http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pd...alem_bruce.pdf
Provided a link here, but I'm more interested in learning more about the link between the Eastern Orthodox Church and The New Testament Church started in Jerusalem.
This is a really broad topic...but in a nutshell-the EOC is the Jerusalem Church in Diaspora. I've started a tread recently about an "Intro to Orthodoxy" video series of lectures by Fr. Courey, based on the writings of Bishop Kallistos Ware. It covers this topic and a number of others. You'll enjoy it.Originally Posted by Terry1
Reading that reminded me of something I have wondered for some time. He mentioned how they would baptize in the name of Jesus. I have to wonder when that practice was discontinued and instead people were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
btw, terry-if you want to know more than I have time to cover, your local Orthodox priest will meet with you and help you free of charge. Most likely the parish will offer classes that cover all things orthodox. They are free to all, no matter what your religion or lack thereof. (and no tests!)
The link is direct between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the New Testament Church in Jerusalem. The current Patriarch Theophilus III can trace himself via apostolic succession directly to St. James the Just in the 1st century AD.
I did a powerpoint for my church on the Holy Fire which comes down every Holy Saturday in the Holy Sepulcher and included some of the history. I will repost some of it below but unfortunately without the pictures (which actually is the best part of the presentation)
Severe persecution in the first 100 years of the Church. Communities scattered and became refugees.
The Decapolis (“Ten Cities”) were a large province near Galilee which where Hellenistic.
In one of the these cities, the city of Pella, the Church of Jerusalem found refuge and it became the new seat for the Church. (that is, the one and only Bishop of Jerusalem, in exile with the Christians who fled the city, chose this city to settle in to protect the flock)
Here it began to purge itself from certain Judean elements which ran counter to the teachings and gospel of Christ.
AD 135, the Roman emperor Aleius Hadrain sent his general Severus to Jerusalem to squelch the second great revolt of the Jews against the Romans.
Jerusalem was decimated, and a new city was formed nearby named Aelia Capitolina.
The Tomb of Christ was filled with earth and a temple of Aphrodite was built on top of it.
Quadratus and Aristides were brilliant Roman philosophers (considered the Einsteins of their day) who became Christian apologists (and eventual Bishops) and convinced the Roman Emperor Hadrius to protect the Christians on account of the virtuous lives they lived and the unfair persecutions they were undergoing. The Emperor passed a decree which forbade Christians to be put to death unless accused in due form and convicted of offense against the laws and also punished the accusers if their charges were found to be false. This offered protection to the Christians. (see link)
With the rebirth of the holy city and a reprieve in the heavy persecution, the Church which had fled Jerusalem had now returned, now more Hellenized in character but retaining the same apostolic doctrines and faith and eucharistic sacramental communion with all the other churches across all of Christendom.
The election of the next Bishop in line in the seat of St. James the Just was Bishop Marcus in the year 135 who was of Greek descent (Jewish born were not allowed to enter the city of Aelia Capitolina/Jerusalem by Roman Emperor decree).
From then on, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem has never left and is the guardian of the most holy Christian site in the world, namely the Church of the Resurrection which houses the Holy Sepulcher (the tomb where Christ resurrected)
The Patriarchate of Jerusalem was granted autocephaly in 451 by the Council of Chalcedon and in 531 became one of the initial five patriarchates (The Pentarchy of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church).
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the same Church of Jerusalem we read about in the New Testament, historically, spiritually ,sacramentally, and doctrinally. It is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which has carried the faith of the apostles.
I read this on the internet and it is a nice short way to sum it up: The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn't non-denominational - it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago.
Last edited by TER; 03-14-2014 at 08:44 PM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Great question! According to the Didache (or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) which most scholars date anywhere from the later first century to the beginning of the second century, though some say even as early as 50 AD), it states with regards to the instruction of baptism to be conferred "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," so the trinitarian baptism is apostolic.
