Have we been perfected and do we have eternal security in this life?

[Terry1]

No, we have not been perfected yet. Eternal security is a future event based upon how we live our lives today and every day until the end of our lives. We can rest in the assurance of our salvation as long as we continually abide in Christ to the very end of our lives.

Yes--God is patient as we stumble--as we grow in Faith. The whole point of the test of faith in this life is *never giving up*. We can stumble from the point of belief to the very end of our lives, while getting up and beginning again every day in the knowledge that we've been forgiven through our repentance of those thing that cause us to stumble. At some point, we are called to be "overcomers" through our faith. Overcoming that part of our lives that's causing us to stumble in faith. This is how we grow in faith. This is why Jesus said that "only the overcomers will He confess before the Father in Heaven. Revelation 3:5

Are we perfected yet---no, but we are perfect as long as we abide in Christ because we're still living in a state of human flesh and blood that wars with the Spirit and causes us to be tempted while in the state of human flesh. We will always be susceptible to sin as long as we live in these bodies of flesh and bone. This is why we are *CALLED* to continually abide in the Spirit of Christ the Lord. As long as we do this, sin is held at bay and we are covered by the blood of the Lord.

We are perfected once our physical bodies die and are resurrected to eternal life in Christ. Jesus wasn't even perfected until the third day of His resurrection and neither can anyone be until they die the first death and resurrected to eternal life in the next life.

Until we die the first death and are perfected---no one has "eternal security", but we are given the promise and the hope that as long as we abide in Christ we will obtain the promise of eternal life.

This is what Paul is saying here:

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

And here:

2 Timothy 4:
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Nowhere in the NT does Paul give absolute assurance of his salvation until hours before his death. This is because he knew at this point--he was ready, he'd fought the good fight---he'd kept the faith--FINALLY he says---he knows he has his crown of righteousness.

[Brett85]

I see what you're saying, and it does seem like the Bible doesn't really teach the doctrine of absolute eternal security. But, it doesn't really seem very fun and pleasant to go through life basically walking on eggshells, worrying about losing your salvation every time you sin. It almost seems like it would be better to be an animal, to just do whatever you want in this life and just live life, not having to worry about experiencing pain in the next life, or missing out on certain rewards. That might be kind of a strange thought, but that's just what came to mind. At least animals don't have to worry about anything.

[Terry1]

I see what you're saying, and it does seem like the Bible doesn't really teach the doctrine of absolute eternal security. But, it doesn't really seem very fun and pleasant to go through life basically walking on eggshells, worrying about losing your salvation every time you sin. It almost seems like it would be better to be an animal, to just do whatever you want in this life and just live life, not having to worry about experiencing pain in the next life, or missing out on certain rewards. That might be kind of a strange thought, but that's just what came to mind. At least animals don't have to worry about anything.

Any good parent teaches their children through fear and love both what they should and shouldn't be doing. God is patient with His children, He knows our hearts. Some may go astray for a while and then return. It's only those who don't return and there are some that do this as we've seen people in this very forum claim that they've been a part of the church, came into the knowledge and then went their own ways. Some will return and some won't. Only God knows who they are.

This is why Paul tells us along with the other Apostles to walk in the fear of the Lord and the comfort of the Holy Spirit---fearing only what God can do and no other. We're instructed in this way because God loves His children and wants them to understand that there are consequences for our behavior and the way we live in this life---not much different than a good parent who loves their own children. As long as we try to live and abide in Christ--our efforts to do so are seen by God, He knows our weaknesses and our strengths and tells us we will never be tempted beyond what we're able to bear or handle.


Acts 9:31
31 Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

[Nang]

We are perfected once our physical bodies die and are resurrected to eternal life in Christ. Jesus wasn't even perfected until the third day of His resurrection and neither can anyone be until they die the first death and resurrected to eternal life in the next life.

Whoa!

Jesus Christ never experienced a process of perfectionism, for He was always without sin.

There are several reasons why Jesus resurrected after the third day in the tomb, but this is not one of them.

