What's up with The Libertarian Republic and Ukraine/Crimea rhetoric?

[ClydeCoulter]

The Libertarian Republic is posting articles that seem to suggest that we get involved in the Ukraine and that don't seem to take into account that the US has already been involved.



http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/wh.../#.UyyFdo0o_b0

What’s up with these confused pro-Putin “libertarians”?

When Do Libertarians Support Military Invasions? Apparently When Russia Does It.

A British Expat who lives in Lithuania set up a Facebook page recently to call out libertarians who are taking the side of Russia in the conflict over Crimea. Calling it “Confused Pro-Putin Libertarians,” Mark Splinter is using his platform to educate people on why Putin’s military invasion and sham election are illegitimate and unworthy of defense by people such as Congressman Ron Paul and others.

...

The comment section on that article is worth taking a look at.

Another article is asking for Intervention:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/im...#axzz2wYgTdskK

I’m A Libertarian In Ukraine, U.S.A. Please Help!

Should USA help Ukraine?

Ron Paul, one of the honorary leaders of the American libertarian movement, recently reacted to the crisis in Crimea. Typically, Paul accused US foreign policy in intervention in affairs of a foreign state, but, surprisingly, he made a step further justifying Vladimir Putin. He thinks that the U.S. should not assist Ukraine.

...

[jllundqu]

Let's see...

The US helps a bunch of semi-nazi ultra -nationalists pull off a coup to take down the duly elected president of Ukraine...

The part of Ukraine that has the greatest historical, cultural, and geographical ties to Russia don't want any part of the pro-western pro-EU facade...

Putin steps in and provides troops in Crimea for whatever reason...

Crimea votes to secede and join Russia by a vote close to 95%...

and NONE of this is any of our freaking business...


No one is "Taking the side of Russia" so much as condemning the US government for stoking the fires and getting caught with their pants down. Ron Paul didn't defend Putin. He said it's none of our damn business.

[klamath]

Ron alienated a big chunk of his people with crossing the line from stay out, to putin is right.

[dannno]

What did Putin do wrong? I thought they had legitimate military access to Crimea under some prior agreements?

[ClydeCoulter]

Ron alienated a big chunk of his people with crossing the line from stay out, to putin is right.

Nah, he's just bringing out the best and worst in people. And I think that is a good thing. Ron isn't defending Putin as much as calling out hypocrisy.

[twomp]

Ron Paul just sided with the people of Crimea who decided they would rather have Russian tyrants over EU tyrants. Of course the corporate media has decided to spin this as Ron Paul "supports" Putin in typical media spin style.

[klamath]

Nah, he's just bringing out the best and worst in people. And I think that is a good thing. Ron isn't defending Putin as much as calling out hypocrisy.

Ron is the hypocrite. 30 years of support....

[juleswin]

Is Klamath the ghost writer for this blog?

[fr33]

I must have missed it when Ron supported what Russia is doing.

[klamath]

Is Klamath the ghost writer for this blog?

I am neither expat british or living in a eastern block county. Are you one of the putin bloggers?

[Wadesc]

No one in their right mind supports US intervention in Ukraine.

And in my opinion, no one in their right mind supports what Russia did. Ron gave Putin a pass in favor of Schadenfreude.

Throwing out ones non-interventionist principles to "stick it to the NWO" is shortsighted at best. I will dissent.

[ClydeCoulter]

@Klamath,
Do you think that Russia should have just let the west take over Ukraine and Crimea along with all of their gas lines and ports...and continue to move right up to their doorsteps with rockets red glare?

While I hate that Crimea is stuck in the middle (as well as Ukraine being stuck in the socket), I can see how Crimea might see Russia as the lessor of aggressors and chosen them over the west, since they had worked with Russia being there already.

[klamath]

@Klamath,
Do you think that Russia should have just let the west take over Ukraine and Crimea along with all of their gas lines and ports...and continue to move right up to their doorsteps with rockets red glare?

While I hate that Crimea is stuck in the middle (as well as Ukraine being stuck in the socket), I can see how Crimea might see Russia as the lessor of aggressors and chosen them over the west, since they had worked with Russia being there already.

The question is, it should be what Crimea and Ukraine wants to figure out, not what Russia , china, EU or the US want. Ron has always taken the side that we shouldn't EVEN comment on who is right or wrong now all of a sudden he is being a $#@!ing interventionist EXCEPT on Putin's side. I saw he said this the other day but out of respect for the 30 years I have been following RON I let it pass. Well it seems some libertarians that loved Paul in eastern Europe feel pretty freaking stabbed in the back.

[ItsTime]

I've come close to unliking The Judge's FB page because of all these postings.

[fr33]

I must have missed it when Ron supported what Russia is doing.

Can anybody quote where Ron did this? The article didn't.

Sure I've seen a lot of so called "libertarians" defending Russia and Putin and it's pretty damn ridiculous. Some of them even have ancap avatars. That makes it even worse.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I've come close to unliking The Judge's FB page because of all these postings.

Austin Petersen is the writer/owner of the blog and manager of Judge's FB page. That's why this blog is constantly being linked to by Judge's FB.

[NewRightLibertarian]

Petersen's kissing neocon ass to worm his way through the GOP machine. He's a piece of $#@! of the highest order.

[pcosmar]

Stormfront Libertarians.

[pcosmar]

The question is, it should be what Crimea and Ukraine wants to figure out, .

It is too late for that.. It is way past too late for that.