Last edited by TER; 03-14-2014 at 08:25 PM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Thank you. I wonder why they changed it from the way they originally were doing it as stated in Acts 2:38.
I think a case can be made that the quote by St. Peter in Acts 2:38 is not the actual baptismal expression but rather his exhortation to the masses to be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, remembering that one who is baptized in the Name of the Holy Trinity is indeed baptized in the Name of Jesus by virtue of Christ being One of the Trinity. Presumably however, when the people actually were sacramentally baptized, it was done in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Trinity, and the Didache confirms that this was the practice of the early Church.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
This is an interesting video about a Jewish convert to a Messianic Jew (one of the founding members of 'Jews for Jesus') and later to Orthodox Christianity. He speaks about the Church of the New Testament and it's Jewish roots. He also touches about how he came to understand that the Orthodox Church is indeed the continuation of the Church in Jerusalem started with St. James as it's first Bishop. He described his talk as 'finding the original Church'.
The Brooklyn accent is pretty thick! lol
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Thank you. I did a study on that some years back and noticed many times how they said they baptized in the name of the Lord or Jesus but never any other way was mentioned in the scriptures.
Examples are found in the following verses:
Acts 8:16
Acts 10:48
Acts 19:5
I find it interesting to note how it changed. Again, thank you, I appreciate your help.
Thanks for all of that great info. I had a really hard time last night trying to search on my own. I'm in the dark about so much regarding the EOC, but lately it seems that I've been wanting to know a lot more and to get more involved in that teaching. It'll probably take me some time to absorb everything, but I am a fairly quick study.btw, terry-if you want to know more than I have time to cover, your local Orthodox priest will meet with you and help you free of charge. Most likely the parish will offer classes that cover all things orthodox. They are free to all, no matter what your religion or lack thereof. (and no tests!
Good morning Terry! This book by Bishop Kallistos is an excellent primer into the history of the Orthodox Church. This one is a great introduction into the doctrine/theology of the Orthodox Church. If you wish, I am happy to send you a copy of each!
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
I haven't read those books. I'll have to check them out, but my local EO priest gave me this book. http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Or...faith+and+life
It's an easy read. I breezed through it pretty quickly. I re-read it again, because there were some pretty deep messages in the straightforward print.
This is pretty much what I was looking for, at least a big part of it. I was looking for that concrete link, (if any existed) that linked the EOC to the first church of Jerusalem. I spent hours reading a lot of commentary that just didn't seem to answer my questions.The link is direct between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the New Testament Church in Jerusalem. The current Patriarch Theophilus III can trace himself via apostolic succession directly to St. James the Just in the 1st century AD.
I did a powerpoint for my church on the Holy Fire which comes down every Holy Saturday in the Holy Sepulcher and included some of the history. I will repost some of it below but unfortunately without the pictures (which actually is the best part of the presentation
Severe persecution in the first 100 years of the Church. Communities scattered and became refugees.
The Decapolis (“Ten Cities”) were a large province near Galilee which where Hellenistic.
In one of the these cities, the city of Pella, the Church of Jerusalem found refuge and it became the new seat for the Church. (that is, the one and only Bishop of Jerusalem, in exile with the Christians who fled the city, chose this city to settle in to protect the flock)
Here it began to purge itself from certain Judean elements which ran counter to the teachings and gospel of Christ.
AD 135, the Roman emperor Aleius Hadrain sent his general Severus to Jerusalem to squelch the second great revolt of the Jews against the Romans.
Jerusalem was decimated, and a new city was formed nearby named Aelia Capitolina.
The Tomb of Christ was filled with earth and a temple of Aphrodite was built on top of it.