This is a serious Christological error that must be corrected, for your sake and others.

[Nang]

I see what you're saying, and it does seem like the Bible doesn't really teach the doctrine of absolute eternal security. But, it doesn't really seem very fun and pleasant to go through life basically walking on eggshells, worrying about losing your salvation every time you sin. It almost seems like it would be better to be an animal, to just do whatever you want in this life and just live life, not having to worry about experiencing pain in the next life, or missing out on certain rewards. That might be kind of a strange thought, but that's just what came to mind. At least animals don't have to worry about anything.

Jesus Christ is the Surety for our redemption and inheritance of everlasting life. Christians persevere through life without worry of losing their standing in grace with God, because it is God Himself who preserves them.

The Father has eternally decreed our inheritance; the Son has made us fit to inherit ; and the Holy Spirit guarantees us our inheritance.

All of the promises from God of everlasting life for those who have faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, are established and kept because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ . . . not ours.

[Sola_Fide]

Whoa!

Jesus Christ never experienced a process of perfectionism, for He was always without sin.

There are several reasons why Jesus resurrected after the third day in the tomb, but this is not one of them.

This is a serious Christological error that must be corrected, for your sake and others.

Exactly. When Jesus speaks of being "perfected", it is in the sense of accomplishing His mission, or ending His mission.

Terry1 googles words in the Bible, strings them together, and act like she knows what she's talking about.

[Sola_Fide]

Jesus Christ is the Surety for our redemption and inheritance of everlasting life. Christians persevere through life without worry of losing their standing in grace with God, because it is God Himself who preserves them.

The Father has eternally decreed our inheritance; the Son has made us fit to inherit ; and the Holy Spirit guarantees us our inheritance.

All of the promises from God of everlasting life for those who have faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, are established and kept because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ . . . not ours.

Absolutely. And the righteousness of Christ alone is the only assurance possible.

[Terry1]

Whoa!

Jesus Christ never experienced a process of perfectionism, for He was always without sin.

There are several reasons why Jesus resurrected after the third day in the tomb, but this is not one of them.

This is a serious Christological error that must be corrected, for your sake and others.

And you are WRONG. Jesus Himself being in a tent of human flesh and bone could not be perfected until after His death and resurrection. The flesh can not possibly be perfected in this life. We are perfect through the blood of Christ while in a tent of human flesh---but we are not "perfected" until after the death of this life.

Luke 13:32

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

[Brett85]

Jesus Christ is the Surety for our redemption and inheritance of everlasting life. Christians persevere through life without worry of losing their standing in grace with God, because it is God Himself who preserves them.

The Father has eternally decreed our inheritance; the Son has made us fit to inherit ; and the Holy Spirit guarantees us our inheritance.

All of the promises from God of everlasting life for those who have faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, are established and kept because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ . . . not ours.

It seems like Paul was concerned that he could lose his salvation, even though he had converted so many people to Christ.

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain in it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 RSV)

[Sola_Fide]

And you are WRONG. Jesus Himself being in a tent of human flesh and bone could not be perfected until after His death and resurrection. The flesh can not possibly be perfected in this life. We are perfect through the blood of Christ while in a tent of human flesh---but we are not "perfected" until after the death of this life.

Luke 13:32

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

You are an idiot who flies off at the mouth and does damage to the Word of God.

If you in ANY way propose that Jesus was not perfectly sinless from birth, then you might as well not even pretend to be a Christian anymore.

I said (which you don't understand) is that "perfected" in the sense that Jesus was talking about there is the completion of His mission on earth. It has nothing to do with his nature.

[Nang]

It seems like Paul was concerned that he could lose his salvation, even though he had converted so many people to Christ.

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain in it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 RSV)

Paul also penned Ephesians 1:11-14; II Corinthians 1:21, 5:5 . . .

What Paul speaks of in I Corinthians 9:24-27, is his witness that validates his preaching; it has nothing to do with his salvation.

To paraphrase: "A Christian should practice what they preach."

[Terry1]

Absolutely. And the righteousness of Christ alone is the only assurance possible.

