The face of Putin's imperialism

[Madison320]

I'm as depressed as anybody about the direction the US is heading. But we're still a lot more free than Russia.

[kcchiefs6465]

Funny part is not one person is condoning or defending images of Ukrainian fascism posted, yet I was able to fill up this one little thread with excuses for Putin's imperialism.. . Putin is the leader of a country with twice the area of any other country yet he didn't give the Crimean people the option of a complete independent state, but wanted it sucked into a his other 6 million square miles

That sounds remarkably familiar.

[Zippyjuan]

Come one, they pushed people off their land in order to bring in new people who are not even middle eastern. Also it was the will of the people, they Crimeans wanted to join Russia which no sane person can say about the Palestinians joining Israel.

The Tartars were in Crimea centuries before the Russians drove them out. Now according to Russian news, they want the rest of them to leave as well.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ys/496451.html

Crimean Tatars Asked to Vacate Land, Regional Official Says
RIA Novosti
Mar. 20 2014 00:00
Last edited 09:13


Ukraine's breakaway region of Crimea will ask Tatars to vacate part of the land where they now live in exchange for new territory elsewhere in the region, a top Crimean government official has said.

Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliyev said Tuesday that the new government in Crimea, where residents voted Sunday to become part of Russia, wants to regularize the land unofficially taken over by Crimean Tatar squatters following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

"We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs," Temirgaliyev said. "But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars," he said.

Sound a bit like Palestine? "You must leave your homes. For the good of our society. But we will give you a new place to live!"

[klamath]

The Tartars were in Crimea centuries before the Russians drove them out. Now according to Russian news, they want the rest of them to leave as well.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ys/496451.html

There will only be dead silence to this post or some severe twisting to justify it. They might have a hard time calling it western media bias being that it is from Moscow times.

[silverhandorder]

Squatters are universally hated. You are just as bad as the people you claim like Putin just because he is an opponent to our own tyrants.

[klamath]

Squatters are universally hated. You are just as bad as the people you claim like Putin just because he is an opponent to our own tyrants.

Nice defense of it. "Squatters are universally hated" Despite the fact they are tartars returning from a mass expulsion and occupying unused land. God the Russian apologists are getting bad.

[silverhandorder]

I did not say they are in the wrong. However it is not me who lives in Crimea and I don't lead Russia or America. From the point of view of most people squatters are hated. So if you say this to Putin or someone in Crimea they will just think of you as being disingenuous.

[klamath]

I did not say they are in the wrong. However it is not me who lives in Crimea and I don't lead Russia or America. From the point of view of most people squatters are hated. So if you say this to Putin or someone in Crimea they will just think of you as being disingenuous.

Oh wait a minute...Did you miss all the posts on how peaceful and wonderful the Russian occupation was and that there was no evidence ANYTHING being wrong in Crimea and that all the wrong was in Kiev.....

[silverhandorder]

Oh wait a minute...Did you miss all the posts on how peaceful and wonderful the Russian occupation was and that there was no evidence ANYTHING being wrong in Crimea and that all the wrong was in Kiev.....

No I have not. Maybe I missed it please link those posts.

[klamath]

No I have not. Maybe I missed it please link those posts.

Hell there was even a thread of people gushing of a Russian police woman of all things.

[silverhandorder]

I will admit this. There is a lot of sympathy towards under dog Russians fending off incursions into their political sphere of control. And they are not pretty. Military intervention.

edit: But I still do not see people here making excuses for them. Sympathy yes.

I will also admit that it is suicide for someone like Rand to show those sympathies and that must upset a lot of his supporters that a forum associated with him has a lot of these sympathies. However I will only urge you to give up on political process .

[Zippyjuan]

I believe the reason some support Putin is not because he is so good and caring and a big Libertarian but because in those cases, his side is against what the US says they would like to see happen. "An enemy of my enemy is my friend". Putin is NOT Libertarian. He is not pro- free markets and personal freedoms. His purpose in countries like Syria and Lybia is not to liberate them.

[klamath]

I will admit this. There is a lot of sympathy towards under dog Russians fending off incursions into their political sphere of control. And they are not pretty. Military intervention.

I will also admit that it is suicide for someone like Rand to show those sympathies and that must upset a lot of his supporters that a forum associated with him has a lot of these sympathies. However I will only urge you to give up on political process .

what I though. How is Syria in Russia's sphere of influence? By they way I find the phrase to be the catchword for justifying all other foreign intervention.

[Zippyjuan]

Syria is Russia's main access to the Mediteranian Sea for their Navy. Crimea is their Black Sea access.

[klamath]

I believe the reason some support Putin is not because he is so good and caring and a big Libertarian but because in those cases, his side is against what the US says they would like to see happen. "An enemy of my enemy is my friend". Putin is NOT Libertarian. He is not pro- free markets and personal freedoms.

I think you nailed it. However that reaction horrible weakens the non interventionist ideology. It makes them a joke.

[klamath]

Syria is Russia's main access to the Mediteranian Sea for their Navy. Crimea is their Black Sea access.

That is also true. Putin will do what it takes to ensure his navy has access to the world in a warm water port. but it is not in his sphere of influence as native traditional Russian land.

[silverhandorder]

I think you nailed it. However that reaction horrible weakens the non interventionist ideology. It makes them a joke.

