Do you want Jesse Benton involved in any capacity in Rand Paul 2016?

[jjdoyle]

I wholeheartedly believe that they were trying to win at the beginning, when there was a chance.

What's stupid is not to realize that it would take far more money than the others to compete against the 24x7 media onslaught smearing Ron Paul. Pretty much after Iowa, the donation spigot closed.

Do you know how many more millions they raised and wasted after Iowa? I'm just guessing you don't, based off your past ignorance regarding specific campaign finance issues.
But, of course the funds didn't come as often and as much after Iowa, New Hampshire, Maine, Virginia, or others...because they weren't winning. (They were helping Mitt Romney win instead.)

That's basic politics as to why the funds slowed down after Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Maine, Virginia, and the others though. If you aren't winning, you have a harder time raising funds. But the campaign kept on lying to supporters for months about some fake delegate strategy, which unfortunately for the campaign (but more so for the supporters), the supporters took them at their word. Doing exactly what was asked, and then some. Only to have delegates thrown under Mitt Romney's bus, because they didn't want to cause an issue at the RNC for King Romney.

If RP had said they would fight for the delegates at the RNC, make sure the rules were honored, and make sure the delegates that showed up and did as asked were honored and recognized, you and I both know the delegates could have raised a huge stink at the RNC. Instead, Jesse Benton was there trying to make sure the delegates weren't an issue.

They tried to win in Iowa. Perhaps you have forgotten what the media was doing to him at the time.

Yes, and the media was not singularly focused on sliming them, like they were Ron.

Herman Cain was done in by the media. And he even tried to address his issue in professional, sit down style, interviews. He even held a big press conference early on saying he would fight the charges. Sure, he might have been lying through his teeth about the issue, and I think he was, but that's the thing....he actually was semi-serious about winning. Because he was getting out in front of his issue, by holding a press conference. Having sit down interviews about it, with HIS wife present for one (maybe more).

I don't agree with everything the campaign did, either. But, neither did I think any candidate's campaign was run perfectly. But, you just ignore those.

You're 100% right. I do ignore those other candidates' campaigns, BECAUSE I WASN'T SUPPORTING THEM. LOL.
But, even I knew how to use another campaign to try and help Ron Paul in Iowa, since Ron Paul 2012 couldn't be bothered to do it themselves.

It's why I sent Rick Perry's campaign the Rick Santorum attack ad template I had made, because Ron Paul 2012 was busy turning grassroot supporters away from helping in Iowa, because the experts they were had it all under control. Too busy to attack Rick Santorum when it might have actually HELPED Ron Paul win a state. Instead, they waited until it helped Mitt Romney.
South Carolina. Where Ron Paul placed last. They ran attack ads against Rick Santorum. Why? He wasn't polling anywhere near the top in SC. It was all Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

[amonasro]

I voted no. Jesse is too young and inexperienced, simple as that. I also recall one or two press releases that had obvious spelling and/or grammatical errors. This can never happen, ever.

[LibertyEagle]

The first one-on-one state, Virginia, had not one single RP ad run in it. Not one single POSITIVE RP ad, or Romney attack ad.

Yes, and that was because they didn't feel there was a chance in hell of winning Virginia. So, spending money there would have been like throwing money down a rat hole.

All you have done since you have gotten here is do your best to make everyone here hate the people who worked for Ron's campaign. You know damn well that some of these people will most assuredly be working for Rand's if he runs for President. You're not fooling everyone here, bud, and hopefully your time here will be up soon.

[LibertyEagle]

Do you know how many more millions they raised and wasted after Iowa? I'm just guessing you don't, based off your past ignorance regarding specific campaign finance issues.
But, of course the funds didn't come as often and as much after Iowa, New Hampshire, Maine, Virginia, or others...because they weren't winning. (They were helping Mitt Romney win instead.)

That's basic politics as to why the funds slowed down after Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Maine, Virginia, and the others though. If you aren't winning, you have a harder time raising funds. But the campaign kept on lying to supporters for months about some fake delegate strategy, which unfortunately for the campaign (but more so for the supporters), the supporters took them at their word. Doing exactly what was asked, and then some. Only to have delegates thrown under Mitt Romney's bus, because they didn't want to cause an issue at the RNC for King Romney.