You are hanging onto belief by a thread and a thumbnail grip and will never understand where you are wrong until you let go of these preconceived teachings of false teachers. I will never go as far to say that you are not eligible for salvation, but your belief is placing you and those like you in the danger zone because by your belief, no one needs to constantly repent of sin as Gods word instructs us. You are living a very dangerous belief that could very well take you down a path you don't want to travel if you don't wake up.

[Terry1]

Paul also penned Ephesians 1:11-14; II Corinthians 1:21, 5:5 . . .

What Paul speaks of in I Corinthians 9:24-27, is his witness that validates his preaching; it has nothing to do with his salvation.

To paraphrase: "A Christian should practice what they preach."

Did you NOT SEE the scripture I just posted that proved you wrong? Why aren't you acknowledging Luke 13:32? You are blinded and as blind as Sola.

[Sola_Fide]

And you are WRONG. Jesus Himself being in a tent of human flesh and bone could not be perfected until after His death and resurrection. The flesh can not possibly be perfected in this life. We are perfect through the blood of Christ while in a tent of human flesh---but we are not "perfected" until after the death of this life.

Wrong.

Christians are perfected (past tense) by the sacrifice of Christ:

Hebrews 10:12-14

But when this priest [Jesus] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

[Terry1]

You are an idiot who flies off at the mouth and does damage to the Word of God.

If you in ANY way propose that Jesus was not perfectly sinless from birth, then you might as well not even pretend to be a Christian anymore.

I said (which you don't understand) is that "perfected" in the sense that Jesus was talking about there is the completion of His mission on earth. It has nothing to do with his nature.

Ah---personal attacks coming from you now Sola---I see you have an empty quiver as usual.

[Sola_Fide]

Did you NOT SEE the scripture I just posted that proved you wrong? Why aren't you acknowledging Luke 13:32? You are blinded and as blind as Sola.

No Terry, you did not see the verse, because you attach an unbiblical meaning to the words of Jesus. "Perfected" there did not mean anything about Jesus' nature...it referred to His mission on earth.

[Terry1]

Wrong.

Christians are perfected (past tense) by the sacrifice of Christ:

We are perfect as long as we abide in Christ while in the state of flesh and bone. If Jesus couldn't be perfected until the day of His resurrection, what causes you to believe it's possible for you? The flesh can not be *perfected* in this life. We can only be *perfect* spiritually as long as we abide in Christ.

[Sola_Fide]

And you are WRONG. Jesus Himself being in a tent of human flesh and bone could not be perfected until after His death and resurrection. The flesh can not possibly be perfected in this life. We are perfect through the blood of Christ while in a tent of human flesh---but we are not "perfected" until after the death of this life.

Wrong.

Christians are perfected (past tense) by the sacrifice of Christ:

Hebrews 10:12-14

But when this priest [Jesus] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

[Brett85]

Paul also penned Ephesians 1:11-14; II Corinthians 1:21, 5:5 . . .

What Paul speaks of in I Corinthians 9:24-27, is his witness that validates his preaching; it has nothing to do with his salvation.

To paraphrase: "A Christian should practice what they preach."

How can it have nothing to do with his salvation when he talks about being "disqualified from the race" where the winners will receive a crown that will last forever?

[Terry1]

No Terry, you did not see the verse, because you attach an unbiblical meaning to the words of Jesus. "Perfected" there did not mean anything about Jesus' nature...it referred to His mission on earth.

You are sorely confused and wrong along with being blinded by your own pride to let go of what you think you know. You are wrong Sola---and your little friend too.

[Sola_Fide]

We are perfect as long as we abide in Christ while in the state of flesh and bone. If Jesus couldn't be perfected until the day of His resurrection, what causes you to believe it's possible for you? The flesh can not be *perfected* in this life. We can only be *perfect* spiritually as long as we abide in Christ.

What do you not understand about this verse?

Hebrews 10:14

For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

For by one sacrifice (past tense) He has made PERFECT FOREVER those who are being made holy.

