self-serving, self-love we sometimes mistakenly think is what a Christian should aim for. We are not trying to bribe God, pay God or manipulate God. Our goal is to love God. If Lenten efforts don’t bring us to that end, they have “missed the mark” (aka: ‘sin’; Greek: hamartia).

    “You taught Your disciples, Lord, to desire what is perfect, saying: ‘Be not like the Gentiles, who oppress the weak. It shall not be so with you, My disciples. For of My own will I am poor. Let the first among you, therefore, be the servant of all. Let the ruler be like those who are ruled. Let him who is first be like the last. For I have come to serve Adam in His poverty, and to give My life as a ransom for the many who cry to Me: O Lord, glory to Your!‘”


    Christ came to earth, and descended into Hades in order to serve Adam. Christ comes to earth as a servant, to meet the needs of humanity. He didn’t come to earth to become rich and powerful. He was rich and powerful before leaving the divine throne to become incarnate on earth.

    “... our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich.” (2 Corinthians 8:9)

    Christ gave up riches and power in order to serve us. He didn’t come into the world as some powerful war lord or conquering emperor. Rather He came humbly, riding on the ass into Jerusalem. And humbly He went to Hades, as a servant, in order to serve humanity and lift us from our impoverished condition. Christ raises us from the dead. He does the heavy lifting and the work of a servant to free us from our enslavement. He became the slave so that we might become rich with the blessings of divinity.

    “Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
    who, though he was in the form of God,
    did not regard equality with God
    as something to be exploited,
    but emptied himself,
    taking the form of a slave,
    being born in human likeness.
    And being found in human form,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to the point of death—
    even death on a cross.”

    (Philippians 2:4-8)


    We are to become Christ-like, we are to imitate Christ by serving one another. Lent is supposed to be a time in which we learn how to be Christ-like, how to serve others rather than try to lord it over them. Christ served sinners. He came into the world to save sinners, not the righteous (1 Timothy 1:15; Luke 5:32). That is who He descended into Hades to liberate. He didn’t come into the world to make the living, but rather to make the dead to live. Our ministry is to proclaim this Good News to everyone in the world, and even to the dead.

    “For the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.” (2 Corinthians 5:14-15)

    Our ministry is to give life to the world. Great Lent and Holy Week are designed to help us gain this focus and to attain this goal. We are to serve the same people that Christ came into the world to save.

    Last edited by TER; 04-15-2014 at 12:13 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  3. #2

  4. #3

    By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

    - Jesus Christ (John 13:35)
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post

    By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

    - Jesus Christ (John 13:35)


    And when we obey God's commandments.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    How Will Others Know That We Are Christians?


    Posted on April 15, 2014
    by Fr. Ted
    link here

    The hymns from Great and Holy Monday give us some indication as to what it means to be a Christian. Orthodoxy places a lot of emphasis on fasting during Lent, and yet fasting is not the goal of the spiritual life. In the three hymns, below, we find some of the goals of the Christian spiritual life which were what we should have been aiming toward throughout Great Lent.

    “By this will all men know that you are my disciples,” said the Savior to His friends as He went to His passion, “if you will keep my commandments. Be at peace among yourselves and with all men. Think humbly of yourselves and you will be exalted. And, knowing that I am the Lord, you will sing and exalt me throughout all ages.”


    Christ teaches us that people will be able to identify the disciples of Christ, not by how ascetical they are, how strictly they keep fasting rules, but if we keep Christ’s commandments. While Christ commands a variety of things in the Gospels, we see a particular emphasis in what He commands:

    “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

    “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.“ (John 13:34-35)

    “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.“ (John 15:12)


    We are identifiable as Christ’s disciples, according to our Lord, when we love as He loved us, when we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and when we love others as we love ourselves. If we fail in these commandments to love, then we are not recognizable as Orthodox Christians, and all the Lenten self-denial in the world will not make us His disciples.

    “The mother of Zebedee’s Children, Lord, could not understand the ineffable mystery of your dispensation. She asked the honor of a temporal kingdom for her sons, but instead you promised your friends that they should drink the cup of death, a cup that you would drink before them for the cleansing of sins. Therefore, we cry out to you: O Salvation of our souls, glory to You!”