If RP had said they would fight for the delegates at the RNC, make sure the rules were honored, and make sure the delegates that showed up and did as asked were honored and recognized, you and I both know the delegates could have raised a huge stink at the RNC. Instead, Jesse Benton was there trying to make sure the delegates weren't an issue.



Herman Cain was done in by the media. And he even tried to address his issue in professional, sit down style, interviews. He even held a big press conference early on saying he would fight the charges. Sure, he might have been lying through his teeth about the issue, and I think he was, but that's the thing....he actually was semi-serious about winning. Because he was getting out in front of his issue, by holding a press conference. Having sit down interviews about it, with HIS wife present for one (maybe more).



You're 100% right. I do ignore those other candidates' campaigns, BECAUSE I WASN'T SUPPORTING THEM. LOL.
But, even I knew how to use another campaign to try and help Ron Paul in Iowa, since Ron Paul 2012 couldn't be bothered to do it themselves.

It's why I sent Rick Perry's campaign the Rick Santorum attack ad template I had made, because Ron Paul 2012 was busy turning grassroot supporters away from helping in Iowa, because the experts they were had it all under control. Too busy to attack Rick Santorum when it might have actually HELPED Ron Paul win a state. Instead, they waited until it helped Mitt Romney.
South Carolina. Where Ron Paul placed last. They ran attack ads against Rick Santorum. Why? He wasn't polling anywhere near the top in SC. It was all Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

All you do is twist and spin.

Hell yes they wanted to control who showed up in Iowa and what they did. They didn't want a repeat of what happened in Ron's first campaign. Do you remember some of the crap that went on? Do you? Fact is, there were a lot of well-meaning supporters who had less of a clue of how to win a campaign than even Ron's '08 campaign staff.

[jjdoyle]

All you do is twist and spin.

Hell yes they wanted to control who showed up in Iowa and what they did. They didn't want a repeat of what happened in Ron's first campaign. Do you remember some of the crap that went on? Do you? Fact is, there were a lot of well-meaning supporters who had less of a clue of how to win a campaign than even Ron's '08 campaign staff.

Ron Paul 2012 didn't feel like trying to win in Virginia, the first one-on-one state where Ron Paul lost by only 50,000 votes. But the campaign geniuses (and yourself) thought it was wise to waste funds down the rat hole attacking Rick Santorum in South Carolina and Michigan? You make no sense. None. You can't even explain that level of stupidity. It makes NO sense. Well, it makes no sense if they were actually being honest and running a campaign to win. Not help Mitt Romney win.

Two states Ron Paul where had LESS chance of winning, than Virginia. The campaign was a complete fraud and a joke, and this "Romney vs. Paul" idea holds no water, because of Virginia. The fact you are calling Virginia a rat hole, is beyond stupid and pathetic though, because it ignores the facts of the vote totals in the states and the fact that ONE RON PAUL SUPPORTER in Virginia did more to win RP delegates in the state (and did just that), than Ron Paul 2012 did with their political geniuses on staff.

Let that sink in. A state Ron Paul didn't spend a dime in, NOT ONE DIME, running one single positive or negative ad. He won 3 delegates BECAUSE OF A SUPPORTER. THAT guy should be hired on staff in 2016, but nobody within Ron Paul 2012.

I don't know what twisting and spinning you're talking about, because like Matt Collins, you can't logically address any of my points I bring up.

(Where's that yourlogicalfallacy link at? LOL)

You are clearly ignoring the facts/actions/non-actions of the campaign, or trying to excuse them by bringing up OTHER campaings. It's laughable. We, are not them. Last I checked, Ron Paul supporters don't want to be like THEM. Don't want candidates like THEM.