Quadratus and Aristides were brilliant Roman philosophers (considered the Einsteins of their day) who became Christian apologists (and eventual Bishops) and convinced the Roman Emperor Hadrius to protect the Christians on account of the virtuous lives they lived and the unfair persecutions they were undergoing. The Emperor passed a decree which forbade Christians to be put to death unless accused in due form and convicted of offense against the laws and also punished the accusers if their charges were found to be false. This offered protection to the Christians. (see link)
With the rebirth of the holy city and a reprieve in the heavy persecution, the Church which had fled Jerusalem had now returned, now more Hellenized in character but retaining the same apostolic doctrines and faith and eucharistic sacramental communion with all the other churches across all of Christendom.
The election of the next Bishop in line in the seat of St. James the Just was Bishop Marcus in the year 135 who was of Greek descent (Jewish born were not allowed to enter the city of Aelia Capitolina/Jerusalem by Roman Emperor decree).
From then on, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem has never left and is the guardian of the most holy Christian site in the world, namely the Church of the Resurrection which houses the Holy Sepulcher (the tomb where Christ resurrected)
The Patriarchate of Jerusalem was granted autocephaly in 451 by the Council of Chalcedon and in 531 became one of the initial five patriarchates (The Pentarchy of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church).
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the same Church of Jerusalem we read about in the New Testament, historically, spiritually ,sacramentally, and doctrinally. It is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which has carried the faith of the apostles.
I read this on the internet and it is a nice short way to sum it up: The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn't non-denominational - it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago.
So I guess I'm on the right track here then. Because something made me ask myself yesterday that question about the very first New Testament Church of Jerusalem. I'm looking for that divine link I guess. A lot of questions have been arising here lately making me question some of the things I used to believe were more expedient that now seem to pale in light of a greater truth that I've been missing.
I believe that I'm being shown something here that the Lord may indeed be leading me to search out and understand in more depth. Because the strangest thing happened yesterday when the thought just dropped into my mind and said, "search for the first church of Jerusalem".
My Greek Orthodox Church where I live gives this statement, they are evangelical, but not Protestant, they are Orthodox, but not Jewish, they are Catholic, but not Roman, the Church isn’t non-denominational – it is pre-denominational, existing 1,500 years before any denominations.
It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago. We are the Church in the Bible and the Church that established the New Testament as Scripture.
This is pretty much who I am and what I believe now anyway. My Mother was the one who broke the family link to the EOC many years ago--now I want to know what I was missing.
Last edited by Terry1; 03-15-2014 at 08:20 AM.
I'm am almost convinced that Revelation 12: is talking about EOC---everything seems to reconcile between this church and scripture.
17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[b]
Now that link seems to becoming more clear too. This has been constantly on my mind lately.
Thanks TER, I'll order this today and I appreciate the help and resources. I already fired off a PM to you. Thanks again.
Dont order it! It is my gift! I already ordered it!! I am at work right now and things are picking up so I haven't answered the PM yet... talk to you soon...Thanks TER, I'll order this today and I appreciate the help and resources. I already fired off a PM to you. Thanks again.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
God bless you TER, you didn't need to do that, but I'm ever so grateful and thankful for it. Yes, I have to leave today and run some errands too, but I'll be back later to discuss this further. Thanks again!
..
Last edited by Terry1; 03-15-2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason: double post
All believers in Jesus everywhere are.
Some of you may think this is a very large leap for me at this point, but as I said--I tend to be a quick study.
I'm listening to a video now by Sister Vassa---and loving it.
Sort of, but we're talking specifically about the Jerusalem Church. Neither protestants nor Roman Catholics can claim to be literally members (or "descendents" if you prefer that sort of terminology) of the Diaspora as the EOC can.
That's not true. All true believers in Jesus have equal claim to being members of that church.
I learned the Gospel from my parents. They learned it from others before them, who learned it from others before them. And this tradition goes back to where it started with the apostles of that Jerusalem church. This is true of all Christians in the world.
This is the beautiful home of my Grandparents and their parents before them all Tinians on the Island of Tinos. There is so much Biblical history there with regard to the Church. I'm hoping to go back and visit soon and meet the part of my family I never knew that still live there. First I need some lessons in Greek---My Mother and Grandparents spoke the language, but never taught us.