    Discipleship, fasting, abstinence, self-control or self-denial will not help establish the Kingdom of God in this world. They actually are world denying and teaching us to live for the Kingdom of Heaven. We are not fasting in order to earn the right to sit at the right and left hand of Christ our Lord. That thinking purely belongs to the fallen world. We are trying to learn the values of Christ’s Kingdom, which means learning to deny the self in order to truly love and to move away from the self-serving, self-love we sometimes mistakenly think is what a Christian should aim for. We are not trying to bribe God, pay God or manipulate God. Our goal is to love God. If Lenten efforts don’t bring us to that end, they have “missed the mark” (aka: ‘sin’; Greek: hamartia).

    “You taught Your disciples, Lord, to desire what is perfect, saying: ‘Be not like the Gentiles, who oppress the weak. It shall not be so with you, My disciples. For of My own will I am poor. Let the first among you, therefore, be the servant of all. Let the ruler be like those who are ruled. Let him who is first be like the last. For I have come to serve Adam in His poverty, and to give My life as a ransom for the many who cry to Me: O Lord, glory to Your!‘”


    Christ came to earth, and descended into Hades in order to serve Adam. Christ comes to earth as a servant, to meet the needs of humanity. He didn’t come to earth to become rich and powerful. He was rich and powerful before leaving the divine throne to become incarnate on earth.

    “... our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich.” (2 Corinthians 8:9)

    Christ gave up riches and power in order to serve us. He didn’t come into the world as some powerful war lord or conquering emperor. Rather He came humbly, riding on the ass into Jerusalem. And humbly He went to Hades, as a servant, in order to serve humanity and lift us from our impoverished condition. Christ raises us from the dead. He does the heavy lifting and the work of a servant to free us from our enslavement. He became the slave so that we might become rich with the blessings of divinity.

    “Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
    who, though he was in the form of God,
    did not regard equality with God
    as something to be exploited,
    but emptied himself,
    taking the form of a slave,
    being born in human likeness.
    And being found in human form,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to the point of death—
    even death on a cross.”

    (Philippians 2:4-8)


    We are to become Christ-like, we are to imitate Christ by serving one another. Lent is supposed to be a time in which we learn how to be Christ-like, how to serve others rather than try to lord it over them. Christ served sinners. He came into the world to save sinners, not the righteous (1 Timothy 1:15; Luke 5:32). That is who He descended into Hades to liberate. He didn’t come into the world to make the living, but rather to make the dead to live. Our ministry is to proclaim this Good News to everyone in the world, and even to the dead.

    “For the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.” (2 Corinthians 5:14-15)

    Our ministry is to give life to the world. Great Lent and Holy Week are designed to help us gain this focus and to attain this goal. We are to serve the same people that Christ came into the world to save.

    What a beautiful post TER!!
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    And when we obey God's commandments.
    What did Jesus say was the most important one?
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
    What did Jesus say was the most important one?



    We are to first love God with all our minds, and our hearts, by keeping the first four commandments of the Decalogue

    and we are to love others, which is covered by obeying the last six commandments of the Decalogue.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post

    By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

    - Jesus Christ (John 13:35)
    Amen.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!



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  11. #9
    Great thread, and timely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
    What did Jesus say was the most important one?
    I have Nang on ignore, so I'll answer. It is a two-fold commandment: love God with your whole heart, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    And when we obey God's commandments.
    Why is the "and" necessary?

    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.“ (John 13:34-35)

    It seems obvious to me that Christ expects "love" to be demonstrated by how we behave to one another. Is it ok to insult, demean, and harass each other if the objective is to save souls? I see two different viewpoints on this here.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Why is the "and" necessary?

    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.“ (John 13:34-35)

    It seems obvious to me that Christ expects "love" to be demonstrated by how we behave to one another. Is it ok to insult, demean, and harass each other if the objective is to save souls? I see two different viewpoints on this here.
    I agree with you. No argument, other than to point out the commands Jesus gave as recorded by John, encapsulates the Ten Commandments in their entirety.

    The first four commands of the Decalogue reveal how to love God, and the last six commands in the Decalogue reveal how to love our neighbors.

    Same Law in both the O.T. and the N.T.

    God's Moral Law is eternal . . . Matthew 24:35

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    I agree with you. No argument, other than to point out the commands Jesus gave as recorded by John, encapsulates the Ten Commandments in their entirety.
    Was it Jesus' intent to encapsulate the old law, or to expand upon them with a new morality?