So, the campaign was incompetent and didn't know how to communicate well with the grassroots, yes, we know that. It's exactly what turning away supporters in Iowa is an exact example of. A good campaign will bring all supporters in, especially in an early state like Iowa, and give them talking points and informational cards to pass out. It's pretty EASY to spot problem workers, and DEAL with them properly. (Not like Jack Hunter refusing to answer simple questions, ignoring them, treating them like scum not worth being talked to, and then calling security on them.)

Fact is there were a lot of well-meaning supporters who had more of a clue of how to win a campaign, than ANYBODY on the staff at Ron Paul 2012. Unless of course, you believe that a presidential campaign is not actually supposed to be run to win, and instead only waste millions of dollars, lie to supporters about some fake delegate strategy, and drag it along for months for some "future" campaign.

You may twist and spin like Bill O'Reilly in his "no spin zone" because you can't explain stupid things like calling Virginia a rat hole, and not being able to explain why they wasted funds attacking Rick Santorum in states like South Carolina and Michigan; but I stick with facts/history/actions/non-actions to form my opinions.
Like the fact Ron Paul 2012 never ran one single Mitt Romney only TV attack ad, in any state, where it could have mattered. Even early states, like Maine where RP lost by less than 2% points in the popular vote.
Or, New Hampshire.
Or, Virginia.

Again, why was the campaign denying some supporters refunds in September 2012, when they were asking via email and sitting on a nice million+ cash-on-hand, and denying they had the funds that were being reported? Is it because they knew then about the Kent Sorenson issue, and thought they might need the funds for a long, drawn out, legal case?

There are plenty of reasons Jesse Benton, and other Ron Paul 2012 staff, should not be near Rand in 2016. Helping Mitt Romney win the nomination, agreeing to not attack Mitt Romney, is a BIG one.

[LibertyEagle]

What I know, doyle, is that YOU should be nowhere near the liberty movement. You may be fooling some, but you aren't fooling me.

[jjdoyle]

What I know, doyle, is that YOU should be nowhere near the liberty movement. You may be fooling some, but you aren't fooling me.

Sorry you can't handle the truth, because that is exactly what the liberty movement starts with.
Just because you may think the world is flat, doesn't make it flat.

I will continue to state the truth about what was and is Ron Paul 2012. After all, the campaign is technically still going, because it's paying two staffers each month, and sitting on over $900,000.

So again, another epic post by you not addressing a single point or fact I brought up. Because you don't KNOW much, and you THINK I shouldn't be anywhere near the movement, because apparently truth is toxic to you.

So, do you really think Jesse Benton should be anywhere on Rand's staff in 2016? Because, I don't. And there are numerous reasons. Some of which I have already stated, some others have already stated.

[LibertyEagle]

Sorry you can't handle the truth, because that is exactly what the liberty movement starts with.
Just because you may think the world is flat, doesn't make it flat.

I will continue to state the truth about what was and is Ron Paul 2012. After all, the campaign is technically still going, because it's paying two staffers each month, and sitting on over $900,000.

So again, another epic post by you not addressing a single point or fact I brought up. Because you don't KNOW much, and you THINK I shouldn't be anywhere near the movement, because apparently truth is toxic to you.

So, do you really think Jesse Benton should be anywhere on Rand's staff in 2016? Because, I don't. And there are numerous reasons. Some of which I have already stated, some others have already stated.

You have no truth. You have spin. Who is paying you to do this?

[ClydeCoulter]

What I know, doyle, is that YOU should be nowhere near the liberty movement. You may be fooling some, but you aren't fooling me.

Crap, you really got him there, huh?

[LibertyEagle]

Crap, you really got him there, huh?

You may want to continue this crap with him, but I do not. His agenda for being on this forum has been clear from the start. Check out his posting history.

[jjdoyle]

You may want to continue this crap with him, but I do not. His agenda for being on this forum has been clear from the start. Check out his posting history.

I think he's well aware of my history of stating facts/history/actions/non-actions of the campaign. I think he probably appreciates the truth, and doesn't find it toxic. Just because you can't answer legitimate points and criticisms, doesn't make them go away.

My agenda, is truth. And growing the movement with truth. Learning from past mistakes, so they are not repeated. Like not hiring incompetent, corrupt, dishonest campaign workers. Your agenda is apparently shrinking the movement, and trying to get rid of anybody that brings up legitimate criticisms and points you can't answer.