It was too late for that last year,, because the US and EU ( and the hand that pulls their strings) had already been involved and had their sights on Russia..
The Ukraine is a tool,, a means of attacking Russia.

The Russian Ports and pipelines are the target.

[mosquitobite]

Let's see...

The US helps a bunch of semi-nazi ultra -nationalists pull off a coup to take down the duly elected president of Ukraine...

The part of Ukraine that has the greatest historical, cultural, and geographical ties to Russia don't want any part of the pro-western pro-EU facade...

Putin steps in and provides troops in Crimea for whatever reason...

Crimea votes to secede and join Russia by a vote close to 95%...

and NONE of this is any of our freaking business...


No one is "Taking the side of Russia" so much as condemning the US government for stoking the fires and getting caught with their pants down. Ron Paul didn't defend Putin. He said it's none of our damn business.

The average person cannot seem to grasp this.

They still haven't taken the red pill... and equate the foreign policy of our CIA with our "troops" which they still support.

[Cutlerzzz]

If someone thinks Russia should invade or occupy any part of Ukraine to defend its assets then you might as well support America's wars and interventions to defend its assets.

[thoughtomator]

clickbait: controversy = $

[thoughtomator]

If someone thinks Russia should invade or occupy any part of Ukraine to defend its assets then you might as well support America's wars and interventions to defend its assets.

OK looks like you actually take this seriously, which means it's time for a little bit of education.

First off, Ukraine is a polyglot nation. It's not a distinct "people", there are various types of peoples there. In Crimea most of these people are Russian, and indeed it was part of Russia proper from the late 1700s until "gifted" to Ukraine in 1954. So unless there's a reason why that gift should be considered permanent AND legitimate in the first place, changing that situation in and of itself is no particular crime. Krushchev isn't God so there's no reason why either one should be accepted. Crimea was unjustly handed to Ukraine in the first place - they were not part of that nation as the result of any act of self-determination.

Between Russian and Ukrainian forces in Crimea, the real foreigners are the non-Crimean Ukrainians, who have far less in common with the Crimea than Russians do.

If this was an actual invasion you'd see signs of resistance. Where are they? The people of Crimea seem perfectly fine with the transition, and appear to have voted overwhelmingly to certify it and to declare their independence. Don't they have the right to self-determination? Since when does the rest of Ukraine own the right to rule Crimea?

The current de facto government of the Ukraine didn't come into power through any process consented to by the people of Crimea, so they are not bound by any obligation to respect it. That government came into power with violence and double-dealing - indeed, any person in all of Ukraine would be wise to want independence from it.

So given that until today not a shot was fired this whole time, and that there has been no Russian violence against Crimeans, what exactly is the problem here?

Condemning the Russian intervention requires the following:
- holding sacrosanct an act of a long-dead dictator Krushchev
- accepting the legitimacy of the current regime in Ukraine
- rejecting Crimea's right to self-determination
- showing some actual injury as a result of the intervention, other than to the egos of Western politicians

None of these are solid ground to base any argument on, and the interventionist argument requires ALL of them to have any sort of logical justification.

[Cutlerzzz]

Are you actually trying to educate me with these talking points?

[thoughtomator]

Are you actually trying to educate me with these talking points?

I was, but with a response like that I see that emotions are controlling your decision-making, and there's nothing I can do to help you with that. If you want to get your arms up about a completely unjustified military intervention, just take a look at your own government, which is currently intervening in not just one but a great many countries around the globe. Russia in Crimea has as much justification as a nation can possibly have for such a move, which is why they are as confident as they are in their position.

[Cutlerzzz]

I was, but with a response like that I see that emotions are controlling your decision-making, and there's nothing I can do to help you with that. If you want to get your arms up about a completely unjustified military intervention, just take a look at your own government, which is currently intervening in not just one but a great many countries around the globe. Russia in Crimea has as much justification as a nation can possibly have for such a move, which is why they are as confident as they are in their position.

There were no emotions in my posts and much in yours, even going so far as to implicitly lump me in with "my" government.

You came at me implying that I am unaware of your Wikipedia level history that has been talked about non stop around the world for weeks, implied that I am either unaware of or support US government interventions, and asserted that a government can have a right to invade a foreign state for any reason other than self defense.

[kcchiefs6465]

There were no emotions in my posts and much in yours, even going so far as to implicitly lump me in with "my" government.

You came at me implying that I am unaware of your Wikipedia level history that has been talked about non stop around the world for weeks, implied that I am either unaware of or support US government interventions, and asserted that a government can have a right to invade a foreign state for any reason other than self defense.

-gument on.

[kcchiefs6465]

http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/pro...401&pid=396469

Ron Paul's weekly podcast. This one is titled "New Cold War."

[pcosmar]

If someone thinks Russia should invade or occupy any part of Ukraine to defend its assets then you might as well support America's wars and interventions to defend its assets.

What key military bases did we have in Afghanistan? or Iraq? or Libya? or Vietnam?

Honduras? Nicaragua? Iran? Do I need to go on?

[thoughtomator]

There were no emotions in my posts and much in yours, even going so far as to implicitly lump me in with "my" government.

You came at me implying that I am unaware of your Wikipedia level history that has been talked about non stop around the world for weeks, implied that I am either unaware of or support US government interventions, and asserted that a government can have a right to invade a foreign state for any reason other than self defense.

You certainly appear to have been unaware of these things. Also, your last statement is simply outright false, but I'm sure you knew that.