This is the Zorba dance---which I love. We do this every year at our Greek festival, which is so much fun. Now I'll stop hijacking my own thread here. LOL
Last edited by Terry1; 03-15-2014 at 02:26 PM.
Terry, what constitutes the unity of the Church is communion. It has always been this way since the Day of Pentecost. A unity of communion which transcends history and time. It is a communion of the past, the present, and the future. Historical and eschatological.
For example, Apostolic continuity is both two things as can be traced in the New Testament. The first is as persons who have been sent on a mission to transmit the faith and the message of Christ by establishing Church and ministers. This being done in a linear and historical movement of succession, sealed by the Holy Spirit in the grace of ordination. This is the historical aspect of apostolic succession, of which the Orthodox Church can claim.
But the other aspect which is just as important is the eschatological dimension as found in the Book of Revelation. For this sees the apostles not so much as individuals who are sent, but rather as a college whose members are drawn together from the ends of the earth. Here the apostles are not those who come after Christ but who surround Him. And they do not stand as a link between Christ and the Church in a historical process but are the foundations of the Church in a presence of the Kingdom of God here and now.
This is because the liturgy of the faithful around the Eucharist is itself both a historical and an eschatological event. For we stand on the earth and worship God, but in the company of angels and a great and holy cloud of witnesses. Partaking no longer the Bread and Wine but the very Body and Blood of the Risen and Ascended Christ. It is a worship not only here now, but outside of time and the world and in the future glory of the Kingdom, that is why the the priest prays just before the epiclesis: "Remembering, therefore, this command of the Savior, and all that came to pass for our sake, the cross, the tomb, the resurrection on the third day, the ascension into heaven, the enthronement at the right hand of the Father, and the second, glorious coming." The worship is a cosmic liturgy and fulfilled once but many times and in communion with all. Thus the scenes in the Book of Revelation, though yet to come in our history, is in all of history for the very meaning of history finds its ontology in Christ's glorious and second coming, and every time the faithful congregate around the altar and partake of the Body and Blood of the Risen Christ, it is concelebrating with the faithful everywhere, in every age, and even in the culmination of ages before the Throne of God.
What gives meaning and even existence to this 'communion of being' (namely, the Church and Bride of Christ) as 'many in one' in the image of the Trinity is centered and anchored in the Holy Eucharist. That is why the aim of every council and every synod has always been unity in eucharistic communion, all the way back to the days of the Apostles. And the Church's intention, in producing or adopting creeds, was not to provide material for theological reflection, but to orientate correctly the eucharistic community. In this manner, it has always been the Body and Blood of Christ which has established, defined, maintained, and kept pure and holy the Church and protected it these past 2000 years, so that while the world continues to fall away further from the truth, the truth and the faith might still endure. And it will endure. For this we praise and bless and glorify the all honorable and magnificent name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
Last edited by TER; 03-15-2014 at 08:17 PM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Terry, you might find this article interesting : "Worship in the Book of Revelation and the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy"
The very description of the worship in the Book of Revelation is the worship done every Lord's Day in the Orthodox Church.
Last edited by TER; 03-16-2014 at 07:07 AM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Literally. The sentence that you didn't bold is indisputably true.
The concept of didactic and oral tradition in linear fashion does not equate to eucharistic communion in one body, one faith, and one spirit with the one Church established by the Apostles. The game of telephone is a good example of why not, and so is the history of the Protestant faith.
Arian, Nestorius, and all the other great heretics too could point to teachers before them and to the Scriptures themselves to prove their position and justify their beliefs, but they proved themselves to be outside of the one body by their divergent and different faith, and for this they were excommunicated of the Holy Eucharist by the Church for having first excommunicating themselves by their different and heretical faiths.
Last edited by TER; 03-15-2014 at 08:45 PM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
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