Instead of addressing the points, you go personal.

You have no truth. You have spin. Who is paying you to do this?

LOL. I'm not paid by anybody. If you or Matt can refer me to who pays y'all, I would appreciate it. I could use some extra funds.

Truths:
Ron Paul 2012 never ran one single Mitt Romney only TV attack ad in any state.
Ron Paul 2012 agreed to not attack Mitt Romney, no later than February 2012, and before the Michigan primary.
Ron Paul 2012 continued to ask supporters for more money for all of February, March, April, and into May; not telling supporters they had agreed to not attack Mitt Romney.
Ron Paul 2012 staffer Jesse Benton in May 2012 confirmed to the press that Ron Paul 2012 and Mitt Romney's campaign had already been talking, about things like what planks to put in the Republican platform at the RNC.
Ron Paul 2012's official campaign website was used to defend a lying endorsement of Mitt Romney.

All facts. All truths.

[phill4paul]

What I know, doyle, is that YOU should be nowhere near the liberty movement. You may be fooling some, but you aren't fooling me.

Telling us who should or should not be in YOUR liberty movement. I expected no less. Can you refute any of the points he has made?.

[LibertyEagle]

I think he's well aware of my history of stating facts/history/actions/non-actions of the campaign. I think he probably appreciates the truth, and doesn't find it toxic. Just because you can't answer legitimate points and criticisms, doesn't make them go away.

My agenda, is truth. And growing the movement with truth. Learning from past mistakes, so they are not repeated. Like not hiring incompetent, corrupt, dishonest campaign workers. Your agenda is apparently shrinking the movement, and trying to get rid of anybody that brings up legitimate criticisms and points you can't answer.

Instead of addressing the points, you go personal.



LOL. I'm not paid by anybody. If you or Matt can refer me to who pays y'all, I would appreciate it. I could use some extra funds.

Truths:
Ron Paul 2012 never ran one single Mitt Romney only TV attack ad in any state.
Ron Paul 2012 agreed to not attack Mitt Romney, no later than February 2012, and before the Michigan primary.
Ron Paul 2012 continued to ask supporters for more money for all of February, March, April, and into May; not telling supporters they had agreed to not attack Mitt Romney.
Ron Paul 2012 staffer Jesse Benton in May 2012 confirmed to the press that Ron Paul 2012 and Mitt Romney's campaign had already been talking, about things like what planks to put in the Republican platform at the RNC.
Ron Paul 2012's official campaign website was used to defend a lying endorsement of Mitt Romney.

All facts. All truths.

No, you are full of spin and lies. You claim they never intended to win. That is a lie. You claim that the reason they didn't go after Romney was because their goal was to help him win. Also a lie. You claim that they didn't campaign in certain states was because they were sold out. Another lie.

No one is paying me.

[LibertyEagle]

Telling us who should or should not be in YOUR liberty movement. I expected no less. Can you refute any of the points he has made?.

They have. He ignores them and keeps repeating the same spin.

[ClydeCoulter]

No, you are full of spin and lies. You claim they never intended to win. That is a lie. You claim that the reason they didn't go after Romney was because their goal was to help him win. Also a lie. You claim that they didn't campaign in certain states was because they were sold out. Another lie.

No one is paying me.

I didn't see those claims in the post you responded to. Care to actually take apart his "Truth" claims one by one in the post you replied to?

[cajuncocoa]

Yes, distancing some of the people at PF from the campaign was necessary.

Serious question: why?

If the campaign was over before Rand endorsed Romney, why does this matter?

[jjdoyle]

I didn't see those claims in the post you responded to. Care to actually take apart his "Truth" claims one by one in the post you replied to?

Don't hold your breath waiting on a truthful response.

Though, you might get one about the earth being flat. And if you disagree with that, you will be told you aren't needed in this movement. And you are liar for saying the earth is square. Even though you never said the earth was square.