    Succinctly, Christ commanded "Thou Shalt", the OT commanded, "Thou shalt NOT".
    How is your love for your neighbor demonstrated by NOT stealing his goat? One can follow all the ten commandments and still be a miserable prick.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Was it Jesus' intent to encapsulate the old law, or to expand upon them with a new morality?

    Jesus meant to encapsulate and validate the moral Law. Same Law.

    Succinctly, Christ commanded "Thou Shalt", the OT commanded, "Thou shalt NOT".
    How is your love for your neighbor demonstrated by NOT stealing his goat? One can follow all the ten commandments and still be a miserable prick.
    This is a true and important observation.

    Prior to Christ's incarnation, the Moral Law only condemned men, because none of them could live up to it. It was a negative.

    However, because of Christ's perfect fulfillment of the Ten Commandments, He qualified to impute His righteousness to His spiritual offspring, and now the Moral Law is a positive for the sons of God. Reformers call these positive commands from Jesus, a new and "Third Use of the Law" which is the guideline for Christians to live holy lives accordingly.

    The first two purposes of the Law were:

    1. Reveal to men the extent of their sinfulness.

    2. To draw them to their need of a Savior.

    This third use of the Law, which legal demands and obligations have all been met, in Christ, now becomes a genuine blessing and a lamp unto our feet in our state of Sanctification. Saved sinners are not only given a positive love for God and for their fellow man (due to the curse of enmity being removed in Christ), but they are also given a positive love for God's Law (read David's love for the Law in Psalm 119!) . . . for after all, the Law and Commands of God are synonymous with His Word, are they not?
    Last edited by Nang; 04-15-2014 at 01:03 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Saved sinners are not only given a positive love for God and for their fellow man (due to the curse of enmity being removed in Christ), but they are also given a positive love for God's Law
    So one only loves his brother AFTER he is saved? What's the point of having the commandment, then?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Was it Jesus' intent to encapsulate the old law, or to expand upon them with a new morality?

    Succinctly, Christ commanded "Thou Shalt", the OT commanded, "Thou shalt NOT".
    How is your love for your neighbor demonstrated by NOT stealing his goat? One can follow all the ten commandments and still be a miserable prick.
    Luke 17:20 And when the Pharisees had demanded of Him when the Kingdom of God should come, He answered them and said, “The Kingdom of God cometh not with outward show.
    21 Neither shall they say, ‘Lo, it is here!’ or ‘Lo, it is there!’ For behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”

    I John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
    12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us.
    13 Hereby we know that we dwell in Him and He in us: because He hath given us of His Spirit.
    14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
    15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
    16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath for us. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
    17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the Day of Judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.
    18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
    19 We love Him, because He first loved us.
    20 If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
    21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loveth God love his brother also.

    I was reading some Steiner this morning on the very subject where he was discussing the change Jesus brought to mankind in relation to an awareness of internalness rather than externalness and the ego. Nothing was changed but everything changes when your heart is filled with Love as opposed to doing the Law as an external fulfillment rather than an internal experience of the kingdom and Spirit within.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    So one only loves his brother AFTER he is saved?
    Yep. All men are born under God's curse of enmity, due to Adam's disobedience. (Genesis 3:14-17)

    To remove this curse, Jesus Christ had to become a curse for those He redeemed. (Galatians 3:13)



    What's the point of having the commandment, then?
    The commandment (Law) came as part of the Covenant of Creation . . . PRIOR to Adam's corruption and punishments. And the Law of God is eternal. Just because Adam sinned, and no corrupted human being can live up to God's moral standard, does not make the Law invalid; nor does inability repeal God's Law. It is here to stay!


    The first two purposes of the Law were:

    1. Reveal to men the extent of their sinfulness.

    2. To draw them to their need of a Savior.
    Last edited by Nang; 04-15-2014 at 01:27 PM.

  21. #18
    Perhaps tattooing a large cross on your forehead would send the message to others.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Perhaps tattooing a large cross on your forehead would send the message to others.

    It would send a message, alright!

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    And when we obey God's commandments.
    I guess you and Sola_Fide aren't the same after all. At the very least you agree on the importance of obeying God's Commandments.

  24. #21

  25. #22
    Another idea, you could have some business cards printed up that say, "We are Christians" and then hand them out.

  26. #23
    How Will Others Know That We Are Christians?

    It's fairly plain and simple---

    Matthew 7:
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.



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