I think to be for non intervention and play politics is simply not a fully matured philosophy. Because you simply can not denounce both sides and win in politics. For that matter you can't win at all in politics but denouncing your own side when it is gearing up for war is a sure way of getting marginalized.

You know the main theme of every movie that you can not shed your humanity in the process of fighting for justice. Well falling in line is exactly that.

[pcosmar]

I think you nailed it. However that reaction horrible weakens the non interventionist ideology. It makes them a joke.

No it does not

My non interventionist ideology relates to the United States..only.

This country needs to stay out of $#@! in the world.
The very fact that we haven't is the whole reason that Russia has annexed Crimea. To protect their interests.

My non Intervention ideology say I have no right to tell another country what they should do. And also top not support and encourage their enemies.

But my Non Intervention ideology is a fantasy because the USGOV is Neck Deep in starting $#@! everywhere.

[jkob]

Before Crimea belonged to Russia, the entire economy of the Crimean Khanate was based on raiding neighboring regions in which they sold millions and millions of Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, etc into slavery in the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. I believe during WWII, they were collaborators with the Nazis as well. This doesn't mean what Stalin did was right by any means but it puts a different perspective on their persecution.

[klamath]

No it does not

My non interventionist ideology relates to the United States..only.

This country needs to stay out of $#@! in the world.
The very fact that we haven't is the whole reason that Russia has annexed Crimea. To protect their interests.

My non Intervention ideology say I have no right to tell another country what they should do. And also top not support and encourage their enemies.

But my Non Intervention ideology is a fantasy because the USGOV is Neck Deep in starting $#@! everywhere.

got one part of the sentence right.

[klamath]

Before Crimea belonged to Russia, the entire economy of the Crimean Khanate was based on raiding neighboring regions in which they sold millions and millions of Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, etc into slavery in the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. I believe during WWII, they were collaborators with the Nazis as well. This doesn't mean what Stalin did was right by any means but it puts a different perspective on their persecution.

Ok now people are wanting to go down the historical excuse route. Before it was WE must isolate JUST what is happening in the Crimea now and see that it is true and just...... Point out what is going on now as not so true and just and all of a sudden let us selectively go back through a thousand years of history and pick and chose bits of history to justify it. People did not want any mention of Putin's history in Chechnya brought into the debate because we wanted to isolate just the current action in Crimea. Well this is the current action in Crimea.

[idiom]

Any time the US get the lid of the cookie jar smacked down on its thieving hands is a good thing. Doesn't matter if its Putin, or an Ayatollah.

I don't think Americans have *any* comprehension of how negatively they are perceived by the rest of the world.

[tod evans]

I don't think Americans have *any* comprehension of how negatively they are perceived by the rest of the world.

I can only pray that "The World" understands it is the politicians and not the people who behave wrongly....

[klamath]

Well sorry to break it too you folks but unless you renounce your US citizenship and leave the country you will bear the cross for all of Americas sins. You will be just one more dirty rotten American.

[tod evans]

Well sorry to break it too you folks but unless you renounce your US citizenship and leave the country you will bear the cross for all of Americas sins. You will be just one more dirty rotten American.

You...........Will not saddle me with your inequities!

[Danke]

Any time the US get the lid of the cookie jar smacked down on its thieving hands is a good thing. Doesn't matter if its Putin, or an Ayatollah.

I don't think Americans have *any* comprehension of how negatively they are perceived by the rest of the world.

Well, Kiwis are collectivist, so I can see how they might have those perceptions.

[juleswin]

The Tartars were in Crimea centuries before the Russians drove them out. Now according to Russian news, they want the rest of them to leave as well.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ys/496451.html



Sound a bit like Palestine? "You must leave your homes. For the good of our society. But we will give you a new place to live!"

Come on, its not like there is an area is populated by just tartars, it most likely was an eminent domain type deal where people have to move. See another thing is that its not like the Tartars had a state of their own, they were living under the Ukrainian government where their votes counted just as much as they did the night of the referendum.

So enough with you and Klamath comparing them to Palestinians. Lastly, the moscowtimes is a western propaganda news outlet, whatever they say especially about Russia should be taken with a grain of salt

[AngryCanadian]

I'm as depressed as anybody about the direction the US is heading. But we're still a lot more free than Russia.

But we're still a lot more free than Russia

With taxes and earnings up to 1,000 for a living, yup thats freedom.

[AngryCanadian]

I believe the reason some support Putin is not because he is so good and caring and a big Libertarian but because in those cases, his side is against what the US says they would like to see happen. "An enemy of my enemy is my friend". Putin is NOT Libertarian. He is not pro- free markets and personal freedoms. His purpose in countries like Syria and Lybia is not to liberate them.

His purpose in countries like Syria and Lybia is not to liberate them.

I am quite sure your beloved Rebels purpose like Syria and Libya were in to liberate them. Say again? how is Libya doing again? oh thats right chaotic is the word here.

[PierzStyx]

Ah but you missed the part where members of parliament said they weren't even there yet were listed as having voted.....
Oh and are you talking about those Ukrainian soldiers that are leaving without firing a shot brutalizing the crimea population?

Sources or OP is bogus. That is the rule of the internet. You can just make everything up you want. Not saying you are, but reveal your sources so their validity can be evaluated.