[whoisjohngalt]

For those of you who refuse to support Rand simply because you dislike someone on his staff, realize that when Jeb Bush becomes President, you were complacent in allowing that to happen:


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...sidential-run/

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Support Rand blindly no matter what or else... or else.. JEB BUSH!

I smell the stink of desperation.

[kathy88]

You have no truth. You have spin. Who is paying you to do this?

Seriously? What the hell? His points are salient and there's a lot of evidence to back them up. 2012 was a nightmare. I think there are a lot of us here who agree with a lot of what he said and you're accusing him of being a paid shill? That's pretty harsh AND a violation of TOS.... in case you have not reviewed them lately.

[mosquitobite]

Facts:

1) Ron Paul 2012 never ran one single Mitt Romney only TV attack ad, like they did against Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and Newt Gingrich.

2) Ron Paul 2012 wasted funds, at least $100K, attacking Rick Santorum in Michigan, a state Ron Paul had NO chance of winning. Helping Mitt Romney win that state.

3) Ron Paul 2012 sent out multiple emails saying all funds would be used to win the nomination, but ended with Rand Paul endorsing Mitt Romney on national TV for a speaking slot at the RNC. BEFORE the RNC had happened. Why? Because Ron Paul 2012 was working with Romney's campaign in states like Louisiana, to make sure the delegate issue, was NOT an issue. Ask the Louisiana Ron Paul supporters who showed up, and DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO! Before they were thrown under the Mitt Romney bus.

4) Ron Paul 2012 ended with more than a million dollars cash-on-hand, and sent an email to at least one supporter who was asking for a refund in September 2012, lying and saying the amount they had on hand was being over-stated by some. Denying that supporter a refund, despite even now still having over $900,000 cash-on-hand, after helping Mitt Romney win the nomination.


Truths:

Ron Paul 2012 never ran one single Mitt Romney only TV attack ad in any state.

Ron Paul 2012 agreed to not attack Mitt Romney, no later than February 2012, and before the Michigan primary.

Ron Paul 2012 continued to ask supporters for more money for all of February, March, April, and into May; not telling supporters they had agreed to not attack Mitt Romney.

Ron Paul 2012 staffer Jesse Benton in May 2012 confirmed to the press that Ron Paul 2012 and Mitt Romney's campaign had already been talking, about things like what planks to put in the Republican platform at the RNC.

Ron Paul 2012's official campaign website was used to defend a lying endorsement of Mitt Romney.

All facts. All truths.

QFT

[eduardo89]

And if Jesse keeps Kokesh away, maybe it's for the best?

I'd hire him just for that reason.

[Rocco]

We were done because the #1 point against Ron Paul was that he couldn't win and when we lost Iowa, the one state where we'd put all our marbles, we were finished.

Once Iowa was lost, and more importantly the narrative at the time was that Iowa was lost to Romney, we realistically had very little chance to win New Hampshire. Once New Hampshire was lost, we had close to zero chance of winning the nomination. Iowa was the whole thing, once we lost it there was never a chance we were gonna bounce back. By Virginia Mitt basically had it locked up.

We were? Why? There was money to spend. Was there not? 50k votes. 50 $#@!ing k votes for 43 delegates. Well, damn, add those delegates to what was traded away in LA annnd.....
Why was NH lost? Because there are some venerated forum members here that were told to just give money and go $#@! themselves, leave it to RP2012,Inc and shut the $#@! up.
No, don't even try to pull this $#@!.

[Rocco]

All of your "facts" make 100% strategic sense when put in the context of the FACT that we were trying to get the other conservatives out of the race so we could cease to split the conservative vote, which EVERYBODY in not just the liberty movement but the broader conservative movement believed was the key to beating Romney. That's why we attacked Santorum in Michigan, that's why we attacked everyone but Romney, that's why we carried out this strategy until Romney won, at which point getting the others out of the race didnt matter. You can disagree, but implying dishonesty is flat out deception.

Stating facts about what Ron Paul 2012 did/didn't do, is not spreading disinfo.
Unlike yourself in spreading outright lies like Jesse Benton influencing and convincing Ron Paul to run for President in 2012, WITH NO PROOF.