You do not believe what we believe. You are not a Christian.

[Nang]

And you are WRONG. Jesus Himself being in a tent of human flesh and bone could not be perfected until after His death and resurrection. The flesh can not possibly be perfected in this life. We are perfect through the blood of Christ while in a tent of human flesh---but we are not "perfected" until after the death of this life.

Luke 13:32

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

The Greek word used in this verse is "teleioo" which has been translated to describe Christ's finished achievements. This speaks of Christ's works performed as Mediator, which only the sinless God/Man Jesus could accomplish. I Timothy 2:5

For the sake of others, be careful of what you post. Your error here is heretical (Arianism) and could lead others astray and cause them anguish of soul.

[Sola_Fide]

The Greek word used in this verse is "teleioo" which has been translated to describe Christ's finished achievements. This speaks of Christ's works performed as Mediator, which only the sinless God/Man Jesus could accomplish. I Timothy 2:5

For the sake of others, be careful of what you post. Your error here is heretical (Arianism) and could lead others astray and cause them anguish of soul.

Thank you for your Biblical response, Nang. Sadly, I cannot give you any more rep.

[Brett85]

You do not believe what we believe. You are not a Christian.

You're absolutely an arrogant, egotistical, selfish jerk who has absolutely no respect at all for other people.

[erowe1]

I see what you're saying, and it does seem like the Bible doesn't really teach the doctrine of absolute eternal security.

How can you read this and think that there is any room left for someone who was predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus, and subsequently justified, not to end up glorified?

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

[Brett85]

How can you read this and think that there is any room left for someone who was predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus, and subsequently justified, not to end up glorified?

I'm not sure how to interpret that, but it just seems to me that for every verse that appears to teach eternal security, there are 10 verses which teach that you can fall away from God and lose your salvation. There are also countless examples of people who were Christians and went to church their entire lives, and then turned away from the faith and became unbelievers.

[Nang]

You're absolutely an arrogant, egotistical, selfish jerk who has absolutely no respect at all for other people.

Persons who trample over the Word of God and teach heresy, do not deserve respect.

Terry is inferring Jesus was a sinner; thereby denying His Deity, which is anti-christian, and I for one will not encourage any anti-christ.

[Terry1]

The Greek word used in this verse is "teleioo" which has been translated to describe Christ's finished achievements. This speaks of Christ's works performed as Mediator, which only the sinless God/Man Jesus could accomplish. I Timothy 2:5

For the sake of others, be careful of what you post. Your error here is heretical (Arianism) and could lead others astray and cause them anguish of soul.

No it's not---it's speaking of Christ's transformation from the flesh to the Spirit as in "totally perfected". No one is totally perfected in this life while in a state of human flesh. We can only be perfect as long as we abide in Christ and the Holy Spirit.

God can not and does not honor flesh and blood, nor can the flesh inherit the kingdom of heaven. The only way anyone can inherit the kingdom of heaven is through the transformation of the first death into the Spirit. All scripture supports this.

[Terry1]

Persons who trample over the Word of God and teach heresy, do not deserve respect.

Terry is inferring Jesus was a sinner; thereby denying His Deity, which is anti-christian, and I for one will not encourage any anti-christ.

The sword cuts both ways--it's not I, but you who are doing what you have accused me of.

[Nang]

No it's not---it's speaking of Christ's transformation from the flesh to the Spirit as in "totally perfected". No one is totally perfected in this life while in a state of human flesh. We can only be perfect as long as we abide in Christ and the Holy Spirit.

God can not and does not honor flesh and blood, nor can the flesh inherit the kingdom of heaven. The only way anyone can inherit the kingdom of heaven is through the transformation of the first death into the Spirit. All scripture supports this.

God honored the sacrifice of Jesus Christ's SINLESS flesh and blood, for it was substitutionally offered up on behalf of His elect children, for the propitiation of their sins. If Jesus was less than perfect, He would have only been a human martyr, and His sacrifice would have been an abomination in the eyes of God . . . and none of us would have a SAVIOR at all.