You have never explained anything about why I am wrong, because you can't. The truth, is not wrong.

Can you please provide me a link to the Mitt Romney only TV attack ad, like Ron Paul 2012 produced and aired for Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, and Newt Gingrich? No, you can't. It didn't happen.

Facts:
1) Ron Paul 2012 never ran one single Mitt Romney only TV attack ad, like they did against Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and Newt Gingrich.
2) Ron Paul 2012 wasted funds, at least $100K, attacking Rick Santorum in Michigan, a state Ron Paul had NO chance of winning. Helping Mitt Romney win that state.
3) Ron Paul 2012 sent out multiple emails saying all funds would be used to win the nomination, but ended with Rand Paul endorsing Mitt Romney on national TV for a speaking slot at the RNC. BEFORE the RNC had happened. Why? Because Ron Paul 2012 was working with Romney's campaign in states like Louisiana, to make sure the delegate issue, was NOT an issue. Ask the Louisiana Ron Paul supporters who showed up, and DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO! Before they were thrown under the Mitt Romney bus.
4) Ron Paul 2012 ended with more than a million dollars cash-on-hand, and sent an email to at least one supporter who was asking for a refund in September 2012, lying and saying the amount they had on hand was being over-stated by some. Denying that supporter a refund, despite even now still having over $900,000 cash-on-hand, after helping Mitt Romney win the nomination.

I do think they might be keeping the cash-on-hand for a legal defense fund in the Kent Sorenson issue, which in all honesty, if that is the case, is a dishonest and waste of hard working supporters' money. If Ron Paul 2012 had staff doing illegal transactions, the supporters should not pay for that. The fact they are still stitting on that cash, wasting it, is beyond me. Give it back to supporters that ask, so they can donate it to candidates/campaigns that actually want to win, and make a real difference.

I accept reality. You know nothing. Like the Kent Sorenson issue. Like the backroom deal with Romney's campaign. You are exactly the problem. A campaign staffer that "just follows orders", and will take paychecks all day long from supporters' that gave who were actually trying to win, even when you are staring the liars directly in the face you should be exposing.

Jesse Benton, and staffers like yourself that continue to spread lies about how wonderful RP2012 was, should be nowhere near Rand in 2016. If you can't accept and state the reality of the complete, dishonest, misleading, waste that was Ron Paul 2012, you shouldn't be involved in a serious political campaign. Because lying to supporters and wasting their time and money for MONTHS is one of the dumbest ways I have ever heard to "grow a movement". Which, is what some want to claim Ron Paul 2012 was really about.

[samforpaul]

Could someone tell me how much Jesse was compensated for running the Ron and Rand Paul campaigns.

[cajuncocoa]

I'd hire him just for that reason.

I don't understand the issue with Kokesh. You may not like his methods, but that's how change gets done. Adam has done more to advance the cause for liberty than 30 so-called "liberty candidates" combined.

[eduardo89]

I don't understand the issue with Kokesh. You may not like his methods, but that's how change gets done. Adam has done more to advance the cause for liberty than 30 so-called "liberty candidates" combined.

What has Kokesh done apart from look like a fool?

[LibertyEagle]

All of your "facts" make 100% strategic sense when put in the context of the FACT that we were trying to get the other conservatives out of the race so we could cease to split the conservative vote, which EVERYBODY in not just the liberty movement but the broader conservative movement believed was the key to beating Romney. That's why we attacked Santorum in Michigan, that's why we attacked everyone but Romney, that's why we carried out this strategy until Romney won, at which point getting the others out of the race didnt matter. You can disagree, but implying dishonesty is flat out deception.

QFT

[eduardo89]

Could someone tell me how much Jesse was compensated for running the Ron and Rand Paul campaigns.

[JK/SEA]

What has Kokesh done apart from look like a fool?

Adam Kokesh is a Patriot and a Warrior. People who disrespect Adam are fools.

[ClydeCoulter]

Sidesteppers are stepping in. You know it when you see it. Like Farrah Fawcett's hair. It's good $#@!.